119 replies to this topic

[cusimano_brothers]

Ah, how I yearn for a return of a healthy Cleary.

[number9]

Eaves to Calgary for a 5th rounder. Callin it.

[robb himself]

I dont mind the look of our Forwards at all...I have a lot of faith in Nyquist and Brunner.

Franzen - Datsyuk - Brunner

Filppula- Zetterberg - Nyquist

Bertuzzi - Helm - Samuelsson

Cleary - Abdelkader - Tootoo

13th/14th/15th -Mursak/Emmerton/Miller (someone needs to be traded)

Eaves - LTIR

I really like that lineup.

Edited by robb himself, 06 August 2012 - 02:47 PM.

[joshy207]

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Brunner
Nyquist - Filppula - Samuelsson
Franzen - Helm - Cleary
Bertuzzi - Abdelkader - Tootoo

Egads, that's a recipe for disaster... Filppula would struggle to get over 50 points on that line... no way Franzen and Helm can play together, total contrast in style. Helm won't get the puck to Franzen nearly enough and Franzen won't work nearly hard enough to keep up with Helm... and Bertuzzi isn't getting paid over $2M to play on the 4th line. I think he'll see most of his minutes with Datsyuk again. Also, I think Abdelkader is more effective on the wing, but he seems to have been anointed 4th line center by Holland and Babcock (for now).

[number9]

Egads, that's a recipe for disaster... Filppula would struggle to get over 50 points on that line... no way Franzen and Helm can play together, total contrast in style. Helm won't get the puck to Franzen nearly enough and Franzen won't work nearly hard enough to keep up with Helm... and Bertuzzi isn't getting paid over $2M to play on the 4th line. I think he'll see most of his minutes with Datsyuk again. Also, I think Abdelkader is more effective on the wing, but he seems to have been anointed 4th line center by Holland and Babcock (for now).

Filppula - Datsyuk - Samuelsson
Franzen - Zetterberg - Brunner
Bertuzzi - Helm - Cleary
Tootoo - Abdelkader - Eaves

^ If we stand pat that's what I'd expect at the beginning of the season

[jroc86]

Our depth and skill up front is being HEAVILY under-rated by so many people on this board (and elsewhere). If a young gun (or two) has a solid rookie campaign (Nyquist, Brunner, or maybe Tatar I could see contributing) we or more will probably once again be among the leagues top producing teams. Even with a few injuries we have allot more attractive options to fill in as top-6 stopgaps.

Beyond Hank and Pav we have Cleary, Sammy, Bert, Filp, Zetterberg, Franzen are all guys that should put up 20 goals and if healthy are serviceable top 6 players anywhere in the league. If Brunner and Nyquist adapt to the league quickly then we should be able to roll out 3 offensively threatening lines on a nightly basis.

Defence is another story - but the longer we go without making a big move the more comfortable I am becoming with just signing a solid veteran dman as "Kindl insurance" ...

Cant wait for this season to start just to end these endless downfall speculation threads.

[SwedeLundin77]

Our depth and skill up front is being HEAVILY under-rated by so many people on this board (and elsewhere). If a young gun (or two) has a solid rookie campaign (Nyquist, Brunner, or maybe Tatar I could see contributing) we or more will probably once again be among the leagues top producing teams. Even with a few injuries we have allot more attractive options to fill in as top-6 stopgaps.

Beyond Hank and Pav we have Cleary, Sammy, Bert, Filp, Zetterberg, Franzen are all guys that should put up 20 goals and if healthy are serviceable top 6 players anywhere in the league. If Brunner and Nyquist adapt to the league quickly then we should be able to roll out 3 offensively threatening lines on a nightly basis.

Defence is another story - but the longer we go without making a big move the more comfortable I am becoming with just signing a solid veteran dman as "Kindl insurance" ...

Cant wait for this season to start just to end these endless downfall speculation threads.

I would add Jurco to that potential list...

[The Axe]

Of the four, Eaves and Miller have the highest trade value, IMO - though Eaves' health is a question mark at this point. Moreover, they deserve playing time, so you could say trading them would be the morally correct thing to do.

Sorry, but 4th line guys with injury problems have Zero trade value. We need snipers and bangers. Emmerton is going to surprise a lot of people this year. I agree that we keep him. He needs more muscle, but speed kills in hockey, and that guy has it.

[joshy207]

Our depth and skill up front is being HEAVILY under-rated by so many people on this board (and elsewhere). If a young gun (or two) has a solid rookie campaign (Nyquist, Brunner, or maybe Tatar I could see contributing) we or more will probably once again be among the leagues top producing teams. Even with a few injuries we have allot more attractive options to fill in as top-6 stopgaps.

Beyond Hank and Pav we have Cleary, Sammy, Bert, Filp, Zetterberg, Franzen are all guys that should put up 20 goals and if healthy are serviceable top 6 players anywhere in the league. If Brunner and Nyquist adapt to the league quickly then we should be able to roll out 3 offensively threatening lines on a nightly basis.

Defence is another story - but the longer we go without making a big move the more comfortable I am becoming with just signing a solid veteran dman as "Kindl insurance" ...

Cant wait for this season to start just to end these endless downfall speculation threads.

You say how under-rated the Wings forwards are, then the things you say in defense are "ifs" and "shoulds"... Yeah, IF Nyquist and/or Brunner contribute, that's a big help, and some (not all) of those players you listed SHOULD hit 20 goals... Franzen, Zetterberg, Datsyuk (had 19 last year but missed 12 games), Filppula, if they stay healthy, should hit 20, but I don't see any of them hitting 30. MAYBE Franzen, if he finds motivation. I think if one of Bertuzzi (14 last year), Cleary (only 12 but played hurt), or Samuelsson (14, missed a third of the season) gets close to 20, that'll be a big bonus. 13-16 for each is more likely. The top 6 lacks a consistent goal-scoring threat, someone who can hit 40 regularly, and of the top 7 forwards, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, and Cleary, only ONE (Filppula) is younger than 31, and he's 28. Most have battled injuries to one degree or another over the last couple years. Hudler (28) is gone, Nyquist (23) and Brunner (26) are unproven, and all of the others are either not top-6 quality or not ready for regular NHL duty (or there just isn't room for them). Almost every other team in the league has younger forwards leading their charge. The Wings have some enticing prospects, but they can't be counted on to pick up the torch if the current leaders fall off drastically. The Wings' forward group isn't bad if everything goes right and if they all stay healthy. But all it takes is a couple guys not producing, or Datsyuk or Zetterberg to get hurt, and things go badly.

[jroc86]

You say how under-rated the Wings forwards are, then the things you say in defense are "ifs" and "shoulds"... Yeah, IF Nyquist and/or Brunner contribute, that's a big help, and some (not all) of those players you listed SHOULD hit 20 goals... Franzen, Zetterberg, Datsyuk (had 19 last year but missed 12 games), Filppula, if they stay healthy, should hit 20, but I don't see any of them hitting 30. MAYBE Franzen, if he finds motivation. I think if one of Bertuzzi (14 last year), Cleary (only 12 but played hurt), or Samuelsson (14, missed a third of the season) gets close to 20, that'll be a big bonus. 13-16 for each is more likely. The top 6 lacks a consistent goal-scoring threat, someone who can hit 40 regularly, and of the top 7 forwards, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Filppula, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, and Cleary, only ONE (Filppula) is younger than 31, and he's 28. Most have battled injuries to one degree or another over the last couple years. Hudler (28) is gone, Nyquist (23) and Brunner (26) are unproven, and all of the others are either not top-6 quality or not ready for regular NHL duty (or there just isn't room for them). Almost every other team in the league has younger forwards leading their charge. The Wings have some enticing prospects, but they can't be counted on to pick up the torch if the current leaders fall off drastically. The Wings' forward group isn't bad if everything goes right and if they all stay healthy. But all it takes is a couple guys not producing, or Datsyuk or Zetterberg to get hurt, and things go badly.

I see where your coming from - but what Im saying is unless the laws of probability completely screw us and 2-3 main guys up front sustain serious injuries we have the bodies to ice a competitive top 6 that stacks up well with most teams in the league. If everything goes right and Brunner and Nyquist end up being productive well then we have significant scoring depth and Kennys often mocked theory of "production by commitee" will once again hold true. Yeah - we dont have any bonified 40 goals scorers ... how any of those are there? Daniel Sedin, Stamkos, Crosby, Giroux, Malkin, Rick Nash if he has chemistry with Richards? We havent had a 40 goal scorer since 2009 and have remained amongst the highest scoring teams each year since. Our downfall since then hasnt been the absence of a sniper - but a lack of depth scoring in the playoffs and a defence group thats far to easy to play against. I dont expect to see this team competing for a conference title this year, but barring serious injuries or gross under performance theres no reason for the fanabse to throw in the towel and consider this team Calgary 2.0.

[joshy207]

I'll agree, the major problems have been lack of postseason scoring and soft defense. Those have been the problems since 2009, but Holland's done little to nothing to address those issues.

[Dabura]

Egads, that's a recipe for disaster...

The second line would be my only concern.

Brunner's never played a game in the big league; I'd sleep better at night with him flanking Datsyuk, and Zetterberg on the other wing. I think you're overstating the difference in style thing thing re: Franzen and Helm. We've seen much stranger combinations, and some of them have succeeded well beyond expectations. I don't really care about Bertuzzi's price tag. He should be in the bottom-6, and I like him on the fourth line. Call it depth.

Sorry, but 4th line guys with injury problems have Zero trade value. We need snipers and bangers. Emmerton is going to surprise a lot of people this year. I agree that we keep him. He needs more muscle, but speed kills in hockey, and that guy has it.

I said, "Of the four, X and Y have the highest trade value" - not "X and Y have high trade value."

[Dabura]

I should also add: that lineup is what I'd like to see, not what I expect to see.

Really, though - any way you slice it, our forward corps = Meh, with a capital M. Especially our top-6.

[dirtydangles]

Id rather have a bunch of 20 goal scorers than one 40 goal guy. Its hard to shut down consistent team scoring - one 40 goal guy can be shut down. This is especially true in the playoffs where those guys take a punishment. I don't think our depth was good enough to compete against the preds this playoffs but I think we improved our scoring depth this offseason and we have a lot of guys that have 15-25 goal potential, so even if one goes cold we are still okay.

[Z Winged Dangler]

I wasn't sold on that Brunner guy when we signed him, but after watching his highlight video the guy has a high end skill.

I'd like to see

Brunner-Datsyuk-Nyquist (Yepp, give Pavel two quick high skill guys and let him develop them)
Filppula-Zetterberg-Franzen (Pretty much the top line, would be deadly. Franzen is better with Zetterberg I feel.)
Sammy-Helm-Bertuzzi (Could be a pretty physical line with scoring potential if they stay healthy)
Eaves-Abdelkader-Tootoo (Wrecking ball line, decent amount of offensive touch too)

Then Miller, Emmerton, Mursak as the spare parts. Actually.. I guess I forgot Samuelsson. Yeah, we have too many forwards

There, i fixed your problem. And until Cleary is 100% and can contribute like he used to, he has to play his way back into the line up. and Eaves deserves his spot back and his return could spark the Wings along with an insurgence of 2 young super fast wingers to play with Dats on the top line and the 2nd line, we can continue the chemistry that Flip and Z have as well as Mule and Z at the World Championships. Could be what Mule needs to get going and stay consistent with 2 guys that don't take shifts off. Either way you slice it, i like the line up above and i strongly believe that it could top the central div and contend for the west.

[pondrocket]

It was proven last season that Cleary is no good unless he is on the 3rd line with Helm. He is NOT a top 6 forward!

Completely agree!!!!!!

[pondrocket]

The problem is he is hurt too often & is too fragile & or small to play a physical game. I am not happy to think this as I believe he triries very hard to make Detroit tough to play against. I argue he might not be effective enough to be on an an elite teams roster. Lucky for Danny Detroit while good are no longer elite. They are on par with Calgary.

It was not proven at all. He had effed up knees all season. The season before that the guy got like 25 goals!! He is all healed up, so lets give him a fresh start with Hank and Pavs and see how he does. I think Pavs and Hank will make magic this year if Babs can just make it work, and Cleary has the potential to do a good job as the 3rd guy on that line.

It was not proven at all. He had effed up knees all season. The season before that the guy got like 25 goals!! He is all healed up, so lets give him a fresh start with Hank and Pavs and see how he does. I think Pavs and Hank will make magic this year if Babs can just make it work, and Cleary has the potential to do a good job as the 3rd guy on that line.

The problem is he is hurt too often & is too fragile & or small to play a physical game. I am not happy to think this as I believe he triries very hard to make Detroit tough to play against. I argue he might not be effective enough to be on an an elite teams roster. Lucky for Danny Detroit while good are no longer elite. They are on par with Calgary.

[pondrocket]

I'll agree, the major problems have been lack of postseason scoring and soft defense. Those have been the problems since 2009, but Holland's done little to nothing to address those issues.

I'll agree, the major problems have been lack of postseason scoring and soft defense. Those have been the problems since 2009, but Holland's done little to nothing to address those issues.

I agree & wish somebody would interview Holland about this. With all of the repetition of "non-news" why has no single reporter done this. Not Kevin Allen, not Anser Khan, NOBODY. It's the now media, it's all PR & no news. What's black & white and read all over? Nothing because news is dead, and soon people will realize that content is dead EVERYWHERE. Where is Kenny Holland responding to the concerns of Mike Illitch's customers. I would be embarased if I were a "reporter" these days. I would rather be called a CPA or ambulance chacing attourney. At least they bring value.

Edited by pondrocket, 07 August 2012 - 01:43 PM.

[Z Winged Dangler]

The problem is he is hurt too often & is too fragile & or small to play a physical game. I am not happy to think this as I believe he triries very hard to make Detroit tough to play against. I argue he might not be effective enough to be on an an elite teams roster. Lucky for Danny Detroit while good are no longer elite. They are on par with Calgary.



The problem is he is hurt too often & is too fragile & or small to play a physical game. I am not happy to think this as I believe he triries very hard to make Detroit tough to play against. I argue he might not be effective enough to be on an an elite teams roster. Lucky for Danny Detroit while good are no longer elite. They are on par with Calgary.

We're on par with a team that hasn't made the playoffs since....when? Give your head a shake. The current Wings roster is still a playoff team and is WAY better than Calgary who just paid $4mil to HUDLER! 5 foot 8 table scraps that only got 50 points on a line with Z and Flip and held that line back all year. He'll have fun next year getting 35 points on the Flames with Iginla (feel bad for him cause he's always been one of my favorites) and who else do they have? Daymond Langkow?

Anyone who says we're on par with Calgary needs to go to the dark room until playoffs start next year and the Wings have home ice. Completely absurd.

[The Axe]

1989 all over again!