19 replies to this topic

[ozone923]

http://www.kuklaskor..._medium=twitter

Thoughts?

Cory Emmerton is the worst player on the list other than players that were traded (like Nick Schultz, according to the article). Holmstrom is in the mix, as well as Kindl.

You guys firm believers in these stats?

[Crymson]

Emmerton is terrible. Holmstrom has been in decline for some time. Kindl? He's not very good.

[The Axe]

Holmstrom is washed up

[haroldsnepsts]

I don't put much stock in Corsi stats. I can understand the desire for statistical analysis, but there's just so many variables changing second to second.

Hockey's not baseball (thank god).

[Red Wings Addict]

Hockey's not baseball (thank god).

[heikks86]

theres actually 4 Wings on the list Abdelkader is on it as well

[dobbles]

do we even know how that stat is calculated?

boston has 4 guys on there and they had the best goal differential in hockey. not sure this stat means much.

this part made me wonder: "This is exaggerated by the team adjustment which holds players on stronger teams to higher standards than weak teams."

with that said, that 4th line was terrible this year and deserve to be at the bottom on any list. holmstrom was terrible even strength and it was like being on the penalty kill with 5 guys.

i kind of find it funny that the raw list here http://www.kuklaskor...corsi_ratings2/ has no players from this list. and only calgary seems to have players on both lists.

[RyanBarnes!]

Complete BS stats in my opinion. I dont understand why anybody would waste their time to measure this? As pointed out, too many variables come into play for this to be significant in any possible way.

[kipwinger]

don't know if this will help, but just something I found on the net:

Corsi: the most popular advanced stat in the hockey blogosphere, Corsi is a possession metric developed by former Buffalo Sabres goaltending coach Jim Corsi. At its most basic level, Corsi is the plus/minus amount of shots directed at a net while at even strength-blocked shots, shots high and wide, shots that hit, shots that get tipped, etc. A player who has a positive Corsi has more shots directed towards the opponents net while he is on the ice at even strength then shots directed towards his own net under the same criteria. All 10 players on the ice are used when calculating this metric.
For example, if Mark Giordano is +7 in Corsi over the course of the game, that means he & Flames players he was on the ice with at even strength directed 7 more shots towards the opponents net then were directed by the opponents towards the Flames' net.
Most of the time we'll stop there, as any score effect bias generally evens out over the course of a season (unless a team really sucks or is really good, but there's that context thing). Basically, score effect means that a team will play differently depending on how far ahead/behind they are in a game-if a team is 3 goals up, they'll sit back and take more shots against then they would if they were 3 goals down.
So, to combat score effect, we can break down Corsi into 4 categories: Corsi Ahead (Corsi while the subject's team is leading the game), Corsi Even (Corsi while a game is tied), Corsi Close (Corsi while a game is within 1 goal either way relative to a subject) and Corsi Behind (Corsi while the subject's team is losing the game). With these tools, we can eliminate most scoring bias within the stat. All of the breakdowns have their purpose, but when trying to evaluate a player, the most important breakdown is Corsi Even-a team won't be taking risks and won't be sitting back when a game is tied, they'll be playing as "normal" as possible.

[Ozzie30]

Richards, Iginla, and Gaborik all ranked. I call BS.

[Din758]

there we go Cory, #1 at something!

[StormJH1]

Sabermetrics are problematic in BASEBALL, which is a largely individualistic sport with set pieces and measurable starts and stops. I can't even imagine them being useful in hockey, which is much more continuous, chaotic, and team-based.

My rule of thumb is that more you struggle to even explain how a statistic is calculated, the less likely I'm inclined to think that it measures anything useful.

Ask yourself this question, could you read the definition above and purposefully alter your play to improve your Corsi rating (without actually playing better)? I'd have to think the answer is probably yes.

[Z Winged Dangler]

Richards, Iginla, and Gaborik all ranked. I call BS.

First thing i thought too...laughed a little at that. Overall, it looks like a very useless stat and it seems like the kind of thing developed by someone with way too much time on their hands. And if there's a stat for shots high and wide, Franzen gets #1 for sure.

On a side note, there goes Emmerton's trade value.

[dobbles]

Sabermetrics are problematic in BASEBALL, which is a largely individualistic sport with set pieces and measurable starts and stops. I can't even imagine them being useful in hockey, which is much more continuous, chaotic, and team-based.

My rule of thumb is that more you struggle to even explain how a statistic is calculated, the less likely I'm inclined to think that it measures anything useful.

Ask yourself this question, could you read the definition above and purposefully alter your play to improve your Corsi rating (without actually playing better)? I'd have to think the answer is probably yes.

you know the worst part? that definition was just for the standard corsi calculation. i am still waiting for the full explanation of that modified one. i want to know how and why it takes a teams record into consideration. i can only imagine thats how those bruins got on the list.

[uk_redwing]

Corsi stats are pretty useless.

Just like Cory Emmerton.

[Z Winged Dangler]

Corsi stats are pretty useless.

Just like Cory Emmerton.

[The Axe]

Corsi stats are pretty useless.

Just like Cory Emmerton.

Ha! Good one. But Emmerton is going to surprise.

[number9]

Ha! Good one. But Emmerton is going to surprise.

Corys not even gonna play lol

[jroc86]

Ha! Good one. But Emmerton is going to surprise.

Yeah - hell have a great season in europe after he gets waived and nobody claims him. Hardworking little player and a good guy ... unfortunatley he has bottom 6 skill and is small, light, doesnt have Helm/Draper speed, and isnt abraisive. His only purpose on this team might be as the 14th forward to step in when a center goes down with an injury. Guys a slower and less talented Jeff Tambellini.

[martinezsvsu]

theres some good ass players on this list so im not looking to much into this stat