Euro_Twins 4,475 Report post Posted October 25, 2012 Good article by James mirtle talking about money difference between players and owners proposals. Lot closer than we might think http://www.theglobea...article4634609/ It is a lot closer than what bettman is claiming it to be. The problem is Bettman wants to "win" this war to prove he is better than Fehr, Which is why he refuses to meet without preconditions, and why it's his offer or nothing. If Bettman's offer is the one they use, he looks great to the owners and to the fans. If Fehr wins the war he looks great to the players and fans, and Bettman possibly (hopefully) gets canned. It's all just a PR battle, it wouldn't matter if they were $50 apart or $600 million 1 55fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 Uncle Gary used to say that he doesn't negotiate in the media. Now, Uncle Gary says he doesn't negotiate. 4 frankgrimes, haroldsnepsts, Euro_Twins and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 It is a lot closer than what bettman is claiming it to be. The problem is Bettman wants to "win" this war to prove he is better than Fehr, Which is why he refuses to meet without preconditions, and why it's his offer or nothing. If Bettman's offer is the one they use, he looks great to the owners and to the fans. If Fehr wins the war he looks great to the players and fans, and Bettman possibly (hopefully) gets canned. It's all just a PR battle, it wouldn't matter if they were $50 apart or $600 million Good summary if both would put their egos aside things would be easier. Everyone is talking about the damn split but the real problem is tied to the other things. Biut whatever there are other leagues to watch. Sent from my BlackBerry 1 Rick D reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thegerkin 189 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 It's just a pissing contest. Two little schoolboys not backing down, They will decide who pisses when and where they can piss. - sorry, I'm just pissed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
55fan 5,133 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 It is a lot closer than what bettman is claiming it to be. The problem is Bettman wants to "win" this war to prove he is better than Fehr, Which is why he refuses to meet without preconditions, and why it's his offer or nothing. If Bettman's offer is the one they use, he looks great to the owners and to the fans. If Fehr wins the war he looks great to the players and fans, and Bettman possibly (hopefully) gets canned. It's all just a PR battle, it wouldn't matter if they were $50 apart or $600 million Good summary. Both are posturing for the end of the next CBA. They're both letting each other know that they are going to win from now on no matter what so that whichever one blinks first on this one will be considered the "weak" one for the next go-round. Let's hope that the next CBA gets signed through 2199. I should be good and dead by then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jedi 1,865 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 Harrison Mooney with Puck Daddy posted a good summary of the NHL pulling the offer off the table, and provides a little insight into just how PR-oriented the NHL's offer was. I'd recommend giving it a read. Some highlights... I would imagine that, even before Daly assured the players he wasn't threatening them, they weren't all that threatened. The proposal that's come off the table? They sort of rejected it last week. This is a little like parents removing the vegetables from the dinner table because their child refuses to eat them. Of course, like the offer itself, this dramatic withdrawal isn't so much about what the players think. It's about what we think, and it has been since it hit NHL.com last week. I would argue that the proposal wasn't designed to save the 82-game season so much as it was designed to look like it was designed that way, thereby making the players seem like a bunch of jerks when they looked it over and came to the reasonable conclusion that it wasn't for them.We can mourn the loss of the 82-game season, but keep in mind that we already did that back at the beginning of October when the NHL canceled the first block of games. More than anything, the last two weeks have really been about re-staging that mourning in a way that redirects our anger at the players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drwscc 212 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 That is pretty apropros. The vegetables are something the children need to stay healthy. But hey, hope the players continue to enjoy their scurvy. Some day, candy coated vegetables will come to them if they just keep refusing to eat them, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeverForgetMac25 483 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 I've just flat-out had it. I fear for the future of North American sports as lockouts have become the norm upon the expiration of any given CBA. As much as it pains me to admit, I don't see negotiations and deals getting done anytime before the last minute or later going forward in any of the big 4. Great job NA sports....way to piss on the fans who actually make all of you your money! 2 haroldsnepsts and Rick D reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightfall 871 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 A great article on why firing Bettman or Fehr would solve nothing. http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/firing-gary-bettman-donald-fehr-won-t-solve-123818740--nhl.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter So let's say it happens today. Right now. As you're reading this. Bettman: Fired. Fehr: Fired. Then what? Does the NHLPA just go out and get a guy who won't carry the water in a way they see fit, and instead bows to whatever terrible offer Bettman shoves across the table of some highrise boardroom? Do the owners go out and get a guy who's going to listen more carefully to NHLPA offers and consider them with all due weight and respect, and prosecute this war on players' rights with more leniency? If you think the answer to either question is, "Yes," then please contact your local law enforcement agency, as you are probably a danger to yourself and others. The tough-guy posturing would continue regardless. Whoever replaced Bettman or Fehr would have the same bosses — whether there are 29 or 700-something of them — and would probably not be allowed to drastically alter their courses of action. Again, unless one side gets desperate (that would be the players, and them only) neither one seems likely to blink any time soon, and even if they did, they'd dance with who brought them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,475 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 A great article on why firing Bettman or Fehr would solve nothing. http://sports.yahoo...._medium=twitter The only reason Bettman has so much power is because he gave himself it. He chose who to put on the board, and created the rule of needing 23 owners to overturn him, after he gathered up his group of 8 owners that will always do what he says they should. They are like a gang of schoolyard bullies, one guy bullying them while the rest of the group cheers him on behind him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightfall 871 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 The only reason Bettman has so much power is because he gave himself it. He chose who to put on the board, and created the rule of needing 23 owners to overturn him, after he gathered up his group of 8 owners that will always do what he says they should. They are like a gang of schoolyard bullies, one guy bullying them while the rest of the group cheers him on behind him. Point is that if Bettman was fired, then the next guy would be doing the same thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rrasco 1,312 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 Just waiting for the announcement about more cancelled games.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 Point is that if Bettman was fired, then the next guy would be doing the same thing. Many people have made this unprovable claim, but really how could anyone possibly do worse? The NHL by far leads the 4 major pro sports in games lost and that's all occurred under Bettman's reign. He's not just a patsy for the owners. He's supposed to be the steward of the league. I'd like to think they could find someone who of course would still have the interests of the owners in mind, but be able to use other strategies in negotiations than just the lockout. Instead of seeing the realignment as an opportunity for the league to involve players and establish some good will headed into the CBA negotiations, Bettman used it as a show of force and PR stunt to try and make the union look bad. Then followed it up with a first proposal that was essentially "F You!" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BottleOfSmoke 5,965 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 Just waiting for the announcement about more cancelled games.... Not official, but... @AnsarKhanMLive: NHL's cancellation of Nov. games later today scraps 13 more Wings games, for total of 23 so far. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 (edited) Andy Strickland @andystrickland Sources say #NHL pulled latest offer from the table partly because not every owner liked the deal. Several clubs weren't on board John Buccigross @Buccigross NHL sources tell me the NHL will cancel Winter Classic and All Star Game. Announcement presently scheduled for Monday. once they cancel the winter classic, i'm done following this lockout stuff since i have tickets to it and was the only reason why i really hoped that this lockout wouldn't last the entire season. wake me up when these guys get a deal done. Edited October 26, 2012 by chances14 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pskov Wings Fan 71 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 Point is that if Bettman was fired, then the next guy would be doing the same thing. This is why they should go with a good looking gal rather than "the next guy". 1 55fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BottleOfSmoke 5,965 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 once they cancel the winter classic, i'm done following this lockout stuff since i have tickets to it and was the only reason why i really hoped that this lockout wouldn't last the entire season. This is what I still don't understand. The players don't stand to make any additional money for participating in the WC, do they? It's THE LEAGUE that is going to rake in an assload of $ so this logic just makes no sense to me! I would think they would be waiting until well into November before they start looking at cancellation. Any business brains out there have any insight? Or is this just a continuation of the wild d!ck swinging we've been so lucky to have witnessed so far? I'm going to print off 2 copies of my receipt for my WC tix, wipe my hiney with them, and send them to the league and the PA. Happy lockout y'all! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 This is what I still don't understand. The players don't stand to make any additional money for participating in the WC, do they? It's THE LEAGUE that is going to rake in an assload of $ so this logic just makes no sense to me! I would think they would be waiting until well into November before they start looking at cancellation. Any business brains out there have any insight? Or is this just a continuation of the wild d!ck swinging we've been so lucky to have witnessed so far? I'm going to print off 2 copies of my receipt for my WC tix, wipe my hiney with them, and send them to the league and the PA. Happy lockout y'all! i think they are doing it to get rid of any possible leverage that the players might think they have over the owners with the winter classic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 getting some conflicting reports now Tim Panaccio @tpanotchCSN Again, Bill Daly said MON was NOT a day the league would axe Winter Classic. I think it's mid to late week and they will push it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jedi 1,865 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 NHL officially announced the cancellation of all games through November 30th. A total of 326 games scrapped, which accounts for 26.5% of the season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 NHL officially announced the cancellation of all games through November 30th. A total of 326 games scrapped, which accounts for 26.5% of the season. I think that brings the total to 2,024 regular season games lost under Bettman. He's increasing his record lead. And while the owners outvoted Bettman and saved half the season and playoffs in '95, you can add the entire 2004 Stanley Cup playoffs to that total. By comparison MLB is next closest with 948 games and the NBA has lost 704. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jedi 1,865 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 And while the owners outvoted Bettman and saved half the season and playoffs in '95, you can add the entire 2004 Stanley Cup playoffs to that total. That's a minimum of 60 games, maximum of 105 games. So that's at least 2,084 games lost, probably closer to 2,100 games or more... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rrasco 1,312 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 I wish that NHL announcement had a comments section. You know, they used to have comments on NHL.com articles... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jedi 1,865 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 We're all thinking it, Ian White's just saying it... Wings' Ian White: "It seems like everything Bettman does is in spite. Seems like what he does is meant to send a message, or for leverage.'' Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted October 26, 2012 We're all thinking it, Ian White's just saying it... Bettman has a napoleon complex. Or maybe a tiny penis. At the very least he lacks any sort of diplomacy skills. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
