168 replies to this topic

[TheXym]

What about a second-tier type of honor like I believe Montreal and Toronto have for players? A ring of honor or something like that. Players like Fedorov, Osgood, Red Kelly, Black Jack Stewart, Vladimir Konstantinov, Larry Aurie (if they don't re-retire it), maybe Kris Draper, Kirk Maltby, John Ogrodnock, Mickey Redmond, etc. could get that recognition.

[Carman]

What about a second-tier type of honor like I believe Montreal and Toronto have for players? A ring of honor or something like that. Players like Fedorov, Osgood, Red Kelly, Black Jack Stewart, Vladimir Konstantinov, Larry Aurie (if they don't re-retire it), maybe Kris Draper, Kirk Maltby, John Ogrodnock, Mickey Redmond, etc. could get that recognition.

I like this idea, awards players that helped this franchise a lot, but not quite enough to be among the franchise elite.

[The Axe]

And a toe ring of courage for Boyd Devereaux, Cujo, and Lebda for effort.

[TheXym]

And a toe ring of courage for Boyd Devereaux, Cujo, and Lebda for effort.

In other words, you don't like the idea. Fair enough, though I wouldn't peg Cujo as low as those two.

[The Axe]

In other words, you don't like the idea. Fair enough, though I wouldn't peg Cujo as low as those two.

I like the idea! Its very cool.

[Doc Holliday]

I think having a second tier might be a slap in the face for some players. I think Feds will eventually deserve to have his number retired with the other greats. But I think there needs to be a little bit more of a grace period just on how the fans reacted to his leaving.

[StormJH1]

Glad to see the positive comments in here about Fedorov. Yes, I think he absolutely deserves the honor. The only reason they won't do it is this perception that it wouldn't mean anything to him because he's a selfish Russian.

That's BS. The great Yzerman was a one-way player who didn't even make the Playoffs every year before 91 and 5 showed up. He was an absolute superstar, a great playoff performer, and his numbers were suppressed by his defensive focus and the time he actually spent AS a defenseman. He also played right in the heart of the "Dead Puck" era and still put up MVP numbers.

I was talking with a Wild fan and told him that many Wings fans hate Fedorov because of the offer sheet and because he left in '03. He looked at me with bewilderment. "Theyre mad because of THAT? He was basically done by then, why did they want him then anyway?". I thought he had a point. To me it doesnt matter what was going on inside his head or that he played for other teams in the late years of his career. He didn't do that for more money. The Wings hijacked him from Russia during the end of the Cold War, and I think he earned the right to go determine where he wanted to play and live at the end. He was a great Red Wing, and Yzerman wouldn't have won 3 Cups without him.


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[The Axe]

Feds suffers from not-yzerman syndrome.

[GoWings!]

Sergei Fedorov was a great player. I could care less about celebrities/players' personalities. Business is the name of the game. He played second fiddle to Yzerman and rightfully so. But nevertheless he was a huge factor in those three championships. No one is Steve Yzerman though. So that's an unfair comparison. Always had to keep your eye on 91. Scotty Bowman even got him and Yzerman to start back checking more and then they started winning Cups with the defense first concept. Damn,I miss those days. I think he deserves it.

Edited by GoWings!, 01 August 2012 - 08:40 AM.

[St. Michael (the Red Wing)]

Feds suffers from not-yzerman syndrome.

Both were two completely different great players with all do respect.

Edited by St. Michael (the Red Wing), 01 August 2012 - 09:28 AM.

[Hatethedrake!]

The greatest Red Wing of all time is...Brent Gilchrist.

[Jedi]

Feds was such a back and forth player for me. There were times where I wanted to go out and buy his jersey, and then there were times where I would have buried that jersey in the back of my closet (had I bought one).

There was no doubting his talent, but there were times where I had to question his work ethic. Not unlike how I feel about Franzen now. But he's got his name on 3 Stanley Cups as a Red Wing, and I'll always remember him as a Wing first and foremost.

However, I don't think his career as a Wing would merit jersey retirement. Compare his tenure with the Wings with Lidstrom and Yzerman's. It just falls considerably short of that mark. Which is why I would love some kind of "Ring of Honor" with our new arena. I'd be advocate #1 for his number being honored that way.

[Ram]

To me, being held in the rafters in the Joe is an extreme honor that the organization bestows to only its most dedicated players.

Simply put, Sergei was one of my childhood heroes - he was simply amazing to watch. I idolized the way he played hockey, and his stats are a testimony to that. There is no doubt that the HOF will look at what he accomplished as far as numbers go and determine he is a strong candidate to get in.

But being in the rafters in the Joe is not all about numbers. It's about why you were a most meaningful piece to the important puzzle that makes up this beloved organization. Sergei means a heck of a lot to this team's history and the people that adored him in this city. But the rafters are reserved for royalty.

Just what I think. Go Wings.

[StormJH1]

To me, being held in the rafters in the Joe is an extreme honor that the organization bestows to only its most dedicated players.

Simply put, Sergei was one of my childhood heroes - he was simply amazing to watch. I idolized the way he played hockey, and his stats are a testimony to that. There is no doubt that the HOF will look at what he accomplished as far as numbers go and determine he is a strong candidate to get in.

But being in the rafters in the Joe is not all about numbers. It's about why you were a most meaningful piece to the important puzzle that makes up this beloved organization. Sergei means a heck of a lot to this team's history and the people that adored him in this city. But the rafters are reserved for royalty.

Just what I think. Go Wings.

As someone who disagrees and would retire his number, I can't take issue with a single thing you said, an entirely valid opinion.

That being said, if you are of that mindset, then there is no way Brendan Shanahan or Chris Osgood could possibly have their numbers retired either. As long as the Wings are consistent on that definition of "royalty", I could accept Yzerman and Lidstrom, only, as the Wings' definition of "royalty" for this recent era of success.

Also, if Yzerman and Lidstrom are the only current Wings players equivalent to Delvecchio, Lindsay, etc. up in the rafters, then I think you have a really hard time arguing that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are deserving of that honor, unless they win more Cups.

Part of the reason I struggle with this is you can look at guys like Delvecchio, Lindsay, Sawchuk, and these guys were definitely not the "best", or often even the "2nd best" player on their teams at that time, yet they are in the rafters. And you could argue that the 1950's Red Wings were a great team in an era where it was MUCH easier for one team to sustain success. The Wings ripped off 4 Cups in 12 seasons, and did it amongst 25 to 29 other NHL teams. There's no "right answer" to this, but I don't think you can diminish the value of guys like Fedorov simply because they weren't the "best" guy on a team that obviously needed a lot of really great players to succeed as they did.

[Opie]

Part of the reason I struggle with this is you can look at guys like Delvecchio, Lindsay, Sawchuk, and these guys were definitely not the "best", or often even the "2nd best" player on their teams at that time, yet they are in the rafters. And you could argue that the 1950's Red Wings were a great team in an era where it was MUCH easier for one team to sustain success. The Wings ripped off 4 Cups in 12 seasons, and did it amongst 25 to 29 other NHL teams. There's no "right answer" to this, but I don't think you can diminish the value of guys like Fedorov simply because they weren't the "best" guy on a team that obviously needed a lot of really great players to succeed as they did.

Sawchuk was the best netminder of his time, Ted was not only a great player who was part of one of the most productive lines in hockey, but was also a pioneer for player rights and put his own neck on the line by standing up for player rights, was huge in the forming of the NHLPA.

here is what you need to know about Alex:

**From his wiki page**

No player except Nicklas Lidströmin NHL history played more games with just the one team.

At the time of his retirement, he ranked second in nearly every significant offensive category in Red Wings history behind only Howe. He has since been passed in most of those categories by Steve Yzerman, but only Howe and Lidström have played more games as a Red Wing.

Edited by Opie, 01 August 2012 - 01:33 PM.

[hillbillywingsfan]

Feds suffers from not-yzerman syndrome.

Nah I think it was more Feds suffered from Semin syndrone at times...before it was known as Semin syndrone. Feds was test subject #1 =)

[vladdy16]

As someone who disagrees and would retire his number, I can't take issue with a single thing you said, an entirely valid opinion.

That being said, if you are of that mindset, then there is no way Brendan Shanahan or Chris Osgood could possibly have their numbers retired either. As long as the Wings are consistent on that definition of "royalty", I could accept Yzerman and Lidstrom, only, as the Wings' definition of "royalty" for this recent era of success.

Also, if Yzerman and Lidstrom are the only current Wings players equivalent to Delvecchio, Lindsay, etc. up in the rafters, then I think you have a really hard time arguing that Datsyuk and Zetterberg are deserving of that honor, unless they win more Cups.

Part of the reason I struggle with this is you can look at guys like Delvecchio, Lindsay, Sawchuk, and these guys were definitely not the "best", or often even the "2nd best" player on their teams at that time, yet they are in the rafters. And you could argue that the 1950's Red Wings were a great team in an era where it was MUCH easier for one team to sustain success. The Wings ripped off 4 Cups in 12 seasons, and did it amongst 25 to 29 other NHL teams. There's no "right answer" to this, but I don't think you can diminish the value of guys like Fedorov simply because they weren't the "best" guy on a team that obviously needed a lot of really great players to succeed as they did.

Agreed, the others mentioned don't deserve the honor either. Yet.

Yzerman and Lidstrom bled red and white. Not only is Fedorov's work ethic able to be called into question, his loyalty is as well. I don't fault him for signing the Carolina offer sheet - I do fault him for holding the Wings hostage by holding out and making his displeasure known on the ice. He always came across as a prima donna, which is probably why so many are against his number being retired. That's not the Red Wings way.

[hillbillywingsfan]

Agreed, the others mentioned don't deserve the honor either. Yet.

Yzerman and Lidstrom bled red and white. Not only is Fedorov's worth ethic able to be called into question, his loyalty is as well. I don't fault him for signing the Carolina offer sheet - I do fault him for holding the Wings hostage by holding out and making his displeasure known on the ice. He always came across as a prima donna, which is probably why so many are against his number being retired. That's not the Red Wings way.

Right here in a nut shell.

[LeftWinger]

Although stat-wise and how much he meant to this club pretty much makes him deserve the #91 in the rafters, the fact(s) that he left twice (for all intents and purposes) will pretty much guarantee he won't get that honor...I am not even sure Ilitch will take the #91 out of circulation. Martin Frk does wear #91 and if he is all he is cracked up to be, that could be the guy to wear it...

[Seraph]

Yzerman and Lidstrom, yes. Even Lidstrom probably not for a while. Feds, Shanny, Z, and D, no.

That's how hard it is to get in the rafters in my opinion. It's kind of surprising to me people are throwing around so many different names.