BottleOfSmoke 5,965 Report post Posted November 29, 2012 Absolutely disgusting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightfall 871 Report post Posted November 29, 2012 Another prime example of how the BOG/NHLPA crap on their bread & butter - aka - the fans. Plenty of other hockey to watch. I am watching KHL streams when I can and I am going to more Griffins games. The NHL is a distant memory to me. 1 F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted November 29, 2012 (edited) The BOG ors hould I say midgets ******* can go eff off. I hope the league will never recover from that and we'll see the rise of a new one, without a workstoppage every 5 years. This time there are no superstars in the making, no big games to be played...fans and sponsors are pissed. I highly doubt the NHL knows what they are doing. This freaking lockout is also not for the better of the game, if the great game of hockey would really coun't, there would have been a lot of different moves. Midget will need tons of bodyguards whenever hockey is back thats for sure. Edited November 29, 2012 by frankgrimes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drwscc 212 Report post Posted November 29, 2012 1 hillbillywingsfan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted November 29, 2012 bettman wants to have an owners/players meeting without any of league/nhlpa leadership brass present Sources confirm that NHL commissioner Gary Bettman is awaiting response from NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr on a proposal that owners and players have a bargaining session without any NHL or NHLPA leaders or staff in the room. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410527 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 Words from Uncle Billshut: “Today, we concluded two days of mediation with FMCS mediators and representatives of the NHL Players’ Association. After spending several hours with both sides over two days, the presiding mediators concluded that the parties remained far apart, and that no progress toward a resolution could be made through further mediation at this point in time. We are disappointed that the mediation process was not successful.” Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crashnburnluder 385 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 Words from Uncle Billshut: RIP NHL season 2013.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 the next step will be decertifcation, which will effectively end this season and possibly at least part of the next season Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jedi 1,865 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 the next step will be decertifcation, which will effectively end this season and possibly at least part of the next season I don't think they'll decertify just yet. They might give Bettman's "players & owners only" idea a spin. Or they might decertify. At this rate, who the hell really knows... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 I don't think they'll decertify just yet. They might give Bettman's "players & owners only" idea a spin. Or they might decertify. At this rate, who the hell really knows... The "players and owners only" meeting is a terrible idea for the players. The players should counter by challenging the owners and bettman to a pickup game of hockey. Winner gets everything they want in the CBA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
55fan 5,133 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 The "players and owners only" meeting is a terrible idea for the players. The players should counter by challenging the owners and bettman to a pickup game of hockey. Winner gets everything they want in the CBA. Put Bettman in goal and put it on pay-per-view. Bettman gets shellacked, the league recoups its financial losses, and the players get to start the season with a warm, fuzzy feeling in their hearts. 5 Z Winged Dangler, redwingmachine, amato and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 Put Bettman in goal and put it on pay-per-view. Bettman gets shellacked, the league recoups its financial losses, and the players get to start the season with a warm, fuzzy feeling in their hearts. Sounds like a plan to me. People love to quote the Forbes report from a couple years ago. Well Forbes just valued the Leafs franchise as being worth $1 billion dollars. That's a B, not an M. And last season the NHL experienced 9% growth in revenue, and the average value of an NHL team was worth 18% more than the previous season. Makes perfect sense they'd lock the players out and cost a season in that kind of terrible economic environment. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410452 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 The latest attempt to circumvent negotiations bring to a total, by my count, of two. This is unpresidented in sports labour negotiations. "Negotiating in good faith" is a totally foreign concept to Uncle Gary. What's next; a voucher given to each player from the League, good for the purchase of a turkey? To these eyes, there is no more proof necessary that Uncle Gary's Christmas wish is to bust the union. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jedi 1,865 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 The "players and owners only" meeting is a terrible idea for the players. Not that he's the end-all-be-all authority on anything, but Danny Cleary at least is is keen on the idea... And while it may prove to be a terrible idea for the players, it does at least address one question that we've seen raised several times here. The question of "What would happen if Bettman and Fehr (and their substantial egos) were not involved in the process?" In the end, I don't think anything would come of that kind of a meeting, especially if hawks like Jacobs and Leonsis are involved. But it would at least be interesting to see what might happen with a direct meeting like that... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 Not that he's the end-all-be-all authority on anything, but Danny Cleary at least is is keen on the idea... And while it may prove to be a terrible idea for the players, it does at least address one question that we've seen raised several times here. The question of "What would happen if Bettman and Fehr (and their substantial egos) were not involved in the process?" In the end, I don't think anything would come of that kind of a meeting, especially if hawks like Jacobs and Leonsis are involved. But it would at least be interesting to see what might happen with a direct meeting like that... Hell at this point they should try just about anything. I guess it's good Bettman actually asked the union this time before trying the end around of owners talking directly to players. Mostly I just meant that this definitely benefits the owners more than players. There's nothing they'd love more than to negotiate directly with players during contract negotiations and CBA negotiations. It'd be like the pre-NHLPA days. If hockey players were great at negotiations, they wouldn't need agents. Meanwhile they're sitting across from billionaire owners with extensive business and negotiating experience, as well as a massive support staff to help them. Either way, my main position is still f*** this league. With the growth this league has enjoyed during this last CBA, the prudent move would've been a compromise that wouldn't lose games and damage the integrity and public faith in the NHL. What both sides gave up on the negotiating table would've been recouped fairly quickly. Instead they're still arguing over how to arrange the deck chairs on the titanic. 2 Z Winged Dangler and vladdy16 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StormJH1 231 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 Hell at this point they should try just about anything. I guess it's good Bettman actually asked the union this time before trying the end around of owners talking directly to players. Mostly I just meant that this definitely benefits the owners more than players. There's nothing they'd love more than to negotiate directly with players during contract negotiations and CBA negotiations. It'd be like the pre-NHLPA days. If hockey players were great at negotiations, they wouldn't need agents. Meanwhile they're sitting across from billionaire owners with extensive business and negotiating experience, as well as a massive support staff to help them. Either way, my main position is still f*** this league. With the growth this league has enjoyed during this last CBA, the prudent move would've been a compromise that wouldn't lose games and damage the integrity and public faith in the NHL. What both sides gave up on the negotiating table would've been recouped fairly quickly. Instead they're still arguing over how to arrange the deck chairs on the titanic. My position is that I could use all the nasty rhetoric I want, but the fact is that they're ALREADY losing money they could have had from me. I spend between $100-$300 on tickets per year, usually on the two Wings games in Minnesota, plus some other Wild games. I was planning on dropping the $100+ for the first time on either Center Ice or whatever the AppleTV app (GameCenter?) is to watch out-of-market Wings games. Not to mention I was a reliable set of eyeballs on NHL broadcasts. And there's people who spend FAR, FAR more than I do. They're already losing my money. I don't need to pretend like I won't come back for it to hurt, it should already hurt them. As for mediation, I had zero confidence that it would do anything, as did most of the reason. But while most people were focusing on the non-binding aspect, they're missing the point. The industry I work in does non-binding mediation also, but it is often very successful. The difference is that the parties view the mediator as a proxy for what an arbitrator or judge might LATER conclude in a subsequent binding proceeding. Here, there is no final binding procedure, so even if the mediator came in, railed on one side and told them "you're going to lose", it wouldn't amount to anything. I'm actually surprised how many regular fans are buying into this notion AGAIN that the players are responsible for these teams not being able to operate at a profit. The Forbes story has tons of flaws, I'm sure, but is it really any less reliable than the self-reporting being done by Bettman and the owners? They have no interest in representing their businesses as "successful" in any way during these negotiations, and we don't have the actual numbers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jedi 1,865 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 Dreger reposted a few novel ideas for the players & owners meeting... Interesting idea (not mine)...Don Fehr picks the 4-6 owners the players want in mtng, while Bettman selects players. Another concept to consider for meeting. 4-6 owners, 2 GM's, 2-4 top agents and collection of players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BottleOfSmoke 5,965 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 Dreger reposted a few novel ideas for the players & owners meeting... I like both of those ideas, much more than Bettman picking the owners and Fehr picking the players. We all know Bettman would pick the owners hanging from his nuts and who the hell knows what players Fehr would pick. It would just lead to the same head butt we've been seeing thus far... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barrie 900 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 Nothing's going to happen until the season ticket holders start canceling their tickets http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/1295514--nhl-lockout-season-ticket-holders-leave-money-with-teams#.ULkDJXFI2Jw.facebook Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightfall 871 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 (edited) Nothing's going to happen until the season ticket holders start canceling their tickets http://www.thestar.c...XFI2Jw.facebook I know a few friends of mine who have. I don't know many who have season tickets though. I have told this story before, but one of my friends has season tickets to the Blackhawks and has had them for 8 years. Before the season started, the Hawks took 1/2 payment up front for the season tickets. This really upset a lot of season ticket holders because of the impending lockout. Now, the Hawks are paying people back every week there aren't games. So every week they get a check for 3-4 games worth of tickets that didn't get played. These are for 4 seats at about $50 per ticket so they get a check for $600-$800 each week. Oh, and if you want all your money back now, the Hawks will do it but you lose your season tickets for next season and there is a waiting list for season tickets now in Chicago. I know if I was in this situation, I would be really pissed off. I believe the biggest problem is that you have more corporations buying season tickets than you have real fans. The cost to go to a game these days is not cheap. The real fans cannot afford to go to many. It is considered to be a luxury. That luxury is one many cannot afford. Besides, watching them on HDTV at just the cost of their cable/satellite is more affordable. Many corporations will not be canceling their season tickets because those tickets are used to bring business in. Hell, if I had season tickets, I would be cancelling in a heartbeat. Edited November 30, 2012 by Nightfall Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barrie 900 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 (edited) I know a few friends of mine who have. I don't know many who have season tickets though. I have told this story before, but one of my friends has season tickets to the Blackhawks and has had them for 8 years. Before the season started, the Hawks took 1/2 payment up front for the season tickets. This really upset a lot of season ticket holders because of the impending lockout. Now, the Hawks are paying people back every week there aren't games. So every week they get a check for 3-4 games worth of tickets that didn't get played. These are for 4 seats at about $50 per ticket so they get a check for $600-$800 each week. Oh, and if you want all your money back now, the Hawks will do it but you lose your season tickets for next season and there is a waiting list for season tickets now in Chicago. I know if I was in this situation, I would be really pissed off. I believe the biggest problem is that you have more corporations buying season tickets than you have real fans. The cost to go to a game these days is not cheap. The real fans cannot afford to go to many. It is considered to be a luxury. That luxury is one many cannot afford. Besides, watching them on HDTV at just the cost of their cable/satellite is more affordable. Many corporations will not be canceling their season tickets because those tickets are used to bring business in. Hell, if I had season tickets, I would be cancelling in a heartbeat. Yea I think we aren't seeing a bigger amount of season ticket cancellation, is because most of them are owned by corporations. They can take the loss, plus everything is a tax write off anyway. Bettman's using this as leverage, but it's really not a true represenation of what he majority of fans are thinking. It's like being a Maple Leafs fan, even if you want to try and protest the 45 years of horrible management, the corporations buy all the seats and the team is still making it's huge profits despite losing, so they'll never see their team win. It's unfair, Bettman can use the corporations to his advantage. It's not the players who are greedy, it's Bettman. Edited November 30, 2012 by Barrie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DatsyukianDekes 2,428 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 Nothing's going to happen until the season ticket holders start canceling their tickets http://www.thestar.c...XFI2Jw.facebook Good luck, the Leafs have a 20 year waiting list for season tickets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 It's unfair, Bettman can use the corporations to his advantage. It's not the players who are greedy, it's Bettman. both sides are being greedy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 Josh Yohe @JoshYohe_Trib Consensus from players: They don't care if Bettman is around or not. They do care if Jacobs and same old owners are present at next meeting. if the players don't care then why do they keep blaming bettman??? article debating the benefits of a player/owners only meeting Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hillbillywingsfan 792 Report post Posted November 30, 2012 (edited) if the players don't care then why do they keep blaming bettman??? article debating the benefits of a player/owners only meeting Maybe it's only the handful of players that have been unprofessional that have spoken out that really care if "Little Person Big World" is there or not? Maybe the other players know that the owners are more to blame then "little person buttman" dur hur Edited November 30, 2012 by hillbillywingsfan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
