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datterberg1340

Our Current Defense / What Holland Can Do *merged

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Our defense, as it stands right now looks something like this...

Kronwall / Ericsson

Quincey / White

Smith / Kindl

We obviously need to add a 7th defenseman, but who should it be?...

There are still a lot of remaining UFA defensemen, however for the most part they lack skill, youth or durability. Some of the available options include Pavel Kubina, Michal Rozsival, Jaroslav Spacek, Milan Jurcina, Carlo Colaiacovo, Scott Hannan, Brett Clark, Matt Gilroy, Chris Campoli, Kurtis Foster, Cam Barker...

Not an overly impressive list, although a couple are definitely worth a look at this point. If Ken Holland does throw an offer at one of these players chances are that player will play above and beyond expectations. For whatever reason when players pull that red and white jersey with the winged wheel over their head they play at the highest level imaginable.

Signing one of the above UFA's is a viable option, however I think the trade route is the more likely way to go, if nothing else because of the abundance of forwards on our roster.

Our forwards, once Abby is signed looks something like this...

Filppula / Datsyuk / Franzen

Nyquist / Zetterberg / Samuelsson

Bertuzzi / Helm / Brunner

Cleary / Abdelkader / Tootoo

Miller / Eaves / Mursak / Emmerton

We have 16 forwards with just two on a two-way contract being able to be sent down to Grand Rapids (Gustiv Nyquist and Damien Brunner) two of which are expected to make the big club out of training camp. We clearly need to shed a couple forwards, but who should it be?...

My personal opinion on players that are expendable are...

Franzen (streaky player that can be a real game changer, that would have the highest return value)

Miller / Eaves (great role players that are valuable to every team, that would have a decent return value)

Mursak / Emmerton (players that we don't necessarily need, that could fourish with a different team)

There are a few defensemen that have been rumoured to be on the move. This list includes Keith Yandle, Jay Bouwmeester, PK Subban, Dan Boyle, Mark Streit... Rumors are just that, so chances are some, if not all of these players will remian with their current teams. Sure, some are worth a phone call but I just don't see any of these players playing in Detroit next season. The most likely would probably be JayBo but I think that is a long shot as well.

None of this changes the fact that we need someone to fill out our blueline. So why not go after someone that will not require so much in return. One player in particular that I would love Kenny to go after would be Travis Hamonic. The kid is just 21 years old with two years under his belt over in Long Island. In those two years he has put up reasonable number on a weak Islanders team (135 Games Played, 7 Goals, 43 Assists for 50 Points) He's a big body at 6'2", 210 lbs. and he loves to use his big frame to his advantage (288 Hits and 275 Blocked Shots) and he's a right shot that we desperately need on our blueline.

I would love to have this kid, but am I being a little naive thinking that we could get him for a package something like Cory Emmerton, Jan Mursak and a later round pick (anywhere from 5th - 7th)...?

I think a pairing of Brendan Smith and Travis Hamonic would be absolutely lethal in a couple years...

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*Puts time machine back to 07-08*

During our 3 cups look at our top lines, no yzerman, fedorov, shanahan, hull, or robitaille. We don't have those now, big trouble ahead.

Last time I checked - solid defense/goaltending wins :stanley:

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He should make another thread about it.

Honestly, though, there's not a ton of value on the market and the available trade options are limited. I like Roszival, Colaicavo, and am actually really interested in the idea of Barker - albeit only if he comes dirt cheap.

I don't think that Subban is a realistic option, I'm not sure he'd fit into the organization well since he likes to be flashy and showy, which I'm fine with, but I imagine is a turn off for some of the brass. Beyond that, I don't think he's truly available.

Boyle would be a good offensive plug, but still doesn't give us that top-tier guy we'd all love to get. That said, the only person I see doing that is Yandle and he's already been discussed ad naseum.

Obviously, Holland and Co. will do something, but I imagine we likely go into the season with Kronwall, White, and Quincey as our top 3 defensemen.

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i find a bit of a dichotomy in all the discussions about defense. to me, the worry that a lot of fans have goes like this: "our defense has been fairly bad the last few years and now we've lost half our top 6 in the last 2 offseasons. so this year we will totally be screwed!"

but here is what i think we need to consider: maybe the people we lost were the problem. maybe they were the weaker links defensively? and yes, i am even including lidstrom in that. because with all due respect to him, in his own end he had dropped off the last couple years. he was amazing on the PP the last few years and those great numbers helped mask the slide in his own end IMO. if you think back to the super embarrassing goal in game 4 against the preds where 3 guys chased the puck into the corner and left 2 guys wide open in front of the net, it was nick that left his man to chase; thats something you would have never seen from nick in his prime. please note i am not trying to pick on him specifically, but i know that if i accuse nick of poor play without providing an example, that i will get totally shelled. i will probably get totally shelled anyway.

but my point is this: we lost rafalski, stuart, and lidstrom. out of those 3, the only one i would say was effective in his own end before leaving was nick. rafalski was never a defensive specialist and was replaced by white. to me thats probably an upgrade in our own end. stuart really lacked any drive the last 1-2 years, so i honestly think quincey can replace him rather aptly assuming he gets his head out of his ass this coming season. so that just leaves nick. he is a player that could never be replaced, so that will just be through other players stepping up. kronwall has to continue to make strides as a top pairing guy. ericsson has to finally earn his contract and become a top 4 guy. smith has to come in and prove he is an nhl'er and show that he will be top 4 in the future. and kindl has to prove he can play every day in the nhl and contribute. thats how you replace nick. but as i said, i think in our own end it might not be as hard as i think nick excelled so much in the offensive aspects in his last few years.

i would have loved to get suter. it would have allowed guys to slot in a lot better. but maybe the changes we have made will end up for the better? maybe its time we finally put young guys in a position to succeed in a make or break type situation. at least if a guy like kindl fails we can finally know.

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if we can't land a top pairing guy, i think we just go with what we have. only sign a veteran if he is there to be #7. i think we need to give our guys a chance to step up. we need to give them more than a few preseason games. we need to give smith and kindl their chance to play every game. we need to give ericsson the chance to play top 4 and earn his contract. if we go signing a veteran guy, all it will do is cause us to second guess every time a young guy makes a mistake.

to me, thats the exact mistake we made with quincey. we only gave him these short little windows to perform. once he went to LA, he showed that if got minutes, he could play. while we certainly cant just give guys minutes because we want them to succeed, we also have to give them fair chances. i dont feel we've done that in that past because of our love for bringing in veterans. its time to find our next generation of players. sink or swim; s*** or get off the pot.

then if half the season goes by and someone isnt living up to expectations, thats when we bring someone in. but give them a decent chance not just training camp.

Edited by dobbles

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Calgary is more likely to part with Babchuk than JBo and Yandle probably won't be traded unless a d-man goes back the other way. So, I wouldn't really consider either of them an option.

More likely, Holland will wait until after the CBA is worked out and probably partway into the season to better evualute the team.

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I would hardly call Franzen "expendable".

He is tradeable, yes, but if the Wings lose him to improve the D, they have literally NO one to replace those goals. Streakiness aside, 25-30 goals is not easy to replace. Its not like the Wings signed an elite scorer this off season.

Unless a lot of scoring is coming back the other way in a trade, the Wings need Franzen this year.

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I would hardly call Franzen "expendable".

He is tradeable, yes, but if the Wings lose him to improve the D, they have literally NO one to replace those goals. Streakiness aside, 25-30 goals is not easy to replace. Its not like the Wings signed an elite scorer this off season.

Unless a lot of scoring is coming back the other way in a trade, the Wings need Franzen this year.

Finally, somebody that agrees with me. Franzen may float at times but he is good for 25+ goals a season. I think that he will have a big year and put up 40 this year. He is certainly capable.

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I think that he will have a big year and put up 40 this year. He is certainly capable.

Capable, but not engaged enough. He SHOULD be a 35-40 goal scorer consistently given his skills and linemate. Instead, expect more of the same: scoring in bunches followed by long droughts in both production and effort, maybe some time spent injured, at least one odd excuse in the media along the lines of "not having fun" or "only care about playoffs", and come April he'll be sitting at around low 50s in points and high 20s in goals.

As far as shoring up the defense, Matt Gilroy could be intriguing and would at least be an improvement over Kindl and probably Ericsson, and he'll probably be decently cheap. Of course, we could always use one of these to get someone worth while :D :

time-machine-observations.jpg

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Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

Filppula, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi and 2013 1st to Buffalo for Tyler Myers. Franzen, Kindl, and 2014 1st to Tampa for Hedman.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Brunner

Mursak-Helm-Emmerton

Eaves-Miller-Nyquist

Tootoo-Abdelkader-Cleary

Kronwall-Myers

Hedman-White

Smith-Ericsson

Howard

Gustavsson

That defense would be killer.

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Filppula, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi and 2013 1st to Buffalo for Tyler Myers. Franzen, Kindl, and 2014 1st to Tampa for Hedman.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Brunner

Mursak-Helm-Emmerton

Eaves-Miller-Nyquist

Tootoo-Abdelkader-Cleary

Kronwall-Myers

Hedman-White

Smith-Ericsson

Howard

Gustavsson

That defense would be killer.

Is this a joke? Id rather not trade away half our offense for a couple dmen. We'd be better off before that trade.

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Get a couple decent veterans to minimize the damage of Erikson & Quincy. There is nothing else he can do. That being said he will have to improve our forward ranks. If we give up more goals we will have to score more goals. Right now D is sub par, Our O is probably average. One of those will have to ofset the other. IMO anyway. Can't wait to see the Russians together again!!!

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Filppula, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi and 2013 1st to Buffalo for Tyler Myers. Franzen, Kindl, and 2014 1st to Tampa for Hedman.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Brunner

Mursak-Helm-Emmerton

Eaves-Miller-Nyquist

Tootoo-Abdelkader-Cleary

Kronwall-Myers

Hedman-White

Smith-Ericsson

Howard

Gustavsson

That defense would be killer.

Ok, the defense would be killer but just LOOK at the second line you concocted. Really? You know we also have to SCORE goals too, right?

Also, thats a whole lotta talent for Myers, a young kid who has had one good season....Not a great, superlative or amazing season- it was a good season.

Edited by Motown4013

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Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

Is this a joke? Id rather not trade away half our offense for a couple dmen. We'd be better off before that trade.

I like speed on O, size on D.

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I like speed on O, size on D.

I do too. But I also like scoring goals on O.

Trading for one top d man (probably sometime after the season starts or at the deadline) while getting rid of a smaller amount of offense then signing a third pair guy like kubina or coliacavo is our best bet.

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agree with kip... think we could have avoided this situation in a big way by not putting all of our eggs into the suter / parise basket. none the less, there is still potential out there whether it be trade or an overlooked / or maybe even underrated FA. i would rather the wings sign someone cheap and test the waters a little bit with what we have before going straight for a trade.

jurcina could work... big body guy has a big shot but isnt great defensively by any means. still could suffice in the bottom pairing. clark, gilroy, kubina, foster all could turn out to be a bargain. spacek plays well in his own zone and i think would be a solid signing as well especially at this point. hannan provides grit and can log some minutes but really isnt great defensively he does add toughness for sure which our blueline could really use.

edit to mention i dont like the idea of coloaiacovo or rozsival due to their injury issues but do think if healthy they could both help us out. reward is not worth the risk though IMO

Edited by DangleDangleBeach

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Filppula, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi and 2013 1st to Buffalo for Tyler Myers. Franzen, Kindl, and 2014 1st to Tampa for Hedman.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Brunner

Mursak-Helm-Emmerton

Eaves-Miller-Nyquist

Tootoo-Abdelkader-Cleary

Kronwall-Myers

Hedman-White

Smith-Ericsson

Howard

Gustavsson

That defense would be killer.

this isnt nhl12 on playstation. teams dont just trade away young potential stud defensemen for spare parts.

its impossible to take you seriously when you always propose these absurd trades.

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Are you thinking of Ole-Kristian Tollefsen? We got him in the Leino trade from Philly. I know he was always pegged as a marginal NHL player and spent all of his time with the Wings in GR. I think he decided playing back in Europe was better for him.

No, this guy was mentioned on here around the same time Brunner was first mentioned...

Edit: Jonas Holos was his name...wonder what is up with him....

If we could get him on a one year contract, would anybody be opposed to signing Jason Arnott as a cheaper, but roughly similar player to Shane Doan?

Yes....yes....and yes.

Edited by LeftWinger

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