Nightfall 871 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/20084/lockout-would-denigrate-winter-classic If I’m a fan today, I’m angry that the league and NHLPA haven’t been able to resolve their differences in labor talks. It’s an absolute disgrace that the lockout even had to last into November, never mind the possibility it may go even longer than that.It should not have been that hard to figure out how to divvy up the revenue pie. And for that, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr deserve all the criticism they’re getting from fans. But it’s my opinion that when it comes to Friday’s cancellation of the Winter Classic, it was the right move, and the only move. This season is going to be a sham either way. Let’s not denigrate the Winter Classic with it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 that's a great article by lebrun. hopefully illitch makes it to next year to see it. by the looks of him he might not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rrasco 1,312 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 that's a great article by lebrun. hopefully illitch makes it to next year to see it. by the looks of him he might not. I have had the same feeling. That picture of him on the field at Comerica, he didn't look good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BottleOfSmoke 5,965 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 that's a great article by lebrun. hopefully illitch makes it to next year to see it. by the looks of him he might not. This is my fear as well. What a horrible day for the city of Detroit that will be. Hang in there Mr. I! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeytown0001 7,652 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 Dear NHL - Love, Red Wings fans everywhere Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 Per Dreger's twitter: As we just discussed on Sportscentre. NHL advised PA it will absorb share of Make Whole provision. This is a considerable concession. If this turns out to be true (both that the NHL actually said it would do this and that the math supports their claim), then they better be able to knock out a friggin deal very very soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BottleOfSmoke 5,965 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 Per Dreger's twitter: If this turns out to be true (both that the NHL actually said it would do this and that the math supports their claim), then they better be able to knock out a friggin deal very very soon. How ironic would it be if a deal came a day too late to save the WC? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 Per Dreger's twitter: If this turns out to be true (both that the NHL actually said it would do this and that the math supports their claim), then they better be able to knock out a friggin deal very very soon. at the very least it should be able to get each side back to the bargaining table Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 2 sides are expected to meet no later than early next week http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=408711 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 what???? Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger The NHL's verbal offer to absorb some or all of Make Whole was made Tuesday. 3 days ago?? PA wants more detail before getting too excited. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightfall 871 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 At this point, I am not concerned when it was proposed. It was verbal, but you have to wonder if Fehr had his fingers in his ears and was posturing for he last week. Either that or the NHL is spreading lies. So lets make that a push. Lets hope this results in a deal by thanksgiving. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted November 2, 2012 what???? Darren Dreger @DarrenDreger The NHL's verbal offer to absorb some or all of Make Whole was made Tuesday. 3 days ago?? PA wants more detail before getting too excited. After the "50/50" deal the NHL proposed, I'm not surprised. Considering where both sides are at the moment, they're certainly not going to take anything on faith. It all comes down to if the math (and legalese) is in line with what they're claiming. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 After the "50/50" deal the NHL proposed, I'm not surprised. Considering where both sides are at the moment, they're certainly not going to take anything on faith. It all comes down to if the math (and legalese) is in line with what they're claiming. Another PR move and I am sure some of the ,,I only read the headline - because my attention span is that small" guys will pretty much fall in love with those greedy bastards again. Fehr is right, let's see the numbers first and how they are trying to tweak it again... Either start serious negotiations or keep your mouth shut, I am sick of this PR back and forth moves. 1 55fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 Another PR move and I am sure some of the ,,I only read the headline - because my attention span is that small" guys will pretty much fall in love with those greedy bastards again. Fehr is right, let's see the numbers first and how they are trying to tweak it again... that's exactly what fehr did with that 3rd proposal. i don't recall you blasting fehr for that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toby91_ca 620 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 S Fehr and Daly to meet tomorrow at undisclosed location Just to note, the "profit" numbers being used here are actually operating income. Before taxes, interest, depreciation, and amortization. None of us really have any idea what the real profits are. The average team is carrying about $100M in debt, which could certainly eat up that operating income. However, we don't know the real details. Regardless, the revenue disparity is still the biggest problem. I don't see how that can be true ($5-6M on average per team that is). Last year the owners' share of revenues after paying the players was about $52M per team. I know it costs approximately $30M to run a team before player salaries, so I'm not sure where that other $15M or so goes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Playmaker Report post Posted November 3, 2012 The only ones to blame are the fans. After the 2005 lockout, I cancelled my season tickets,(despite those generous "Joe Bucks") haven't purchased a single Wings or NHL merchandise and watch maybe half the games on TV. Back then, I thought I couldn't live without hockey, but the NHL proved me wrong. The fans have pretty much bent over and handed Gary Bettman the Astroglide. He's having these conference calls with the owners telling them not to worry, the fans will come back and sadly, he's probably right. How different things might be now if the NHL was playing to mostly empty arenas after the last lockout. Then 5 or 6 years from now when the same thing happens, the fans are going to be like huh, what, a lockout??? What's the saying...fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me (unless you're GWB). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rrasco 1,312 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 Per Dreger's twitter: As we just discussed on Sportscentre. NHL advised PA it will absorb share of Make Whole provision. This is a considerable concession. If this turns out to be true (both that the NHL actually said it would do this and that the math supports their claim), then they better be able to knock out a friggin deal very very soon. I'm not even sure I know what that means. And on that note, I'm not even sure I ever understood the make whole provision to begin with. I tried, it just never clicked. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hiei 192 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 Even if they knock out a deal, I can't come to visit beautiful Detroit and Ann Arbor this year Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 So, the League has wheeled out the "trojan horse" for the players to look at? Be careful, lads. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 (edited) Mathieu Schneider has an interesting proposal: a cap on escrow. Edited November 3, 2012 by cusimano_brothers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
55fan 5,133 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 Mathieu Schneider has an interesting proposal: a cap on escrow. From that article: The idea of a cap on escrow has been an under-reported part of these negotiations, largely because both math and the definition of escrow are involved. That made me laugh. Mostly because I can't do math. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 I'm not even sure I know what that means. And on that note, I'm not even sure I ever understood the make whole provision to begin with. I tried, it just never clicked. I know what you mean. I read the NHL's proposal with the make whole provision, I read Fehr's explanation to players, and while I get the basic concept or make whole I can't say I really understood all the nuts and bolts of how it worked in the proposals. So once again I'm trying to look at this in a positive light but the issue is pretty convoluted and the NHL offered to pay for "a share" of the make whole provision. Who knows what percentage that will be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Euro_Twins 4,475 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 What if Bettman actually paid $250k payment for the winter classic but said he cancelled it, and now is trying to push the PA to make a deal so he doesn't lose the owners money... Just a ridiculous thought, for fun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 Per Dreger: I'm certain of this, based on number of texts received from players. They want a deal and want their leadership to focus on getting it done. Not to say the players are caving...they're not, but they want focus to remain on negotiations and away from petty memos to media. I hope this is true. It'd be great if there's pressure from both owners and players for the leaders to spend less time on press releases and more time locked in a room hashing out a deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted November 3, 2012 Per Dreger: I hope this is true. It'd be great if there's pressure from both owners and players for the leaders to spend less time on press releases and more time locked in a room hashing out a deal. hopefully it is. i have a feeling that the winter classic being cancelled might have woken some of the players up in realzing that the owners aren't bluffing the problem i see is that, simliar to bettman, fehr, has has almost unlimited power so if he's on his own agenda, there's nothing that the players can really do about it. http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/article/1265993--nhl-lockout-don-t-expect-a-mutiny-in-the-nhlpa-cox just something to keep in mind also this from strickland #NHL informed #NHLPA last week they're prepared to come off stance on certain issues. Are we seeing signs of NHL finally ready to negotiate? Several players on #NHLPA conf. call encoraging PA to not push #NHL away and to engage the league Talking to players...if #NHL moves on contract rigjts that dont hurt young or future players it could lead to #NHLPA vote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites