Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Should Kronwall have to answer the bell for his hits?

niklas kronwall

  • Please log in to reply
96 replies to this topic

Poll: Should Kronwall have to answer the bell for his hits?

Should Kronwall have to answer the bell for his hits?

You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.
Vote Guests cannot vote

#21 Echolalia

Echolalia

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,703 posts
  • Location:fab ferndale

Posted 18 August 2012 - 07:25 PM

Sometimes. Depends on the situation. Honestly, I don't like seeing him skate away from a ***** like Kesler. He should have went with him, whether it was a clean hit or not. Makes our whole team look bad when he just skates away.


I understand where you're coming from but I disagree. I love seeing the other team squirm and lose their focus and try to get retribution when they should be focusing on the game itself. Vladdy said it best: "I don't need to score the goal. I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."
On the other hand, when Zetterberg gets his face slammed into the boards (or any other illegal and dangerous attack), then I expect the team to strike down with great fury. The acquisition of Tootoo should help in that regard.

#22 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 18 August 2012 - 07:34 PM

http://m.youtube.com...erizon-us&gl=US

I dont have a problem with his arm flailing out after his hits. Thats just him trying to get his balance. Not him trying to elbow people, as is often said. I just see a lot of:

1) leaving his feet
2) shoulder to elbow part of the arm hits placed at the head of the opponent instead of the middle of the body.

Notice that most of his perfect hits go unchallenged by the other team and the opposing player is normally shaken, but gets back up. Then notice his imperfect hits where the opposing player is hurt and the other team is wanting to fight.

Kronwall is a good player, but saying he is a clean player is a bit naive or homeristic. Im sure 29 teams' fans dont think so.

#23 hillbillywingsfan

hillbillywingsfan

    Awww poor butch

  • Gold Booster
  • 3,486 posts

Posted 18 August 2012 - 07:38 PM

http://m.youtube.com...erizon-us&gl=US

I dont have a problem with his arm flailing out after his hits. Thats just him trying to get his balance. Not him trying to elbow people, as is often said. I just see a lot of:

1) leaving his feet
2) shoulder to elbow part of the arm hits placed at the head of the opponent instead of the middle of the body.

Notice that most of his perfect hits go unchallenged by the other team and the opposing player is normally shaken, but gets back up. Then notice his imperfect hits where the opposing player is hurt and the other team is wanting to fight.

Kronwall is a good player, but saying he is a clean player is a bit naive or homeristic. Im sure 29 teams' fans dont think so.

If he leaves his feet so much and his hits are so illegal 50% of the time as you say again answer why he hasn't been suspended. Shanny has no problem suspending guys even though there was no call on ice. Are we going to start talking about the mysterious Shanny bias for the wings now?
msg-10491-1258682020.jpg


I LIVE IN TEXAS SO I DON'T DESERVE HOCKEY

#24 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 18 August 2012 - 07:48 PM

If he leaves his feet so much and his hits are so illegal 50% of the time as you say again answer why he hasn't been suspended. Shanny has no problem suspending guys even though there was no call on ice. Are we going to start talking about the mysterious Shanny bias for the wings now?


Last year, he was pretty clean. I will give u that.

#25 Carman

Carman

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 5,113 posts
  • Location:Riverview, MI

Posted 18 August 2012 - 07:55 PM

Absolutely not, hitting is a part of the game. Fighting isn't. Can't wait until fighting is gone and I don't have to waste my time seeing idiots punch each other.

#26 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 20,159 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:02 PM

I understand where you're coming from but I disagree. I love seeing the other team squirm and lose their focus and try to get retribution when they should be focusing on the game itself. Vladdy said it best: "I don't need to score the goal. I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."
On the other hand, when Zetterberg gets his face slammed into the boards (or any other illegal and dangerous attack), then I expect the team to strike down with great fury. The acquisition of Tootoo should help in that regard.


Our powerplay is no longer an enforcer. It flat out sucks.

And nobody is rattled by our team like they were say in 2002.

Absolutely not, hitting is a part of the game. Fighting isn't. Can't wait until fighting is gone and I don't have to waste my time seeing idiots punch each other.


In the meantime, go watch the NBA.
According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#27 Carman

Carman

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 5,113 posts
  • Location:Riverview, MI

Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:08 PM

In the meantime, go watch the NBA.


Not enough physical contact for me, I like football.

You don't need to be an idiot and take shots to the head and become suicidal to be physical in today's game. Fighting is a cave man skill, now that we understand the human brain more and more, it's surprising to me people like you still want to see young men dead every off season. It truly boggles my mind that we are so backwards in this sport, and I can't wait until we catch up with the rest of the world, I'm tired of seeing players shave years along with quality of their life to appease a part of a sports fan base.

In the meantime, you can watch UFC.

Edited by Carman, 18 August 2012 - 08:09 PM.


#28 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 20,159 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:12 PM

Not enough physical contact for me, I like football.

You don't need to be an idiot and take shots to the head and become suicidal to be physical in today's game. Fighting is a cave man skill, now that we understand the human brain more and more, it's surprising to me people like you still want to see young men dead every off season. It truly boggles my mind that we are so backwards in this sport, and I can't wait until we catch up with the rest of the world, I'm tired of seeing players shave years along with quality of their life to appease a part of a sports fan base.

In the meantime, you can watch UFC.


FIghting has been a part of North American hockey for a long time. I don't want that tradition to change. I shouldn't have to watch the UFC to see a sport I've been watching since I was a kid.
According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#29 Crymson

Crymson

    Ninjelephant

  • Gold Booster
  • 11,032 posts
  • Location:Denver, CO, USA

Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:13 PM

Needing to fight after legal hits isn't too far from needing to fight after legal goals.

#30 The Axe

The Axe

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,379 posts

Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:18 PM

Needing to fight after legal hits isn't too far from needing to fight after legal goals.


Tim Hunter.

Good point, crysmon.

#31 Carman

Carman

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 5,113 posts
  • Location:Riverview, MI

Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:19 PM

FIghting has been a part of North American hockey for a long time. I don't want that tradition to change. I shouldn't have to watch the UFC to see a sport I've been watching since I was a kid.


That's fine, why should we change something that seriously harms someone? I'm sorry, I just don't understand how fighting is more important than a person's well being, I'll defend hitting in hockey, but I draw the line at punches directly to the head. I just refuse to believe the entertainment trade off for a player's health is there for me personally.

#32 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 20,159 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:52 PM

That's fine, why should we change something that seriously harms someone? I'm sorry, I just don't understand how fighting is more important than a person's well being, I'll defend hitting in hockey, but I draw the line at punches directly to the head. I just refuse to believe the entertainment trade off for a player's health is there for me personally.


You make it sound like every ex enforcer has died. There have been lots of tragic deaths due to concussion symptoms, but most concussions still come from hits, especially for non-fighters.

In many years, you may start seeing skilled players whose careers ended because of concussions committing suicide and turning to drugs. Will you want to eliminate hitting then?

Hockey is a physical sport, and hits to the head will occur, whether it be due to legal hits, which are allowed, or fighting, which is also allowed.

Honestly, the best way to prevent concussions is to take hitting and fighting out of the game. I know you just want fighting out, but that's still asking for a lot. That's all we need is more Ruutu's and Cooke's running around cheap shotting people, knowing nobody will ever fight them. There has to be some accountability in a league where accountability seems to be waning. I think they should get rid of the instigator rule first, and see if that deters cheap shots.

Edited by GMRwings1983, 18 August 2012 - 08:54 PM.

According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#33 WorkingOvertime

WorkingOvertime

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,312 posts
  • Location:Columbus, OH

Posted 18 August 2012 - 08:53 PM

That's fine, why should we change something that seriously harms someone? I'm sorry, I just don't understand how fighting is more important than a person's well being, I'll defend hitting in hockey, but I draw the line at punches directly to the head. I just refuse to believe the entertainment trade off for a player's health is there for me personally.

If you're worried about player health, you should be for eliminating hitting. What percentage of serious injuries have resulted from fighting? The percentage is low, and the amount of injuries is less than the amount of injuries from 'dirty' hits.

For the topic, he shouldn't have to respond for a clean hit. However, I do think the other team should challenge him. Except for blatantly dirty hits, I think fights should be agreed on by both players.

#34 Echolalia

Echolalia

    Legend

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,703 posts
  • Location:fab ferndale

Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:17 PM

Our powerplay is no longer an enforcer. It flat out sucks.

And nobody is rattled by our team like they were say in 2002.


This is true, but considering the alternative that we're discussing is making the other team answer the bell, I'd say that our enforcers aren't very enforcer-like either (aside from Tootoo, as mentioned above), and I don't think anybody would be rattled by the physicality of our team like they were say in 2002, or 98, or 95 etc.

#35 Carman

Carman

    Legend

  • HoF Booster
  • 5,113 posts
  • Location:Riverview, MI

Posted 18 August 2012 - 09:42 PM

If you're worried about player health, you should be for eliminating hitting. What percentage of serious injuries have resulted from fighting? The percentage is low, and the amount of injuries is less than the amount of injuries from 'dirty' hits.

For the topic, he shouldn't have to respond for a clean hit. However, I do think the other team should challenge him. Except for blatantly dirty hits, I think fights should be agreed on by both players.


Sorry, I'm just not sold on the deaths of Boogaard, Belak, Rypien, and to an extent Probert being due to hits more-so than the fights. If it was Kayira-type players dying in the off-season then I'd side with hitting being worse than repeated punches to the skull, but that's not the case.

I played Juniors, I played semi-pro, I saw first hand the dread that enforcers had of their next fight, and knowing damn well the only way they can get that next paycheck is to go out and fight.

“The guys that have played the role have never denied how it makes them feel and what it does to them emotionally,” said Brantt Myhres, a former N.H.L. enforcer who made five trips to league-mandated rehabilitation because of alcohol and drug addictions, and now works as a substance-abuse counselor. “It’s one of the hardest jobs in sports. All people see is 20,000 people standing and cheering you on. They don’t see the dark times. They don’t see you curled up in a ball in a hotel room, scared to death for the next fight.”

“They scare me,” said the former enforcer Ryan Vandenbussche, 38, who last played in the N.H.L. five years ago and acknowledges bouts of memory loss. “They scare me because we don’t know why this is happening.”

A lot of them, including the long-feared enforcer Georges Laraque, now retired, said that sleep was rare the night before an expected fight with another enforcer.
"I did it because it was my job but I hated it," said Georges Laraque, one of the most successful hockey heavyweights in his 12-year NHL career. "I hated to fight. I hated the pressure. I hated to be called a goon, and an animal. I hated promoting violence."

"It's the night before, the day of the game, before it starts," he said. "It's the shivers that it gives you, the worry in the head and the brain. It's when you go to a movie and you can't watch it because you're thinking the next game about having to fight Derek Boogaard or someone like that. Or you don't feel well, but something happens and you have to go out there. ... It's that pressure that's nonstop that you live with."


I just don't see the need for it to continue, it's a hazardous unhealthy job, I understand enforcers always have a choice, they don't have to pursue NHL fighting, but once you reach that point in juniors, that's your job if you ever want to play in the NHL. I think the NHL needs to outlaw it and save these player's from themselves, I don't see a reason the NHL should keep promoting fighting. I understand hitting would be next, I wouldn't like it, but if it will end up saving lives then I might change my mind, but I can't recall an NHLer that died prematurely due to hits, that didn't have a premature heart condition, or a situation like Masterson's. It took Ludek Cajka's death for no touch icing to be introduced for example.

Terrence Tootoo, Trevor Ettinger, Don Sanderson(hit head on ice after fight), Boogard, Rypien all died do to suicide/drugs, all were heavily involved with fighting. Only two other cases of drug/suicide the past ten years that weren't enforcers, Roman Lyashenko, Tom Cavangah(was hospitalized several for schizophrenia).



Edited by Carman, 18 August 2012 - 09:44 PM.


#36 Ally

Ally

    just figured out how to change my title

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 463 posts
  • Location:Canada

Posted 18 August 2012 - 10:57 PM

I played Juniors, I played semi-pro, I saw first hand the dread that enforcers had of their next fight, and knowing damn well the only way they can get that next paycheck is to go out and fight.


When my family had WHL players billet with us we had two guys that were considered "enforcer" type players and neither of them ever dreaded their fights with the exception of one time maybe. Most of the fights were either planned ahead of time, started by two guys to get their teams going when neither team was doing much, or a fight for retribution from a dirty hit and when it came to those they said they didn't mind fighting someone to show their team that they had their back.
I know fighting is a touchy subject with some people but I really do think it has a place in hockey and a lot of people would stop watching if it was taken out. It has less to to with our barbaric love of violence and a lot more to do with preserving tradition in a sport that seems hellbent on becoming soccer.

Edited by Ally, 18 August 2012 - 10:58 PM.

 
"Everything he does is exciting to watch.” -Holmstrom describes Datsyuk


#37 joesuffP

joesuffP

    Hall-of-Famer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,797 posts

Posted 18 August 2012 - 11:48 PM

I loved jagr and voracek Responses after voracek got kronwalled...

Then there's keslers....

#38 Red Wings Addict

Red Wings Addict

    This is how I watch Wings games

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,749 posts

Posted 19 August 2012 - 12:18 AM



Should Kronwall have to answer the bell for his hits?

  • Yes (5 votes [10.00%])
  • No (45 votes [90.00%])


Wow, an overwhelming majority voted no. I shouldn't be too surprised since this is LGW but I didn't think the majority would be that big. Where's the staunch pro-enforcer crowd at eh? :boxing:

It's still interesting to see that 9 out of every 10 fans don't think Kronwall should have to fight after his hits. Some good points by everyone though. I wonder how different the results would be if I had a "Sometimes" option. Oh well, too late for that now.

#39 GMRwings1983

GMRwings1983

    The Killer is Me

  • Silver Booster
  • 20,159 posts
  • Location:Jerkwater, USA

Posted 19 August 2012 - 12:22 AM





Wow, an overwhelming majority voted no. I shouldn't be too surprised since this is LGW but I didn't think the majority would be that big. Where's the staunch pro-enforcer crowd at eh? :boxing:

It's still interesting to see that 9 out of every 10 fans don't think Kronwall should have to fight after his hits. Some good points by everyone though. I wonder how different the results would be if I had a "Sometimes" option. Oh well, too late for that now.


I would have voted sometimes. Otherwise, I abstained from voting.
According to my profile, my reputation is excellent. LOL.

#40 martinezsvsu

martinezsvsu

    3rd Line Checker

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 381 posts

Posted 19 August 2012 - 12:28 AM

i understand enforcers sticking up for their star players when they get hit, even if the hit is clean. wings had players like that in the past. go ahead and try to fight kronwall, tootoo burt or ab will step in goon style now that kronwall is one of our stars





Wow, an overwhelming majority voted no. I shouldn't be too surprised since this is LGW but I didn't think the majority would be that big. Where's the staunch pro-enforcer crowd at eh? :boxing:

It's still interesting to see that 9 out of every 10 fans don't think Kronwall should have to fight after his hits. Some good points by everyone though. I wonder how different the results would be if I had a "Sometimes" option. Oh well, too late for that now.

some players fight, some players dont. just because he is a big hitter doesnt mean he has to fight.





Similar Topics Collapse

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users