96 replies to this topic

[GMRwings1983]

I dont get why the Wings cant dress one tough guy. Its not like their bottom 6 is some elite scoring squad or something. Fricking Tomas Holmstrom.

[The Axe]

Good call.

[number9]

you're right I am arguing the mental aspect of the position enforcers are in causes more mental harm. I'm not discussing the injuries hitting verse fighting causes, I'm discussing deaths.

How many of these hits have caused suicides? I understand that it's not clear cut scientific data, but just from my personal experience and viewpoint it make sense to me that the enforcing position in hockey is very unhealthy much more-so than hitting, as evidenced by the death's of Terrence Tootoo, Trevor Ettinger, Don Sanderson, Boogard, Rypien, and Belak.

Who has died from a hit on the ice? I guess we can use heart illness that triggers from hits, if we do that we have one Markus Wächter, that died due to complications stemming from a bodycheck, but was later announced he had a heart illness. So over the same period of time it's a 6 to 1 ratio on deaths of fighters to non fighters.

So the NHL has been around since 1917....almost 100 years.....and thousands of fighters have taken to NHL ice in that time, and you have a list of 6 players???? I know there have been a couple of unusual tough guy deaths recently....but those deaths are just that....NOT USUAL. And most of those suicide deaths were guys who struggled with addiction, not to mention you have no idea what other problems besides addiction that they were dealing with in their personal lives as well....yet you wanna pin the whole suicide on the fact that hockey allowed him to get hit in the head a lot? Sorry but even if I was anti-fighting I would still call this a very poor argument.

The enforcer system was the best system out there. It was run and facilitated by the players and coaches themselves and worked better than the system in place today. Enforcers made sure dirty crap didn't happen and if it did you got punished for it. Then the enforcers also had their own little side game...which was the heavy weight bouts that were just as much for the fans as they were for themselves...You had big name fighters like Probie and Domi who would square up just to see who would win that round and prove that they are the bigger, tougher, better fighter....you would have thought they hated each other but they actually had huge respect for each other....these were big, tough, nasty.....yet honorable men

Nowadays guys are running everyone, slamming heads into boards, hitting to the head, flopping, the list goes on and on. And the NHL keeps trying to make more and more and more rules to stop it....but you can't stop it. Let the players handle it, they did a better job at handling it than the NHL has, despite their best efforts. Let them handle it, they know best... instead we have baby-proofing do-gooders stepping in and telling them how to play their own sport. In the players poll last year it was something like 99% of NHL players said fighting should not be removed from hockey....they want fighting just as much as the fans do. It has a place....even in this post-lockout league.

And don't get me started on your fighting versus hitting argument....by your logic we would have to remove hitting as well....anddd just as many if not more health concerns arise from hitting, just not as many to the head.

[The Axe]

I served one of the best fighters in the league food at my dads restaurant growing up and i asked him one day if he didnt like the other guys he fought. He said he hated fighting the other enforcers and only did it because the team needed it. He said almost all of em were good friends.

[Dabura]

Hits mess you up.

[datterberg1340]

as long as he keeps them clean, he should not have to fight over it, though plenty of times the opposition has felt he ought to anyway

[The Axe]

as long as he keeps them clean, he should not have to fight over it, though plenty of times the opposition has felt he ought to anyway

Yup. You bang someone, you fight if challenged.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

I guess he shouldn't have to, but he shouldn't back away from the rough stuff. When you absolutely clock the opposing team's star players, clean hit or not, guys are gonna come after you. Don't just stand there as they all beat on you. He shouldn't be afraid to fight.

If the opposition even touched Yzerman in the '80s, Probert, Kocur, and Gallant beat 'em into the ice. If the opposition even touched Gretzky in the '80s, Semenko and McSorley beat 'em into the ice. Didn't matter whether the hits were clean or not. Eventually, players were forced to answer the bell.

I think it is annoying that a mugging ensues after every clean hard hit, though. Take a hit and play the game. In essence, what that kind of stuff does is it deters clean, hard hitting.

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros, 22 August 2012 - 01:13 AM.

[evilzyme]

i completely disagree with eliminating fighting in the sense that it would cause more harm. it would give everyone a free pass to go play dirty, go throw a hard ass hit folding a top 3 skater. then what? we just scream, "hey! stop that please!" fighting has a place and time in hockey, unfortunately thats what's changed over the generations. everyone looks to fight when its not needed.

[KATIEBARTHEDOOR24]

i completely disagree with eliminating fighting in the sense that it would cause more harm. it would give everyone a free pass to go play dirty, go throw a hard ass hit folding a top 3 skater. then what? we just scream, "hey! stop that please!" fighting has a place and time in hockey, unfortunately thats what's changed over the generations. everyone looks to fight when its not needed.


This is a perfect post. You sir, are correct.

Too put blame on fighting as a reason of death. It's not right, most if not all players mentioned had at some point or another had alchohol and or drug problems. Prescription or not.

[KATIEBARTHEDOOR24]

The respect factor or fighters code has gone by the wayside. It's sad really.

[number9]

I guess he shouldn't have to, but he shouldn't back away from the rough stuff. When you absolutely clock the opposing team's star players, clean hit or not, guys are gonna come after you. Don't just stand there as they all beat on you. He shouldn't be afraid to fight.

If the opposition even touched Yzerman in the '80s, Probert, Kocur, and Gallant beat 'em into the ice. If the opposition even touched Gretzky in the '80s, Semenko and McSorley beat 'em into the ice. Didn't matter whether the hits were clean or not. Eventually, players were forced to answer the bell.

I think it is annoying that a mugging ensues after every clean hard hit, though. Take a hit and play the game. In essence, what that kind of stuff does is it deters clean, hard hitting.

My boss is friends with Shawn Burr and he was telling me that during a big on ice brawl one time Burr hit Gretsky.....the next time the two teams played the Wings coach sent Burr out on to the ice without Probert or Kocur..... and when Burr saw McSorley matching up with him on the puck drop he realized he didnt have Probie or Kocur with him and he tried to skate back to the bench....the Wings coach apparently stopped him from getting back on the bench and told him "You need to learn that you don't hit 99"... he then preceded to have his face pounded in by McSorley....just shows how much respect they had for stars back in the day and how well the enforcer system actually worked. I mean a coach allowed his own player to have his ass beat for being a little rough with an opposing star lol

The respect factor or fighters code has gone by the wayside. It's sad really.

gotta get rid of that instigator rule.....do-gooders think theyre helping people but they're just destroying the sport we love, the sport our parents loved, and the sport they're parents loved.....my kids won't even know what real hockey is by the time the baby-proofers get done with it

[The Axe]

Agreed, #9

[jollymania]

If it was dirty yes.

[BryceWings]

Just because he has awesome timing for his Kronwalling doesn't mean he has to answer to the receivers buddies. Now if it was dirty hitting then I he should expect to answer.

[newfy]

Just because he has awesome timing for his Kronwalling doesn't mean he has to answer to the receivers buddies. Now if it was dirty hitting then I he should expect to answer.

Kronwalls hits are usually clean but not always. Thats why I think just to keep some respectability, when another teams star comes calling after you decked him with a borderline hit Kronner should throw off the mitts every now and then.

That game in Philly after the Voracek hit got out of hand and everyone was getting ran at because they were so upset about the hit, but also the fact that Kronwall wouldnt man up. I know that was a clean hit, but thats an example of when doing it wouldnt hurt you or the team and might stop Rinaldo from running at Ericcsons head

[cusimano_brothers]

Isn't Shanahan paid to do this?