amato 3,210 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 kinda funny how right when bettman and fehr get back into the fold, things all go to sh*t.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rrasco 1,312 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 Nick Cotsonika @cotsonikaBettman: Bottom line is union is suggesting because we moved, close to deal. But moves were contingent on things union did not agree to. Nick Cotsonika @cotsonikaBettman: The characterization that we were close, that reminds me of the last time the union said we were close and we were $1B apart. Nick Cotsonika @cotsonikaBettman: Spinning us into "emotional frenzy" is unfair. Nick Cotsonika @cotsonikaBettman: We have moved dramatically. We are proposing long-term system that will pay players billions. Nick Cotsonika @cotsonikaBettman: I am disappointed beyond belief that we are where we are tonight. Need to take a deep breath and try to regroup. Nick Cotsonika @cotsonikaBettman: Things added to table this week are now off the table. Nick Cotsonika @cotsonikaBettman: Made best offer, then stretched. Went further than we should have. When it didn't get right response, clubs wanted make-whole gone. Nick Cotsonika @cotsonikaBettman: I wanted to do everything possible to try to get to a deal. Nick Cotsonika @cotsonika Daly: This whole week has been about a package deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,789 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 No kidding. I think I'm in an abusive relationship with the NHL. Fehr has had his doomsday speech, then cue Bettman whining about not having a willing negotiating partner and we're back right where we started. again. and again. Speaking of doomsday, Fehr reminds me of Dr. Strangelove, and all these meetings remind me of the "War Room" in the movie. These morons will never get anything accomplished. Except this s*** isn't funny and the league will be ruined after this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BottleOfSmoke 5,965 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 Oh boo hoo, now we're pulling things off the table again. Only fitting because it seems like a bunch of toddlers have been running these negotiations all along. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 kinda funny how right when bettman and fehr get back into the fold, things all go to sh*t.... No kidding. My favorite parts of Bettman's speech: Bettman: Owners said union "clearly doesn't want to make a deal." Players wanted to get back on track. Bettman: Owners outlined what key elements they needed in exchange for pension plan, so they were expecting yes or no. Bettman: It wasn't intended to be a negotiating session. Answer wasn't "yes." So he claims the NHLPA doesn't want to make a deal, but the owners basically said "take it or leave it" regarding the pension plan. Makes sense. I'm glad Bettman looks rattled. Hopefully because he's worried about losing his job. Lebrun: Bettman confirms the elements the league added to the table this week are now OFF the table Bettman says the Make Whole provision in its entirety as a concept is OFF the table. There's so much b.s. and spin going on I can't even tell what they actually are still disagreeing on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 No kidding. My favorite parts of Bettman's speech: So he claims the NHLPA doesn't want to make a deal, but the owners basically said "take it or leave it" regarding the pension plan. Makes sense. I'm glad Bettman looks rattled. Hopefully because he's worried about losing his job. Lebrun: There's so much b.s. and spin going on I can't even tell what they actually are still disagreeing on. "my way or no way" - Bettman.... it's like his negotiating tactics have been the same since he was 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BottleOfSmoke 5,965 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 Bettman and D. Fehr's careers should be OFF the table. I will never understand the take my toys and go home mentality. So, because the progress they made didn't lead to a deal, they should scorch the earth and set negotiations and any leftover good will back to square one? There is a clear absence of common sense in that room... 2 haroldsnepsts and F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 "my way or no way" - Bettman.... it's like his negotiating tactics have been the same since he was 5 That's the thing, it's just so friggin hard to tell. From what I read on TSN it sounds like the league made a pretty good offer, one that should be able to get worked into a final deal. Then it sounds like the union comes back closer to their demands but not accepting them outright, so the league bolts again. Could it possibly be true they rejected the offer via voicemail?? But it's all so much conjecture I can't really even tell how far apart they are. I know the league wants 10 year CBA, didn't the union propose 8 years? Have both sides not heard of the number 9? And while I think not honoring existing contracts is a screw job, it seems like something the owners are willing to sacrifice at least one season for. And the league apparently did increase make whole money. but it gets convoluted so friggin fast. Though it is pretty funny Bettman saying the NHLPA offer was insulting to the owners, given what the owners first offer in this whole mess was. 1 chances14 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 That's the thing, it's just so friggin hard to tell. From what I read on TSN it sounds like the league made a pretty good offer, one that should be able to get worked into a final deal. Then it sounds like the union comes back closer to their demands but not accepting them outright, the league bolts again. But it's all so much conjecture I can't really even tell how far apart they are. I know the league wants 10 year CBA, didn't the union propose 8 years? Have both sides not heard of the number 9? And while I think not honoring existing contracts is a screw job, it seems like something the owners are willing to sacrifice at least one season for. And the league apparently did increase make whole money. but it gets convoluted so friggin fast. Though it is pretty funny Bettman saying the NHLPA offer was insulting to the owners, given what the owners first offer in this whole mess was. agreed. i don't know what they are disagreeing on at this point. bettman isn't doing himself any favors right now. letting emotions get the best of him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 That's the thing, it's just so friggin hard to tell. From what I read on TSN it sounds like the league made a pretty good offer, one that should be able to get worked into a final deal. Then it sounds like the union comes back closer to their demands but not accepting them outright, so the league bolts again. But it's all so much conjecture I can't really even tell how far apart they are. I know the league wants 10 year CBA, didn't the union propose 8 years? Have both sides not heard of the number 9? And while I think not honoring existing contracts is a screw job, it seems like something the owners are willing to sacrifice at least one season for. And the league apparently did increase make whole money. but it gets convoluted so friggin fast. Though it is pretty funny Bettman saying the NHLPA offer was insulting to the owners, given what the owners first offer in this whole mess was. Bolded is exactly what I was thinking when i first read he thought the offer was insulting.... but no matter how "bad" the deal was or whatever, i don't see why the NHL wouldn't at least sit back down and talk about it rather than saying "nope! bye!" ....which is the impression I'm getting. i'm sure the PA offer was something to work off of/their best one yet, otherwise why would they offer it? idk, maybe i'm wrong.. just seems dumb to stop negotiating right now.. or at all for that matter. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rrasco 1,312 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 The owners were insulted that they added almost $100M to the make whole provision (from $211M to $300M, which $50M was to come from player revenues) and the PA didn't accept their offer as-is. I can't believe he said it wasn't a negotiation, if that was an accurate quote. How do they expect this to work? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BottleOfSmoke 5,965 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) Bolded is exactly what I was thinking when i first read he thought the offer was insulting.... Thirded. The only thing "insulting" about the PA's offer is that they dared NEGOTIATE off the NHL's last offer. Isn't that what they're supposed to be doing?! Edit: spanked by rrasco! Edited December 7, 2012 by BottleOfSmoke Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rrasco 1,312 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 Make whole provision is off table entirely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stevieisthebest 80 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 Make whole provision is off table entirely. Why don't they just call the season right now then? How the hell could they do this, grow up. I'm so devastated by tonight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 Make whole provision is off table entirely. i dont buy that for a second. that is pure posturing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rrasco 1,312 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 I am having Twitter problems again, but was following on my phone. Bettman just laid it all on the line. I'm blown away by what just happened. Steve Fehr and a contingent of players were in the room listening. It sounded tense. And Bettman literally just threw a fit. Can't imagine any less than 48 games. Said there is no magic date. His was Oct 11, the start of the season. Then he said he was being told it's Jan 1. So now we have a date. Make whole is off the table. Everything this week is off the table. Lebrun says expect statements from all 4 owners that were present this week. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 more Comm-ic relief.. heh Mike Commodore @commie22 If @cemmer48 ever #dumped me via voicemail I would come completely unglued. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 Thirded. The only thing "insulting" about the PA's offer is that they dared NEGOTIATE off the NHL's last offer. Isn't that what they're supposed to be doing?! Edit: spanked by rrasco! Bettman's response to essentially that very question: Bettman: "It's easy to say keep negotiating. At some point, you have to be in a position to say, 'This is what we need.' " So he keeps claiming the NHLPA isn't interested in negotiating, but then follows it by what sounds like take it or leave it demands by the league. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 oh boy Scottie Upshall @ScottieUpshall There's no pressure yet on the owners to lose this year, that's why they still treat us like Cattle. They'll need a partner come January. if this is the attitude of the players and fehr, they are going to be in for a rude awakening. these nhl owners are a different breed than other pro sports owners 1 hillbillywingsfan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amato 3,210 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 oh boy if this is the attitude of the players and fehr, they are going to be in for a rude awakening. these nhl owners are a different breed than other pro sports owners if that is the players and ferh's attitudes, and they don't change.. kiss the season goodbye. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chances14 227 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 (edited) owners statementon cba talks We were therefore surprised when the Fehrs made a unilateral and "non-negotiable" decision - which is their right, to end the player/owner process that has moved us farther in two days than we have moved at any time in the past months. i believe this is what pissed the owners and bettman off the most Edited December 7, 2012 by chances14 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightfall 871 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 Though it is pretty funny Bettman saying the NHLPA offer was insulting to the owners, given what the owners first offer in this whole mess was. Fehr is pontificating to the media as well. Both sides in this are just sickening. As I said earlier...If Fehr really thinks he can push the NHL owners around like he had with MLB - well goodbye NHL season 2012/2013. At this point, I believe Fehr has a ulterior motive. He will move to impose a luxury tax after the season is cancelled. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vladdy16 2,154 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 Synopsis of events per Russo here, as well as a couple of owner statements. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
haroldsnepsts 4,826 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 owners statementon cba talks i believe this is what pissed the owners and bettman off the most That's what I don't get. According to TSN: Fehr said the two sides had agreed on the significant money issues, that includes accepting the NHL's Make Whole offer.The owner-player only dynamic was terminated earlier in the day as the players insisted the negotiations once again be opened up to anyone they want to bring in. That makes it sound like it came from the players themselves, not some unilateral decision by the Fehrs. There's just so much misinformation out there right now as each side blames the other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightfall 871 Report post Posted December 7, 2012 owners statementon cba talks i believe this is what pissed the owners and bettman off the most I believe that both sides have pissed on each other many times through the course of this negotiation. The players and owners both have a right to be furious. That being said, their dislike for each other is going to result in the season being cancelled. At this point, I am glad there are other hockey alternatives. The NHL owners and players aren't getting any of my money for a long time. Greedy f***s. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites