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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread

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I just saw the meeting only lasted an hour today. That's basically enough time to present the three proposals and for the NHL to say no thanks.

Then both sides heading back to the corners.

This has been the most frustrating part of this lockout so far (aside from the fact that the league has been making record revenues and the stoppage seems completely unjustified). How can we believe two parties are actually trying to negotiate and reach an agreement when what we get is weeks between meetings that are scheduled for 90-minutes and can barely make it more than an hour before breaking for another week or so. Millions, even billions of dollars hang in the balance, not only for the league, owners, and players, but for arena personnel and local businesses. Where is the f***ing urgency?

These are professionals trying to reach a compromise?

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This has been the most frustrating part of this lockout so far (aside from the fact that the league has been making record revenues and the stoppage seems completely unjustified). How can we believe two parties are actually trying to negotiate and reach an agreement when what we get is weeks between meetings that are scheduled for 90-minutes and can barely make it more than an hour before breaking for another week or so. Millions, even billions of dollars hang in the balance, not only for the league, owners, and players, but for arena personnel and local businesses. Where is the f***ing urgency?

These are professionals trying to reach a compromise?

Agreed.

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@FriedgeHNIC: Am personally curious about NHLPA proposal 3, the 50/50 plus contracts being protected. Dispute appears to be...

@FriedgeHNIC: that NHL feels salary money would be "hidden" outside the system. After both sides calm down and stop breathing fire, we'll see if this...

@FriedgeHNIC: Idea would have any traction. For the first time, though, I see a deal. We won't have 82 games, but something decent.

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Its going to be interesting to see what these proposals were. Right now, I don't believe either of these blowhards. Let the PR spin commence.

SitOnFence.jpg

The only reason Craig Leopold was there was to remind Uncle Gary that he's already put in the order for the Minnesota Wild 2013 Stanley Cup Champions banner and the deposit is non-refundable.

I thought Mr. Fehr did an excellent job of providing the history of how the players gave up too much in the last negotiations and how they are being asked to give up more...again during his press conference..

"None of the three variations of player share that they gave us even began to approach 50-50, either at all or for some long period of time," Bettman said.

"It's clear we're not speaking the same language."

Fun Fact: Uncle Gary can say the word "no" in umpteen different languages.

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NHL has been asking Ferh brothers this question for almost a year now. It looks like these unions pigs don't care.

Pigs or not but the owners who signed huge contracts this summer anticipating never to honor their full value (Craig Leipold comes to mind) need a lesson in fair dealing. I do not know if NHLPA has enough leverage and determination to win but I do not fault them for trying.

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Pigs or not but the owners who signed huge contracts this summer anticipating never to honor their full value (Craig Leipold comes to mind) need a lesson in fair dealing. I do not know if NHLPA has enough leverage and determination to win but I do not fault them for trying.

Well I hope they do win, these damn NHL ********* meaning the undersized midget and his gambling owners need to learn a lesson. If am a player and this thing continues over a year I'd take my new "owner" to court a contract is a binding, free-will agreement between two sites and to me it is absolutely clear some owners never wanted to life up to the contracts they've given out, to me thats blindsiding and I hope they are going to pay a price for that.

At this point I really don't care if e we have a season or not, all I want is Bettman gone asap and so are some of the so called owners, don't want to spend m oney? Don't own a hockey club, we need more owners like Pegula, Illitch, and less douchebags like Jacobs, Leonsis, Samueli...

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It appears the unions 3rd proposal, where it is 50/50 in year 1 isn't actually 50/50. NHL estimates its actually comes out to 56-57 percent on year 1. Union admitted that it did not run the numbers on the 3rd proposal. I think this is revenge for the owners disguised "whole" provision in their offer from tuesday

Edited by chances14

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It appears the unions 3rd proposal, where it is 50/50 in year 1 isn't actually 50/50. NHL estimates its actually comes out to 56-57 percent on year 1. Union admitted that it did not run the numbers on the 3rd proposal. I think this is revenge for the owners disguised "whole" provision in their offer from tuesday

Union has never proposed 50/50 in the first year. It is just not possible to do it without cutting existing contracts. Their proposals include gradual reduction of the players share by giving larger portion of the future revenue growth to owners. So it might be getting to 50/50 by the end of the deal assuming some particular rate of revenue growth.

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Union has never proposed 50/50 in the first year. It is just not possible to do it without cutting existing contracts. Their proposals include gradual reduction of the players share by giving larger portion of the future revenue growth to owners. So it might be getting to 50/50 by the end of the deal assuming some particular rate of revenue growth.

It's just too bad that revenue growth will take a step back because of the lockout.. The longer it goes on, the less revenue growth we'll see in upcoming years.

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It appears the unions 3rd proposal, where it is 50/50 in year 1 isn't actually 50/50. NHL estimates its actually comes out to 56-57 percent on year 1. Union admitted that it did not run the numbers on the 3rd proposal. I think this is revenge for the owners disguised "whole" provision in their offer from tuesday

Not sure 'revenge' would be the right word, but I would guess it's semantics similar to the league's proposal.

They call it 50%, but I'd assume it doesn't count any amount over that that is used to pay existing contracts. Just like the league's proposal calls the later years 50% when in fact part of that 50% is used to pay back what gets taken in the first few years.

Both amount to the same thing: A higher percentage to start (even if only in money earned rather than actually payed), and falling from there. Same thing as most of the other proposals, just couched a bit differently.

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Union has never proposed 50/50 in the first year.

yes they did

Fehr said the first offer would hit 50-50 in three years (players received 57 percent of revenues in the recently expired CBA), the second would reach 50-50 by the fifth year and the third would hit 50-50 immediately, but only if owners honor all current contracts at 100 percent.

link

both sides have been guilty of masking offers to look better than it actually is for the other side.

It's just too bad that revenue growth will take a step back because of the lockout.. The longer it goes on, the less revenue growth we'll see in upcoming years.

that's the sad and ironic part about the lockout. the league and players are fighting for less money each day this lockout drags on for

Edited by chances14

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nice little article by lebrun

here's the most notable parts

The NHL, to its credit, or more precisely NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly, came up with a creative mechanism in Tuesday’s offer that tried to address making the players "whole" in their current contracts.

Regardless of whose argument you buy on whether that mechanism flies or not, the bottom line is that the NHLPA doesn’t accept its current definition as any kind of solution.

But here’s the key: The NHL, a source told ESPN.com, reiterated to the NHLPA in Thursday’s meeting that it is willing to play ball on that concept, that it is willing to be more flexible in trying to find a solution to keep players "whole" on their contracts.

If that sounds like an invitation from the league to continue to try to find a way on that crucial point, it is. And NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr himself hinted at wanting more clarification on the matter and you can only deduce that will invite more dialogue.

imo it sounds like bettman was just pouting to the media today because fehr didn't take the offer as is.

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@TSNBobMcKenzie: Personally, I'll tune out rhetoric and wait to see what next few days brings. Often a difference between public comments/private sentiment.

Yup, lets hope for the best. Thats all we can do.

I am disappointed with the NHL at this stage. It doesn't seem to me that both parties are that far off. I don't agree that the NHL should be able to cut current contracts. Pay the players every dime of the deals that the owners and players signed for in the past. At the same time, I am disappointed with both parties for only talking for an hour and then leaving. Get in there and hammer out a deal.

Edited by Nightfall

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One thing Fehr said really stood out to me, about how Bettman and Daley only take 10-15 minutes to shoot stuff down, and don't even talk to the other owners.

Obviously Bettman isn't speaking for all the owners, has put himself in a position (only needing 8 owners backing him) where he can do whatever he wants, and can't lose his job.

There's NO DOUBT Bettman's the problem!

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...that's the sad and ironic part about the lockout. the league and players are fighting for less money each day this lockout drags on for

I don't think that's certain. Considering growth after the last two lockouts, I wouldn't be too surprised to see revenues go either way.

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It is easy.

Go with 50/50. Honor current contracts. But use reduced value of old CBA contracts to calculate salary cap. All new contracts will use full value for cap calculations.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

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My only question is...do the players realize that they are already giving up percentages of their salary with each missed paycheck during this lockout?

They are telling everyone each time they want their contract to be honored 100%...but in the meantime they already lost 1 of 12 paychecks this year...essentialy giving up 8% of their salary.

They also have to realize that when the next batch of games is canceled...the chances are only getting smaller that the owners are willing to honor their contracts in full, whatever construction they want to use.

I hope that the PA shares their proposals with the media, so I can have a look for myself how they want to get to 50/50 in the first year without giving up salary...

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Allan Walsh@walsha

If Bettman put the NHLPA proposals today before ALL NHL owners for a vote, we would be heading to training camps tomorrow.

Without having read this entire thread, has any started the discussion about how Mr.Ilitch may be one of the hurdles that this negotiation is facing? Seems logical since a couple of key points in the negotiations are cap circumvention (which he did) and revenue sharing with smaller clubs (which he does a lot).

Maybe he's lobbying hard to save money so he can fully fund a new arena! LOL

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Without having read this entire thread, has any started the discussion about how Mr.Ilitch may be one of the hurdles that this negotiation is facing? Seems logical since a couple of key points in the negotiations are cap circumvention (which he did) and revenue sharing with smaller clubs (which he does a lot).

Maybe he's lobbying hard to save money so he can fully fund a new arena! LOL

Hell, if anything, I bet Illitch would be voting FOR the proposal, not against. You seem to forget that Illitch is a responsible owner. If anything, the owners voting against the CBA would be the irresponsible ones.

One thing we do know is that 8 owners are against these agreements. When you have 20 irresponsible owners, its not hard to find 8 of them.

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Hell, if anything, I bet Illitch would be voting FOR the proposal, not against. You seem to forget that Illitch is a responsible owner. If anything, the owners voting against the CBA would be the irresponsible ones.

One thing we do know is that 8 owners are against these agreements. When you have 20 irresponsible owners, its not hard to find 8 of them.

Er...

Henrik Zetterberg - 12 yr/$73,000,000 until 2020

Johan Franzen - 11 yr/$43,500,000 until 2019

Niklas Kronwall - 7 yr/$33,250,000 until 2018

Every one of those contracts, under the NHL proposed CBA, would be hit for cap circumvention. Here's a good article:

NHL lockout: League proposal would punish teams that circumvent cap with long-term contracts

Doesn't seem like Mr. Ilitch would be too eager to back Bettman on this.

Edited by Esquire

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Er...

Henrik Zetterberg - 12 yr/$73,000,000 until 2020

Johan Franzen - 11 yr/$43,500,000 until 2019

Niklas Kronwall - 7 yr/$33,250,000 until 2018

Every one of those contracts, under the NHL proposed CBA, would be hit for cap circumvention. Here's a good article:

NHL lockout: League proposal would punish teams that circumvent cap with long-term contracts

Doesn't seem like Mr. Ilitch would be too eager to back Bettman on this.

Yet, through the contracts, Illitch would still be making a profit. You think he is making more or less of a profit now that NHL games aren't being played? The only teams that want the lockout at this stage are the ones that are losing money.

You do bring up a good point though, and the only way we are going to know the answer is by talking to Mr. Illitch on these issues. Until then, we are left to guess and speculate.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/19852/cba-talks-not-as-dire-as-they-look

Lets hope this is right.

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A bit of clever marketing by a Canadian Junior "A" hockey team:

Inspired by the NHL and the NHLPA's dispute over revenue sharing, the Surrey Eagles of the BCHL have decided to give its fans a good deal.

The term "50-50" has been thrown around quite a bit since the two sides began negotiations this summer. In memory of the 57/43 split from the previous CBA, the Eagles decided to change their raffle ratio accordingly.

Fans will be licking their chops at the increased pay out as the Eagles play host to the Vernon Vipers on Friday night.

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