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Ryan trade is a must!

trade bobby ryan red wings holland semin

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#21 esteef

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:29 PM

He would have lead the Kings, tied on Boston, and was1 goal behind D. Sedin on Vancouver. Pretty good teams, no?


Not bad, but he also only had 1 goal in the playoff series loss. And yes I know other wingers sucked too but isn't that the point?

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#22 Carman

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:36 PM

Not bad, but he also only had 1 goal in the playoff series loss. And yes I know other wingers sucked too but isn't that the point?

esteef


Bad streches happen for wingers,

Ovechkin only had 1 goal in 5 games of the Boston series as well. Hossa had no goals in 3 games(although injured not really fair), Sharp had one goal, Marleau had no goals, Couture had one, Neal had two goals in the highest scoring series in the history of the game=P haha.

All I'm saying is trading Franzen might not solve our problem, Ryan wouldn't be that big of an improvement if at all in the playoffs. And Franzen's proven to be an elite playoff performer.

#23 esteef

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:42 PM

Bad streches happen for wingers,

Ovechkin only had 1 goal in 5 games of the Boston series as well. Hossa had no goals in 3 games(although injured not really fair), Sharp had one goal, Marleau had no goals, Couture had one, Neal had two goals in the highest scoring series in the history of the game=P haha.

All I'm saying is trading Franzen might not solve our problem, Ryan wouldn't be that big of an improvement if at all in the playoffs. And Franzen's proven to be an elite playoff performer.


Bad stretches happen for wingers? Oh, well all is forgiven then. I could more easily forgive bad stretches if he was busting his ass on a regular basis, something he also does "in stretches".

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#24 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:44 PM

Bad streches happen for wingers,

Ovechkin only had 1 goal in 5 games of the Boston series as well. Hossa had no goals in 3 games(although injured not really fair), Sharp had one goal, Marleau had no goals, Couture had one, Neal had two goals in the highest scoring series in the history of the game=P haha.

All I'm saying is trading Franzen might not solve our problem, Ryan wouldn't be that big of an improvement if at all in the playoffs. And Franzen's proven to be an elite playoff performer.

The thing with Franzen is that his elite playoff performance is based on three playoffs.

He's had 4 very mortal playoff runs. So the big question for the coming years is which Franzen will the Wings get?

#25 Carman

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:47 PM

Bad stretches happen for wingers? Oh, well all is forgiven then. I could more easily forgive bad stretches if he was busting his ass on a regular basis, something he also does "in stretches".

esteef


Ryan is also "lazy", along with Sharp, Marleau, Neal etc. It's not a good thing, but just saying trading him for one of the above would be worth the extra pieces we'd give up. It would be the same thing over again.

#26 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:50 PM

Ryan is also "lazy", along with Sharp, Marleau, Neal etc. It's not a good thing, but just saying trading him for one of the above would be worth the extra pieces we'd give up. It would be the same thing over again.

Ryan isn't lazy.

I can't speak as confidently about the other guys, but I've seen more than my fair share of Ducks games and Ryan doesn't mail it in like Mule does at times. On the Ducks the equivalent in terms of inconsistent effort would be Getzlaf.

#27 esteef

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:52 PM

Ryan isn't lazy.

I can't speak as confidently about the other guys, but I've seen more than my fair share of Ducks games and Ryan doesn't mail it in like Mule does at times. On the Ducks the equivalent in terms of inconsistent effort would be Getzlaf.


Agree, and he consistently finishes his checks. Franzen? Not so much.

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#28 Carman

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 02:55 PM

Ryan isn't lazy.

I can't speak as confidently about the other guys, but I've seen more than my fair share of Ducks games and Ryan doesn't mail it in like Mule does at times. On the Ducks the equivalent in terms of inconsistent effort would be Getzlaf.


Fair enough, I can't say that I watch a lot of anaheim. I did hear it from a few fans, but it might just be talk trying to soften the blow if he's traded.
I watch a lot of the eastern conference, and Gaborik, Neal, Kessel etc. all seem very similar to Franzen. Although Neal's production was great, Malkin was the driving force, and opened up the ice tremendously.

#29 mjtm77

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:05 PM

You are comparing a 7 million dollar superstar vs a 50-60 pt top 6 forward. Franzen led the team in goals, +/- and was 2nd in SOG with a cap hit just over half what Zetterberg makes. You seem to be focusing more on what you perceive he can do better, rather than being happy with what he already does well.

I'll concede he didn't use his size as well this past season, but other than that his play has been the same since he came into the league. Most goal scorers are streaky, the ones who aren't get paid almost double what Franzen does.



Franzen's production hasn't declined though, he was 3 pts and 5 goals away from his career highs last year. He's actually been one of the more consistent Wings during his career, and his style of play has never been centered around playing in the corners. He's a goal scorer, you don't score them from the corners. (Unless you have a bank shot mastered like Zetterberg seems to have)

If Franzen made the Wings easier to defend he wouldn't lead the team in goals. You could just as easily make the case that the Wings are easier to defend because teams know Datsyuk will look to pass rather than shoot. I personally don't think the problem with our top 6 is any one player, its that we only have 4 that are legitimate top 6 players. If you put another good scorer on a line with Franzen and Datsyuk, the complaints about Franzen would likely disappear completely.



Why? are you paying him? The only thing that should matter from a fans perspective is his cap hit as its the only thing that effects the quality of the team.


so it does not matter that we will have a franzen in his late 30s makeing 3.95 million to do nothing? I personally would have rather had him for a shorter amount of years with a higher cap hit.
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#30 wingslogo19

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 03:30 PM

Ryan to Detroit, make it happen Kenny
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#31 FlashyG

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 04:39 PM

so it does not matter that we will have a franzen in his late 30s makeing 3.95 million to do nothing? I personally would have rather had him for a shorter amount of years with a higher cap hit.


That entirely depends on how he plays in his late 30's.

The average pt production for players making less than 4 million a year is around 20 to 30. I feel pretty confident he can match that even in the last year of his deal.

I somewhat agree with your point though, since we didn't manage to use the cap savings we got from him I'd rather pay him slightly more on a shorter term as well. However if Holland manages to make a trade for a top 6 winger that uses that savings effectively then have no objections to his contract length.

Agree, and he consistently finishes his checks. Franzen? Not so much.

esteef


Franzen didn't this past season, but the year before he was 2nd on the team in hits behind only Abdelkader.

Ryan isn't lazy.

I can't speak as confidently about the other guys, but I've seen more than my fair share of Ducks games and Ryan doesn't mail it in like Mule does at times. On the Ducks the equivalent in terms of inconsistent effort would be Getzlaf.


I agree that Ryan isn't "Lazy" but then again I don't see Franzen as lazy either. They are both equally streaky with their scoring, in fact Ryan is slightly more streaky than Franzen and often goes weeks without registering a pt before exploding for a big game.

"Mule" just isn't a nickname given to someone who you consider lazy, and I imagine his teammates have a better understanding of his effort level than any of us do posting about him on the internet.

#32 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 04:53 PM

"Mule" just isn't a nickname given to someone who you consider lazy, and I imagine his teammates have a better understanding of his effort level than any of us do posting about him on the internet.

"Mule" is the nickname given to Franzen by Yzerman, back when Franzen used his size effectively and worked hard.

And as I've said multiple times now, it's not really about goals. That's not my beef. Like you say, a lot of goal scorers are streaky. It's the games where he seems way too happy to skate back to the bench after a halfhearted shift.



I'm not saying franzen has always been lazy. I'm comparing his recent play with his performance and efforts from previous seasons.

#33 FlashyG

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:05 PM

I think you could make a case then for last season, but like I said in the previous post, just the season before he had the 2nd most hits on the team.

He certainly looked great at the World Championships so hopefully last season was just a down year in his physical play. Even if it wasn't, his possible lack of effort didn't affect his production and at the end of the day that's what he gets paid for.

#34 GoWings1905

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 05:10 PM

His teammates may know more than us, but "Mule's" own head coach has called him out multiple times for basically the same complaints being raised here.

Franzen was getting shifts on the 4th line in a one-goal elimination game. He has a lack of effort problem -- this isn't some obscure issue brought up by a few people. He's the most frustrating player on the team. He's useless when he isn't scoring goals and personally that's what bothers me most watching him play.
 
 
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#35 DatSuhK

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:23 PM

How many goals can you see Brunner netting if he played with datsyuk or zetterberg for his first season in the NHL? I say at least 20

#36 The Axe

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 06:59 PM

I like Franzen, but we aint getting a Ryan type guy for him no matter how many scrubs and rounders we throw in. Filppula, Helm, and Smith are legit trade bait. Not Franzen.

How many goals can you see Brunner netting if he played with datsyuk or zetterberg for his first season in the NHL? I say at least 20


I could net 20 with the 2 kids and an Axe line!

#37 LeftWinger

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 10:01 PM

I'd love to have Ryan here, but I think the Wings should make a trade for Yandle and then hope he can sway Doan our way...

edit: Still would LOVE for Holland to sign Welsh to an offer sheet just to get him in the organization! Him along with Sheahan, Smith, (hopefully) DeKeyser and soon enough McKee will solidify the future for sure! I love College hockey players making a big splash! (except I hope Schultz fails epically!) Lest I forget Abdelkader! The future so bright, I gotta wear shades!

Edited by LeftWinger, 02 August 2012 - 10:06 PM.

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#38 Barrie

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 10:08 PM

I think for his cap hit Franzen's fine. Looking at his numbers, last year he played the most games in a season in his career, scored the 2nd most amount of goals, tied his career high in assists, and had his highest +/-. Like people have already mentioned, wingers are streaky.

When Franzen started in 2005-06, the Wings weren't expecting him to be much more than a bottom 6 player. I think he's exceeded expectations.

Also, I don't see to many people complaining about the drop in goal production by Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Franzen's stayed consistant, while Z and Dats have gone down point wise.
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#39 13dangledangle

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 10:52 PM

It's been stated several times what Franzen's critics would like from him. Sure 40-50 goals would be great, but I'd settle for a more consistent effort on the ice. When Zetterberg isn't scoring you can still see how hard he's working out there. Trying to get his shots, backchecking, carrying the puck in the high traffic areas.

Franzen is at his worst when he is content not having fun and he tends to float around, not using his considerable size, and just wing the puck at the net from low-percentage areas.


Just had to fix that ;) I wont lie I don't think we of all teams will land Ryan, and I think that's a good thing. Yes he is a 50-60 point guy but to lose Flip entering his prime (not to mention the "kids" found his mojo imo) Tatar ++ for it?? I dont want to see that happen, I am really gearing up for this transition and with a little help from lady luck we will be alright...Better then that actually, we will be gorgeous!

Edited by 13dangledangle, 02 August 2012 - 10:59 PM.

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#40 FlashyG

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Posted 02 August 2012 - 11:50 PM

Filppula, Helm, and Smith are legit trade bait. Not Franzen.


Smith is the only one of those players that is higher valued than Franzen right now.

Filppula will be once he signs a new contract but with 1 year left on his deal he probably has the least value of all of them. Teams are afraid he'll bolt back to the Wings after one season. The Ducks might be an exception where he is concerned though as Selanne absolutely loves him but even they have to value 8 years of Franzen over 1 of Flip.

Helm is arguably more valuable to the Wings but despite his stellar defensive play and elite level speed he seriously lacks offence.

Maybe with better linemates this season he'll develop that side of his game but even the best energy guys aren't more valuable than 30 goal scorers.





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