193 replies to this topic

[haroldsnepsts]

Maybe Harold meant that a change of scenery, and an attitude adjustment by playing in Detroit alongside a fellow Russian with a great attitude, solid work ethic, and a plethora of talent would get the most outta Semin,,,Instead of a 60 to 70 pts guy - Semin becomes a 85 plus pts guy in the Motor City?

Exactly.

Of course it could go bad. But no one is even interested or excited at the possibility of Semin on Datsyuk's wing?

I wasn't dying for Semin to be a Wing, I'm just a little surprised Holland wasn't even interested. Like I said, I'm hoping it's because he still has a trick or two up his sleeve.

[jamcar1984]

One year deal, absolutely zero risk. Worst case scenario is he sucks (which I doubt, playing on Pav's wing). Best case scenario is he returns to being a 40 goal scoring sniper. Sure is going to suck sitting on all of that cap space with nobody to sign (even if we do sign Doan which we probably won't, we still could have afforded both). The fact that we showed almost no interest is baffling given Semin's potential. I know Holland has pursued all the top guys this summer and unfortunately struck out on all of them. The thing that pisses me off is the lack of foresight for the seasons leading up to this. Did he really think Nick was going to play forever? If all of us knew that Stuart was going back to California after this season, I'm sure Holland had some sort of idea. I really hope I'm wrong because I love this team but as it stands now I just don't see us as a contender. We're pretty much the same team as 08 just 4 years older with no Lidstrom and Stuart. It sucks.

[Valas19]

One year deal, absolutely zero risk. Worst case scenario is he sucks (which I doubt, playing on Pav's wing). Best case scenario is he returns to being a 40 goal scoring sniper. Sure is going to suck sitting on all of that cap space with nobody to sign (even if we do sign Doan which we probably won't, we still could have afforded both). The fact that we showed almost no interest is baffling given Semin's potential. I know Holland has pursued all the top guys this summer and unfortunately struck out on all of them. The thing that pisses me off is the lack of foresight for the seasons leading up to this. Did he really think Nick was going to play forever? If all of us knew that Stuart was going back to California after this season, I'm sure Holland had some sort of idea. I really hope I'm wrong because I love this team but as it stands now I just don't see us as a contender. We're pretty much the same team as 08 just 4 years older with no Lidstrom and Stuart. It sucks.

New guy knows the score.

[Crymson]

You're not even talking about the deal, you're seriously arguing my using the phrase reclamation project? Holy hell what won't you argue about?

That's exactly what I was arguing: your idea that he could be a reclamation project the likes of Holland's others, such as Cleary, Samuelsson and the sort; the likes of those players are Holland's typical reclamation projects, not high-skill players who need to be reclaimed from subpar effort and poor attitude. Semin is not a player who is struggling to maintain a career in the NHL. He is a player who is trying to secure himself a fat contract.

When you consider his talent level and the stink he's got on him right now, Semin absolutely could've been a reclamation project in that Holland could've gotten him for not much. Overpayment in salary sure, but on a one year deal and they have the cap room. They wouldn't have give up a ton of players or lock him up for a decade. And it has the potential upside of him turning it around in Detroit and becoming part of the team going forward for years to come.

A $7m deal would have instantly made him the highest-paid player on the team. That's no reclamation project, and handing that sort of salary to a guy who has such a poor reputation and so much to prove would have been an insult to others on the team, not to mention that poison in the locker room is always a terrible thing. And Semin's potential to be a cancer in the locker room is almost certainly why Holland avoided the guy; Holland does not sign players who are risky in that area.

Giving Cleary a small contract after a tryout is very different from giving a fat paycheck to a guy who has a well-known history of laziness and petulance. One is no-risk. The other is not.

Edited by Crymson, 26 July 2012 - 07:42 PM.

[GMRwings1983]

Remember how everyone felt OK after the Nashville loss, because we'd have plenty of money to spend on all these big free agents left and right?

[The Axe]

Holland struck out looking on Suter/Parise. But i actually applaud him for not compounding that mistake by signing inferior players for similar money.

[frankgrimes]

Remember how everyone felt OK after the Nashville loss, because we'd have plenty of money to spend on all these big free agents left and right?

Well you know at the time, most thought we might get Suter and Parise. Though I knew fully well, finding help outside of these two would be an incredible tough job. 7 million for Semin? wow

[LeftWinger]

Holland is curled up in the fetal position sucking his thumb crying out "why wont anyone take less money to come to.Detroit anymore!?!?"

Holland....if you dont land Doan and trade for Ryan, you need to quit.

[GMRwings1983]

Well you know at the time, most thought we might get Suter and Parise. Though I knew fully well, finding help outside of these two would be an incredible tough job. 7 million for Semin? wow

I don't know what would even be called an overpayment anymore? Seems like everyone is getting overpaid.

Maybe the Wings should start "overpaying" too.

Holland is curled up in the fetal position sucking his thumb crying out "why wont anyone take less money to come to.Detroit anymore!?!?"

Holland....if you dont land Doan and trade for Ryan, you need to quit.

Holland is lucky guys like Datsyuk and Filppula are willing to get paid less than what they deserve. I should add Kronwall to that list as well.

Maybe they've spoiled Kenny into making this a cheapskate franchise. Start paying the bucks Holland. They're not even yours.

Edited by GMRwings1983, 26 July 2012 - 08:41 PM.

[Drake_Marcus]

The very simple fact is that $7m was just given to a fellow who has scored in the mid-50s in the past two seasons, had four points in 14 games last postseason, and has a history of laziness and poor attitude.

Exactly.

Poor Pavel. He'll never have the sniper unless you count Franzen.

When it's all said and done I'll always wonder how much better he would have been with a Kovy or Semin type player on his wing.

I miss Hossa!

It's an insult to compare the Semin of the last 2 years to Kovy or Hossa. Holland would have gladly handed 7 mil to either of those two. There's a reason why the best Semin could do was the freaking Hurricanes.

[b.shanafan14]

I don't know what would even be called an overpayment anymore? Seems like everyone is getting overpaid.

Maybe the Wings should start "overpaying" too.

Holland is lucky guys like Datsyuk and Filppula are willing to get paid less than what they deserve. I should add Kronwall to that list as well.

Maybe they've spoiled Kenny into making this a cheapskate franchise. Start paying the bucks Holland. They're not even yours.

This. We can offer what players are "worth" all over the place, feel that we "tried", but at the end of the day, we have nothing to show for this off-season... or last off-season... or the off-season before that... The cap has been climbing, the Wings capspace has been blowing up, and still, nothing.

Semin signs for big money, but no term, so no risk and yet, nothing because we were waiting on Doan. And surprise surprise, Wings are out of the Doan bidding because its gotten to high. Imagine that, half the teams in the league courting and waiting on one guy and he is too expensive? Golly...

[Drake_Marcus]

Holland is curled up in the fetal position sucking his thumb crying out "why wont anyone take less money to come to.Detroit anymore!?!?"

Holland....if you dont land Doan and trade for Ryan, you need to quit.

There's nothing funnier than listening to you whine about Holland not paying Semin 7 million. You're the one who bitched and moaned about Hudler and laughed that Calgary paid him 4 million a year.

Hudler produced 25g/50pts and is getting 4 million a year.

Semin produced 21g/54pts and is getting 7 million a year.... all while being a drama queen last year who was benched multiple times for not making a big enough effort on the ice.

Oh, and on top of that Semin makes Franzen look like a gritty work-horse. But you'd gladly make him the highest paid player on the team ...

This. We can offer what players are "worth" all over the place, feel that we "tried", but at the end of the day, we have nothing to show for this off-season... or last off-season... or the off-season before that... The cap has been climbing, the Wings capspace has been blowing up, and still, nothing.

Semin signs for big money, but no term, so no risk and yet, nothing because we were waiting on Doan. And surprise surprise, Wings are out of the Doan bidding because its gotten to high. Imagine that, half the teams in the league courting and waiting on one guy and he is too expensive? Golly...

You do realize that once you sign a guy for way more than he's worth you can't legitimately pay the rest of your team fair-market value when their contracts are up, right? If Holland breaks the salary structure to bring in someone who isn't a bonefide superstar he's f***ed when Datsyuk, Filppula, Smith and Nyquist are up for re-signing.

[GMRwings1983]

You do realize that once you sign a guy for way more than he's worth you can't legitimately pay the rest of your team fair-market value when their contracts are up, right? If Holland breaks the salary structure to bring in someone who isn't a bonefide superstar he's f***ed when Datsyuk, Filppula, Smith and Nyquist are up for re-signing.

Well, he did get Kronwall for cheap when he re-signed last year. Like I said, Holland has been spoiled by players taking less money to stay with this franchise.

He expects everyone to do the same, especially when other teams are offering those players huge contracts. Not gonna happen.

[Drake_Marcus]

But the Suter deal could've been exactly that, and Holland made the offer.

A one year deal for Semin is among the lower risk contracts you could get.

Like I said, I'm just surprised and a little confused Holland wasn't even interested. Just seeing what Semin could do with Datsyuk and on the PP seems like enough incentive to at least kick the tires a little.

If he stinks it up, then it's money lost and some cap room that right now looks like it's not getting used anyway. Unless Holland's still got a trick up his sleeve.

It's 100% about salary structure. Holland will be negotiating with a few guys on extensions this year and that would be really tough to do if you just signed a guy with a terrible rep and hilariously declining production to the highest cap hit on the entire team...

[GMRwings1983]

Double post.

Edited by GMRwings1983, 26 July 2012 - 08:59 PM.

[b.shanafan14]

You do realize that once you sign a guy for way more than he's worth you can't legitimately pay the rest of your team fair-market value when their contracts are up, right? If Holland breaks the salary structure to bring in someone who isn't a bonefide superstar he's f***ed when Datsyuk, Filppula, Smith and Nyquist are up for re-signing.

If the Wings had offered $6 mil for one-year two weeks ago, Semin would be here, but that's just an opinion.

I agree with setting the market for your team, because that's what I said when we signed Ericsson for too much, which didn't seem to phase Holland then. As far as Semin, there is a big difference between bidding on a rental with capspace to burn, and signing a legitimate contract with term. Datsyuk will get a raise, most likely significant given how the cap has climbed. Filppula, same thing. Smith and Nyquist could be anything from top forward/d-man to roster footnotes, the jury is still out.

I think the Wings are right to drop out of Doan because its going to be too much cash and term, but I've said that for some time now. Semin on the other hand would have been an experiment, not a precedent.

[Drake_Marcus]

Well, he did get Kronwall for cheap when he re-signed last year. Like I said, Holland has been spoiled by players taking less money to stay with this franchise.

He expects everyone to do the same, especially when other teams are offering those players huge contracts. Not gonna happen.

Holland's not the only guy who refuses to pay way over market value... all of the legitimate contenders feel that way. Look at who's signed these silly contracts so far... all of the teams are jokes. Pitts, Det, Bos, SJ, Chi, LA, who else? None of those teams have been willing to take on the terrible contracts or cave to the demands of guys like Howeson. The Rangers didn't get Nash cheaply but they got him a hell of a lot cheaper than we would have (anyone who thought Nash would get traded within the Central Division is nuts anyway). The Wings offer for Nash was reportedly a significant one and included 4 players (two of whom had to legitimate roster players based on the minimum requirements set out by Howeson) and he didn't even respond wiht a counter-offer. Guys like Left will say it's because Holland lowballed Howeson but that's utter bulls***. In negotiations you give a counter-offer when you get lowballed unless it is insultingly low and if it was there wouldn't have been reports that it was a significant offer from insiders (no one in there right mind is going to leak that info if they made a s***ty offer just to have the Jackets leak that it was a terrible one... well not unless they love dealing with annoying reporters for months, so I guess only Torts would do that).

[GMRwings1983]

Holland's not the only guy who refuses to pay way over market value... all of the legitimate contenders feel that way. Look at who's signed these silly contracts so far... all of the teams are jokes. Pitts, Det, Bos, SJ, Chi, LA, who else? None of those teams have been willing to take on the terrible contracts or cave to the demands of guys like Howeson. The Rangers didn't get Nash cheaply but they got him a hell of a lot cheaper than we would have (anyone who thought Nash would get traded within the Central Division is nuts anyway). The Wings offer for Nash was reportedly a significant one and included 4 players (two of whom had to legitimate roster players based on the minimum requirements set out by Howeson) and he didn't even respond wiht a counter-offer. Guys like Left will say it's because Holland lowballed Howeson but that's utter bulls***. In negotiations you give a counter-offer when you get lowballed unless it is insultingly low and if it was there wouldn't have been reports that it was a significant offer from insiders (no one in there right mind is going to leak that info if they made a s***ty offer just to have the Jackets leak that it was a terrible one... well not unless they love dealing with annoying reporters for months, so I guess only Torts would do that).

Well, I'd say all those teams you listed have a better top 6 right now than we have. I can see why the others didn't make moves, but we should have.

[Drake_Marcus]

The other thing to realize here is that this team has a whole lot more to worry about than a top six winger. Datsyuk and Zetterberg are the only superstars left on this team and both are leaving the window for their prime years. The last thing we should want is to become the Leafs of the last decade who spent ten years carefully avoiding any shot at a top 4 pick while wasting money making the team just good enough to get eliminated in the 1st round.

Well, I'd say all those teams you listed have a better top 6 right now than we have. I can see why the others didn't make moves, but we should have.

Sure they do, but if any of the contracts recently signed were legitimately competitive you'd see those top teams winning out. The only way garbage teams like Carolina and Minny get top free agents is by paying out of their nose... and this year it's been pretty pronounced.

With the contracts Parise and Suter signed in Minny you've got to think other teams got calls from the agents for those two with a chance to match or top it and no one did... that speaks volumes.

[b.shanafan14]

Holland's not the only guy who refuses to pay way over market value... all of the legitimate contenders feel that way. Look at who's signed these silly contracts so far... all of the teams are jokes. Pitts, Det, Bos, SJ, Chi, LA, who else? None of those teams have been willing to take on the terrible contracts or cave to the demands of guys like Howeson.

So we're not counting LA trading with Howson for Carter's blimped contract?