[Retired] Official Lockout Thread

[Pskov Wings Fan 71]

Yes, you are right owners come up with idea of cap to restrict PA growing power. However, in the free market, they would love to pay what they think is reasonable and players are free to sign or reject.

As far as I understand it was pretty much free market before the last lockout. And it was the owners who wanted cap because apparently they did not have the money to pay what they (owners) thought was reasonable when they signed players. I am saying that past evidence do not support the idea that owners want free market and players don't.

[Nightfall 871]

He definitely demonstrated a hate for unions, but that is neither here nor there and doesn't contribute to this thread anymore.

I am still trying to figure out where he demonstrated a hate for unions. It certainly wasn't said in this thread. At least I don't see it.

[rrasco 1,312]

I am still trying to figure out where he demonstrated a hate for unions. It certainly wasn't said in this thread. At least I don't see it.

I'm not going back through the thread, but indications are that post was deleted it anyways.

[ami 273]

Ami mind discussing your hate for unions in the politics session of this board? Thought we should only discuss the lockout not the cons and pros of unions.

Agree. This is exactly what I'm discussing here. I have once answered question if I know anything about unions in general. If this is considered offtopic, accept my appologies. Other than that, I'm sorry, I am discussing the lockout. If you disagree with me, as most here, that's fine, but nevertheless this is not a reason to shut me up. Is that understood? Edited September 18, 2012 by ami

[ami 273]

Thats funny, considering you emphatically state over and over that, and I quote, "owners need more money to cover increased expenses".

So even though you admittedly have absolutely no clue what the expenses are, your argument is that you just somehow know that the increased expenses are so severe that they require a nearly 50% rollback of player salaries over the last 2 CBAs while revenues simultaneously have risen by over 50%.

You took my arguments out of context.

You keep saying what union's reps were says, and I keep saying what league's were saying. However, my talks are funny and have no ground while yours are universaly known truth.

I said I haven't seen teams financial statement, but PA saw them for sure. However, they don't argue expense increase, they argue how much...

I am still trying to figure out where he demonstrated a hate for unions. It certainly wasn't said in this thread. At least I don't see it.

I once said: 'yes, I dislike unions in general'

English is obviously not my native language, but I'd never thought dislike is a synonym for hate. Well, I also dislike milk. Or should I now hate it?

Edited September 18, 2012 by ami

[Nightfall 871]

I'm not going back through the thread, but indications are that post was deleted it anyways.

Well, in the end, no one has been willing to comment on the points he made. I suppose its easier to complain about someone's stance than it is to reply to a very good point.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

As has been mentioned, the thread pertains to the lockout not the discussions of unions and their role in business and whatnot.

There were posts in the thread that have been deleted and don't need rehashing. Nothing to see here, move along.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Fact of the matter is, this is a partnership and a partnership should benefit both sides. I am more than sure some players made all these concessions last time because they were thinking "we are done with that crap finally" but no here we go again.

If owners really have given out contracts they never expected to life up to well then things could get ugly for them. I mean, I am not going to buy a car for 50.000 and then all of a sudden decide I am only willing or able to pay 25, 30 or whatever less for it, business doesn't work that way.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

I'm not going back through the thread, but indications are that post was deleted it anyways.

After a quiet day on Monday, the NHL and NHL Players' Association spoke on Tuesday night and, while there are no meetings scheduled, the two sides plan on talking again on Wednesday.

Edited September 18, 2012 by cusimano_brothers

[esteef 2,679]

apparently the iihf isnt approving nhl players transfer cards that is required to play in the iihf leagues including the khl. they bring up how the nhl has "pressured" the khl and has a strong hold on them influence wise so this may be a tatic from the league to prevent its locked out players from playing hockey in general. things turning.into a giant gongshow here boys

You just dated yourself there Mr.!

esteef

[drwscc 212]

Fact of the matter is, this is a partnership and a partnership should benefit both sides. I am more than sure some players made all these concessions last time because they were thinking "we are done with that crap finally" but no here we go again.

If owners really have given out contracts they never expected to life up to well then things could get ugly for them. I mean, I am not going to buy a car for 50.000 and then all of a sudden decide I am only willing or able to pay 25, 30 or whatever less for it, business doesn't work that way.

Sure it does. It's called the car gets repossessed, and the dealer gets to sell it again. There are ways to get out of destructive contracts, and people take them all the time. Buy more house than you can afford, and lose your job? Under your scenario, too bad, you're an indentured servant until you pay what you owe. I mean, why should the bank give you a break. You're the one who signed the contract. Noone put a gun to your head and made you get a house.

[Guest Johnz96]

For all those saying that Bettman represents the owners and just does what they want him to here is a list from The Hockey News annual 100 People of Power and Influence issued in January this year.

http://www.google.ca... ... aA&cad=rja

Edited September 19, 2012 by Johnz96

[sibiriak 84]

Sure it does. It's called the car gets repossessed, and the dealer gets to sell it again. There are ways to get out of destructive contracts, and people take them all the time. Buy more house than you can afford, and lose your job? Under your scenario, too bad, you're an indentured servant until you pay what you owe. I mean, why should the bank give you a break. You're the one who signed the contract. Noone put a gun to your head and made you get a house.

In all your examples, the people breaking contracts don't get to keep the things they bought. The NHL owners want to break the contracts, but still have the use of players' services. That is what makes the players mad.

[Guest The Axe]

Funny how the fans dont get brought up in this discussion. Im in 100% football mode right now. Hockey is dying.

[chances14 227]

Funny how the fans dont get brought up in this discussion. Im in 100% football mode right now. Hockey is dying.

football sucks

[Ytsejam 1]

...here is a list from The Hockey News annual 100 People of Power and Influence issued in January this year.

http://www.google.ca... ... aA&cad=rja

That thread is from 2006

I don't know the ins-and-outs of the cba negotiations, but do you think a shortened season would be beneficial to the wings? Around the 60 game mark last season, DET was #1 in the NHL :]

Edited September 19, 2012 by Ytsejam

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Sure it does. It's called the car gets repossessed, and the dealer gets to sell it again. There are ways to get out of destructive contracts, and people take them all the time. Buy more house than you can afford, and lose your job? Under your scenario, too bad, you're an indentured servant until you pay what you owe. I mean, why should the bank give you a break. You're the one who signed the contract. Noone put a gun to your head and made you get a house.

Ok my bad then should have clarified it:

Basically some owners bought the car for the full price but they knew fully well, this is not what they are willing to pay for it. They aren't asking for repossession, owners want to keep the car but not pay the demanded price for it although they've agreed to do so weeks/months.

[chances14 227]

That thread is from 2006

I don't know the ins-and-outs of the cba negotiations, but do you think a shortened season would be beneficial to the wings? Around the 60 game mark last season, DET was #1 in the NHL :]

i managed to dig out my hockey news people in power issue for this year and sidney crosby is listed as number 1 followed by bettman at 2 and fehr at 3.

there are only 7 owners listed in the top 100 and illitch isn't one of them

I do think a shortened season will help the wings out. less chances for them to get injured before the playoffs start

[RippedOnNitro 22]

football sucks

Football rules!

[kylee 727]

Football is boring and douchey. There, I said it.

[Guest Johnz96]

http://www.facebook.com/groups/boycotttheNHL/

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

It would be nice if both sides try to make the "small groups" concept work; it can work. I guess that's the only option left.

[Nightfall 871]

A great article

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/a-lost-nhl-season-could-happen-again/article4552510/

---

So you can clutch at straws and hope for the best by dismissing the events of the past 72 hours as the usual rhetoric and posturing – or you can go all Chicken Little and think the sky really is falling.

The evidence for pessimism seems far stronger, and that’s largely because Fehr has the players convinced that their givebacks during the lost season of 2004-05 mean that the onus is on the owners to compromise this time.

---

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

http://www.facebook..../boycotttheNHL/

As pissed off as I am that the NHL is locked out yet again, I'm gonna come crashing back like an excited kid when the NHL resumes. If it was boycottBettman or fireBettman, i'd be 110% onboard.

They said the CBA negotiations were hard to get started during the season, but the only 4 people in all but 1 meeting have been Bettman, Daly and the Fehr's so i'm not seeing why they couldn't have had bi-weekly conference calls with the owners and PA and have the same 4 guys meet during the year. We would likely be waiting to see training camps right now and not disappointed that another lockout is here and have horse s*** facebook groups making boycott NHL groups.

How about a facebook page for bring back the NHL? I may even join that one and i have no time for facebook these days.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

A little detail I hadn't really considered. The NHL cancels all insurance coverage on its players when they lock them out, including their families health insurance. They did it in 94 and 2004 as well.

The NHLPA is paying the players insurance premiums during the lockout.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/8396384/source-nhlpa-cover-premiums-players-nhl-lockout