Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Predators match offer sheet to Shea Weber


  • Please log in to reply
120 replies to this topic

#21 ogreslayer

ogreslayer

    1st Line All-Star

  • HoF Booster
  • 1,958 posts
  • Location:Indianapolis

Posted 24 July 2012 - 02:56 PM

It will be very, very interesting to see how this plays out. Weber gets his payday, but is stuck in Nashville. If he was just trying to up his salary, then all is well. However, if he really wanted out and a solid chance at winning it all, unless things change drastically down there, he's screwed. Can't wait to see which scenario unfolds.

Getting stuck in Nashville with their self-imposed salary cap means Weber, while getting paid, takes up a much greater percentage of their cap hit & will be surrounded by much less talent than he would be with a team that spends to the cap obviously. Have to believe that either Nashville plans to change their spending habits (doubtful) or that they do plan on finding a trading partner in one year that can give them more than the 4 #1's they would have gotten if they hadn't matched.

#22 StormJH1

StormJH1

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 697 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 24 July 2012 - 02:57 PM

Wow, I don't know. Most people are going to see this as "Yay, Nashville kept a franchise player, Philly screwed up". I don't see this as a "win" for Nashville at all. From last year to this year, they have no Suter, and have to pay Weber significantly more with a burdensome long-term salary commitment. Plus, this whole "cloud" of "Where is Weber going?" hangs over the team all year again into the offseason.

Does anyone trust each other in this whole thing? Weber didn't trust Nashville mgmt to begin with, and they never paid him until they were absolutely forced to. The GM (and the fans) have a player that apparently wanted to play somewhere else because he signed an offer sheet with them.

Oh, and the Predators went from "promising young playoff team" to fighting for the 8th spot again with a solid goalie, ONE (not two) elite defensemen, no Radulov, and not much else.

#23 toby91_ca

toby91_ca

    Legend

  • Gold Booster
  • 8,447 posts

Posted 24 July 2012 - 02:58 PM

If Weber truly wanted out of Nashville, you would have to think he wouldn't have signed a 14-year offer sheet with another team. Rationale being that it woudl be close to 100% that Nashville woudl match and he'd then have a 14 year contract with Nashville (doens't mean he's stuck there for 14 years, but you know....).

If Weber thought he'd be getting out of Nashville by signing an offer sheet, he got bad advice. From everything I've heard though, he has no issues with Nashville.

#24 StormJH1

StormJH1

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 697 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:04 PM

Getting stuck in Nashville with their self-imposed salary cap means Weber, while getting paid, takes up a much greater percentage of their cap hit & will be surrounded by much less talent than he would be with a team that spends to the cap obviously. Have to believe that either Nashville plans to change their spending habits (doubtful) or that they do plan on finding a trading partner in one year that can give them more than the 4 #1's they would have gotten if they hadn't matched.

I'm seeing a pattern here with the NHL where the fans and media uniformly seem to assume that something can't happen, and then it does because the players want it to. I think NHL players are evolving and learning to impose their will, not unlike what has happened with LeBron and the NBA.

Does anybody seriously think that Shea Weber cannot be traded after next July? Why, because of his contract? Minnesota just added TWO contracts of nearly the same size. What if Nashville is god-awful? What if Weber decides that he really doesn't want to play for Nashville and throws a hissy fit next summer. You're telling me there aren't other teams out there that would throw multiple #1's/prospects/NHL-ready talent for a 27-year old elite defenseman? The drama will play out for a third year in a row.

#25 BigWillieStyle

BigWillieStyle

    1st Line Sniper

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 777 posts
  • Location:Lapeer, MI

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:06 PM

Congrats to Canada on their acquisition of another (soon to be) team. Now where to put them????

#26 gcom007

gcom007

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,064 posts
  • Location:Nashville, TN

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:07 PM

If Weber truly wanted out of Nashville, you would have to think he wouldn't have signed a 14-year offer sheet with another team. Rationale being that it woudl be close to 100% that Nashville woudl match and he'd then have a 14 year contract with Nashville (doens't mean he's stuck there for 14 years, but you know....).

If Weber thought he'd be getting out of Nashville by signing an offer sheet, he got bad advice. From everything I've heard though, he has no issues with Nashville.


Exactly. Perhaps he was excited about Philly, but if he had no interest in being in Nashville for too long, he wouldn't have signed the deal. It's incredibly simple logic. He may be surprised, but unless he's a total moron which I highly doubt, he can't be shocked.

On another note, does anyone know what the official rules are about trades in relation to cash being involved? If Nashville traded him next year, could they ask for the amount of the signing bonus to be part of the trade from the other team? I'm not too well read on all of the rules and I never really knew how that element worked.
-Elliot...does not panic.

#27 StormJH1

StormJH1

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 697 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:09 PM

If Weber truly wanted out of Nashville, you would have to think he wouldn't have signed a 14-year offer sheet with another team. Rationale being that it woudl be close to 100% that Nashville woudl match and he'd then have a 14 year contract with Nashville (doens't mean he's stuck there for 14 years, but you know....).

If Weber thought he'd be getting out of Nashville by signing an offer sheet, he got bad advice. From everything I've heard though, he has no issues with Nashville.

I'm not sure. Your points are well-taken, but he did have connections on that PHI team, such as Timonen and Hartnell. Perhaps he wanted to get paid and was willing to consider either NAS or PHI if it meant a long-term deal.

And the fact remains that the length and dollar amount of a contract, under this CBA, mean nothing in terms of guaranteeing that a player remains with the team that signed him. See Richards, Mike; Carter, Jeff; Luongo, Roberto, et al. As long as a player is good enough that SOMEBODY in the league is willing to pay his pre-negotiated deal, that player can and will be moved if it doesn't work out, if the team takes a nosedive in the standings (or the financial columns), or if the player becomes some type of locker room cancer in that environment.

Weber had two offseasons and never agreed to a single multi-year contract offer presented by Nashville, while agreeing on paper to play for Philadelphia for 14 years. This is not over - it's only over for now.

Edited by StormJH1, 24 July 2012 - 03:10 PM.


#28 Z Winged Dangler

Z Winged Dangler

    Part 3: Return of the Hammer Hands

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,175 posts
  • Location:Winnipeg, MB

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:09 PM

It will be very, very interesting to see how this plays out. Weber gets his payday, but is stuck in Nashville. If he was just trying to up his salary, then all is well. However, if he really wanted out and a solid chance at winning it all, unless things change drastically down there, he's screwed. Can't wait to see which scenario unfolds.

exactly, and with the money situation in Nashville, i have a hard time believing that they can afford to fork out 26mil next year to pay him. not the kind of guy you want to let go, and personally i think Weber's too intense to slack off for a year, but if he wants out next summer, then the Preds pay him all that money for 1 year and then lose him anyways. they better hope that they get a good haul in return for him if he requests a trade and don't publicly post his choices of destinations.

Free darkmanx!

 

"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag


#29 gcom007

gcom007

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,064 posts
  • Location:Nashville, TN

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:12 PM

And on a personal note, I'm kinda glad Nashville kept him as I'll likely be moving to Nashville for a bit next month. I'll likely go to some Predators games while down there, so it'll be nice to see Weber out there. And while I'll remain a die hard Wings fan, I'll be fine with cheering Nashville on when they're not playing the Wings. As much as I hated losing in the 1st round, I felt much better about losing to that Nashville team than I did the Sharks. All things considered, I think Nashville's a tough, respectable team on the ice. It's easy to say that they'll have problems this year, but given our roster right now and the seasons we're coming off of when our roster was far, far better, who are we to talk?
-Elliot...does not panic.

#30 Hairy Lime

Hairy Lime

    4th Line Grinder

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 276 posts

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:14 PM

Does this mean that The Flyers now go after B. Ryan, maybe for no other reason than to match The Rangers? They wanted a defenseman, but I hear that they are also interested in Ryan.

#31 StormJH1

StormJH1

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 697 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:18 PM

Exactly. Perhaps he was excited about Philly, but if he had no interest in being in Nashville for too long, he wouldn't have signed the deal. It's incredibly simple logic. He may be surprised, but unless he's a total moron which I highly doubt, he can't be shocked.

On another note, does anyone know what the official rules are about trades in relation to cash being involved? If Nashville traded him next year, could they ask for the amount of the signing bonus to be part of the trade from the other team? I'm not too well read on all of the rules and I never really knew how that element worked.

Here's the problem with that logic - in either scenario, Weber can force a move to another team after one year. So it's really choice between these two scenarios:

(A) Signing a 14-year deal now, as a 26-year old RFA whose value really could not possibly be any higher than it already is, OR

(B) Agreeing to a one-year deal (again) with NAS, or doing arbitration...playing out the season on what could very well be a much crappier Nashville team without his trusted defensive partner (Suter) who helped him to achieve the offensive numbers he put up, and risking serious injury for an entire season (ACL tear, severe concussion, torn rotator cuff from slamming faces into the glass too hard, etc.), which would cost him tens of millions of dollars as a 27-year old UFA next season.

Now, given those two choices, isn't Option A (the "pay me now" option) clearly the one with less risk? And again, if he doesn't want to play for Nashville at some point, there are ways he could make that happen. Heck, it may happen anyway if Nashville draws 8,000 a game and decides it can't afford his 14-year salary.

Also (and this is a critical point), if the argument is that Weber was just "using" Philadelphia to get Nashville to pay him...(a) why did he and his agent sign a poison-pill, front-loaded offer sheet with the intended effect of crippling NAS with a matching offer; and (b) why would his agent talk trash against Nashville and its GM, if his intent all along was to help his client get a long-term deal with the Predators? I don't buy it. A lot of the same people here call Fedorov a "traitor" for signing the '98 offer sheet with Carolina, but are willing to view Weber's offer sheet as a mere negotiating tactic, or even a sign of loyalty. That makes no sense.

Edited by StormJH1, 24 July 2012 - 03:26 PM.


#32 Hatethedrake!

Hatethedrake!

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,496 posts
  • Location:Ontario

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:22 PM

No surprise here. I expect Holmgren to aggressively go after Ryan now.
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#33 gcom007

gcom007

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,064 posts
  • Location:Nashville, TN

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:24 PM

I'm not sure. Your points are well-taken, but he did have connections on that PHI team, such as Timonen and Hartnell. Perhaps he wanted to get paid and was willing to consider either NAS or PHI if it meant a long-term deal.

And the fact remains that the length and dollar amount of a contract, under this CBA, mean nothing in terms of guaranteeing that a player remains with the team that signed him. See Richards, Mike; Carter, Jeff; Luongo, Roberto, et al. As long as a player is good enough that SOMEBODY in the league is willing to pay his pre-negotiated deal, that player can and will be moved if it doesn't work out, if the team takes a nosedive in the standings (or the financial columns), or if the player becomes some type of locker room cancer in that environment.

Weber had two offseasons and never agreed to a single multi-year contract offer presented by Nashville, while agreeing on paper to play for Philadelphia for 14 years. This is not over - it's only over for now.


Unless Nashville can recoup cash on a trade in a year to cover that signing bonus (again, not sure what the rules are on cash serving as part of a trade), this is certainly over for a little bit. If Nashville wasn't interested in getting more than a year out of him, I don't think they would have matched with that signing bonus, that is, again, unless they could be compensated for it from a trading partner in a year. If they can trade him next year and demand that their trading partner includes compensation for the signing bonus in the deal, then he'll be dealt next summer at the first possible chance. If not, he'll be a Predator for awhile.

Whether or not he was willing to sign multi-year deals with Nashville in years past is inconsequential so long as he's an RFA and Nashville holds his rights. Weber and his agent were fully aware of this when they signed that offer sheet, make no mistake about it. They might've wanted to land in Philly, but they knew there was as good of a chance that they'd stay in Nashville. That's how the system works.
-Elliot...does not panic.

#34 Crymson

Crymson

    Ninjelephant

  • Gold Booster
  • 11,032 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO, USA

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:25 PM

No surprise here. I expect Holmgren to aggressively go after Ryan now.


The Flyers went after Weber as a replacement for Pronger. They do not have any great need for more top-six forwards.

#35 StormJH1

StormJH1

    2nd Line Scorer

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 697 posts
  • Location:Twin Cities, MN

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:33 PM

Unless Nashville can recoup cash on a trade in a year to cover that signing bonus (again, not sure what the rules are on cash serving as part of a trade), this is certainly over for a little bit. If Nashville wasn't interested in getting more than a year out of him, I don't think they would have matched with that signing bonus, that is, again, unless they could be compensated for it from a trading partner in a year. If they can trade him next year and demand that their trading partner includes compensation for the signing bonus in the deal, then he'll be dealt next summer at the first possible chance. If not, he'll be a Predator for awhile.

Whether or not he was willing to sign multi-year deals with Nashville in years past is inconsequential so long as he's an RFA and Nashville holds his rights. Weber and his agent were fully aware of this when they signed that offer sheet, make no mistake about it. They might've wanted to land in Philly, but they knew there was as good of a chance that they'd stay in Nashville. That's how the system works.

I'm also waiting to see if Weber's contract is actually valid under the CBA. I suspect that it will be upheld given that the NHL only struck down one deal (Kovy) and that involved a "tail" contract extending to age 44, but there are all kinds of legitimate arguments that this deal circumvents the CBA. Then again, since Nashville can't even really afford to be at the Cap, it "feels" less suspicious with them paying it, as opposed to a team like Philly.

I'm still not exactly clear how this works that we don't have a functioning CBA for the upcoming season, yet teams are able to hand out 14-year deals without any idea what will happen to the whole compensation structure only weeks (or months) after the ink on the contract has dried.

#36 Esquire

Esquire

    Fix up, Look sharp.

  • HoF Booster
  • 1,268 posts
  • Location:Whitby, ON

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:34 PM

The Preds just slammed Weber's head into the glass. Love it.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#37 gcom007

gcom007

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,064 posts
  • Location:Nashville, TN

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:34 PM

Here's the problem with that logic - in either scenario, Weber can force a move to another team after one year. So it's really choice between these two scenarios:

(A) Signing a 14-year deal now, as a 26-year old RFA whose value really could not possibly be any higher than it already is, OR

(B) Agreeing to a one-year deal (again) with NAS, or doing arbitration...playing out the season on what could very well be a much crappier Nashville team without his trusted defensive partner (Suter) who helped him to achieve the offensive numbers he put up, and risking serious injury for an entire season (ACL tear, severe concussion, torn rotator cuff from slamming faces into the glass too hard, etc.), which would cost him tens of millions of dollars as a 27-year old UFA next season.

Now, given those two choices, isn't Option A (the "pay me now" option) clearly the one with less risk? And again, if he doesn't want to play for Nashville at some point, there are ways he could make that happen. Heck, it may happen anyway if Nashville draws 8,000 a game and decides it can't afford his 14-year salary.


Sure, there are ways he can try to force his hand, but If he sits out, he can just be suspended without pay too. Nashville doesn't have to move him and likely won't without a killer deal on the table.

And sure, "pay me now" looks better, but it doesn't change the fact that there are rules and consequences for breaking them. I'm not saying he was dumb for signing the deal at all, I'm saying that if he absolutely had no interest in playing for Nashville, he wouldn't have signed it knowing full well that Nashville could and likely would match it.

And isn't it also logical that Nashville has talked to him a fair amount this summer about whether he's willing to stick it out in Nashville or not? Again, barring the ability for cash to be part of a trade next year, I think Weber's a Predator for a minimum of 3-4 years. If they can demand cash to be part of any trade next year, than yes, this isn't over at all and he's gone next summer. Nashville still wins. They keep a star for another year when they really need him and have much more time to negotiate a deal that would benefit them long run.
-Elliot...does not panic.

#38 13dangledangle

13dangledangle

    1st Line All-Star

  • Silver Booster
  • 1,793 posts
  • Location:Port Hope, Ont.

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:43 PM

Poile kinda screwed himself with the whole handling of Weber this year and last year. It took Holmgren's offer sheet for the Predators to actually act like a franchise that's willing to spend money for its franchise players.


This is what I was thinking, exactly. They obviously would not have the feeling have/had the past little bit if they would've just made the boys on that team feel like they were that team. I guess he's not that kind of GM. For example I look to see Flip locked up soon, these aren't the types of players to let fall to the wayside.
....Ladies and Gentlemen Jimmy "F%$*ing" Howard.

#39 Hatethedrake!

Hatethedrake!

    1st Line All-Star

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,496 posts
  • Location:Ontario

Posted 24 July 2012 - 03:45 PM

The Flyers went after Weber as a replacement for Pronger. They do not have any great need for more top-six forwards.


That is not how Philly works. If there is a big name available then Philly is always in on it. It's always been that way. It always will be.
  • Nev likes this
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams

#40 brett

brett

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,974 posts
  • Location:NJ

Posted 24 July 2012 - 04:06 PM

the preds did say they would match any offer sheet so i am not surprised





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users