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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread


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#1981 vladdy16

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:05 AM

No way a deal gets done tonight, but I've been laughing like a loon reading a lot of those tweets.
Can't wait to read the "Phoenix: I still think it's a hockey market" chapter of Gary Bettman's autobiography. I'm guessing it's going to be chapter 11.

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#1982 chances14

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:08 AM

On that note, If****** hate Twitter and it's stupid SSL errors. I don't know what I just did, god forbid I perform a search on the site, and now I can't access it at all due to SSL errors. Can't even add an exception.

For the last 6 months I couldn't use Twitter because of this. Recently it started working, and of course now, nothing. If I can't get this site to work and I work in IT. They done f***ed up.


never had that problem. have you tried using different browsers on your computer?

I don't even have a twitter because I think it is dumb. Most relevant sports related posts on twitter get posted here anyways, so i am cool with that :)


somebody's gotta have a twitter or else those wouldn't be posted on here lol

I agree. I only get on it to check for breaking news in times like these. And the god damnf****** site won't work when I need it to. Of course.


the only times i really use twitter is during the nhl trade deadline day and the free agency period and now obviously during this lockout

I really miss the days, of having useful, well thought out news on an actual homepage instead of this twitter crap. Guys like MacKenzie, LeBrun and Dreger should stick to using tsn.ca instead of shortmessage-system aka twitter.

As long as nothing has been made official, I will remain skeptical.


those days are long gone. people want news and information as soon as possible because we have all be spoiled by the internet and twitter. they don't care about well thought out news articles.

Edited by chances14, 06 December 2012 - 12:09 AM.


#1983 amato

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:15 AM


Greg Cirrone@Cirrone5

This podium has already been more of a factor in the regular season than the leafs usually are #podiumwatch


I'm enjoying these "podium watch" tweets wayy too much.. :P gotta love hockey humor.

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#1984 Euro_Twins

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 12:27 AM

I can see the headlines

"The wonder boy does it again! Sidney Crosby not only can play hockey like a God, but he can also save an nhl season. On a side note during celebrations the other 17 players lifted him up in celebration, and he fell to the floor getting a concussion and will be out 1-2 seasons..."
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#1985 Crashnburnluder

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:23 AM

I'm confused! Is there really a podium watch, are they really still meeting!!! What's going on!!!

#1986 Euro_Twins

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 01:30 AM

I'm confused! Is there really a podium watch, are they really still meeting!!! What's going on!!!


I dunno, I am tired of waiting. I'm going to bed.

EDIT: I actually just found this, meeting is now over, worth a read

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410987

Edited by Euro_Twins, 06 December 2012 - 01:32 AM.

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#1987 chances14

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:27 AM

from tsn

The league's offer Wednesday night offered a raise in money devoted to the 'make-whole' provision. The number in the latest offer jumped to $300 million, up from $211 million in the league's previous offer. The players had previously asked for $389 million, making the owners' latest offer an exact middle ground between the previous offer and the players' demands.


The proposal submitted was for a 10-year term for the next CBA, with rules governing unrestricted free agency and salary arbitration to remain unchanged from last season. The league did not budge on its request for a five-year term limit on player contracts and held firm to a maximum year-to-year salary variance of five per cent.

The league's offer did, however, offer an exception on contract lengths for the re-signing of free agents. Teams would be allowed to re-sign their own free agents to contracts up to seven years in duration.


Bob McKenzie@TSNBobMcKenzie
What the NHLPA will like about NHL offer: status quo on UFA and salary arbitration.

What NHLPA may not like about NHL proposal: $300M Make Whole, up from $211M offer, which more or less splits difference on NHLPA ask $393M.

What NHLPA definitely won't like about NHL offer: 5 year term limit on contracts (except 7 for own UFAs), 5% variance, 10 year term for CBA.


i can't for the life of me figure out why the players want such a short term cba. for one, you know the owners are going to ask for more concessions next time around so why would you want to subject yourself to it after only 5 years, not to mention that the possibility of more lost wages in another lockout. and james mirtle makes a good point::

James Mirtle@mirtle
Frankly, a 10-year CBA probably helps players in long run. A 50-50 split eight or nine years from now likely means very high average salary.


i also hope that these negotiations don't fall apart on contracting issues that only affect a small minority of players. how many players have signed a contract longer than 5 years in their careers?

and this from grange

According to sources close to the negotiation it was Buffalo Sabres goalie Ryan Miller who lost his temper briefly, which seemed to encourage further dialogue, although at another point Boston Bruins hard line owner Jeremy Jacobs threatened to leave the negotiation. At that point a more moderate group of owners including the Pittsburgh Penguins' Ron Burkle and the Tampa Bay Lightning's Jeff Vinik agreed to keep the negotiation going.


jacobs is a complete moron. this guy is way worse than bettman

but it's nice to see these other owners stepping up and making jacobs back down. this should have happened months ago.

Edited by chances14, 06 December 2012 - 02:31 AM.


#1988 chances14

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:01 AM

interesting point brought up by freidman regarding pension

Elliotte Friedman@FriedgeHNIC
Twitter stream coming: that pension issue by mentioned by @TSNBobMcKenzie is a thorny one. Here's why: pension laws are different in US...

and Canada. US teams can pay approx $20,000 more than Canadians tax-free. So, it's an advantage if you're playing south of border...

because you are shielded from those taxes and Canadian teams making up the difference aren't protected from paying them

Canadian teams want more protection, which is why $50M would be included in make whole. But, players would look at it as...

That's our money already. Was warned today this would be a problem, now I see what it is.



a few more tweets

Darren Dreger@DarrenDreger
Players may not love the leagues proposal, but, it might be enough to encourage a full membership vote. Make Whole will always be an issue.


Bob McKenzie@TSNBobMcKenzie
Couple of other details emerging: NHL proposal for 10 year CBA term contains an opt-out clause after 8 years. So it could be an 8 year deal.

Of the $300M NHL proposed for Make Whole, $250M is Make Whole and $50M is for pension funding that would not come out of the players' share.


James Mirtle@mirtle
Been told for months players more likely to give on variance than strict term limit, preserving DiPietro deals. Still believe that the case.

In any event... two sides so close now, how can they NOT get a deal done?



article by lebrun summarizing the day up


and finally a couple more tweets before i log off for the night

Katie Strang@KatieStrangESPN
#CBA Told by multiple sources there is growing concern among union abt current format moving fwd. PA wants no restrictions on who's in room

#CBA Some concern that this format could be ploy to drive wedge among union membership. One source described today's session as "bizarre"

#CBA No restrictions on who is in room would mean both Don Fehr and Gary Bettman could be back in the fold


Edited by chances14, 06 December 2012 - 03:10 AM.


#1989 F.Michael

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 07:52 AM

Key points from LeBrun...

Raising the total money in its Make Whole provision to $300 million from the previous offer of $211 million. This is a key move to say the least.

League backs off contracting-rights demands on unrestricted free agency age (27) and salary arbitration, offering to keep both the same;

However, the league stays firm on five-year term limits for contracts and 5 percent salary variance; the only exception is when a team re-signs its own free agent it could go to seven years in term

League wants 10-year term on CBA (union has asked for five-year term).

Seems reasonable to me...Drop the puck already!

Edited by F.Michael, 06 December 2012 - 07:54 AM.


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#1990 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:14 AM

This a total crapshoot. However, before (on the off chance) he reminds everyone at his next "air-wasting podium update": this was all Uncle Gary's idea, even though he's orchestrating everything the owners are doing. He doesn't want them to tarnish his image at "labour negotiating".

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#1991 vladdy16

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:21 AM

Not only is #podiumwatch still the Number 1 trend on Twitter, there is now a Top 10 NHL Podiums and a "History Will Be Made" for it.
Can't wait to read the "Phoenix: I still think it's a hockey market" chapter of Gary Bettman's autobiography. I'm guessing it's going to be chapter 11.

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#1992 Jedi

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:30 AM

Not only is #podiumwatch still the Number 1 trend on Twitter, there is now a Top 10 NHL Podiums and a "History Will Be Made" for it.


The NHL Podium is a freaking genius...

Just sitting here on a stage by myself like an idiot while everyone stares at me. Not sure how to handle this. Phil Kessel, call me.


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#1993 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 10:36 AM

Do we know for sure if the proposed contract restrictions only apply to new contracts and not existing ones?

Because some time ago in the negotiations there was talk of them applying to current contracts, which is nuts.

#1994 toby91_ca

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:00 AM

Bettman and Fehr are re-joining negotiations today.....worries me big time.

#1995 rrasco

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:08 AM

never had that problem. have you tried using different browsers on your computer?


Yep. IE shows the cert error too. Bypass it and get a bad http request. It's weird.

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#1996 Euro_Twins

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:11 AM

Yep. IE shows the cert error too. Bypass it and get a bad http request. It's weird.


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#1997 F.Michael

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:18 AM

Do we know for sure if the proposed contract restrictions only apply to new contracts and not existing ones?

Because some time ago in the negotiations there was talk of them applying to current contracts, which is nuts.

From what I can understand - the BOG wants a 5 year max on contracts with no more than 5% salary variation from year to year (so no more Franzen type contracts)...I'm thinking this pertains primarily to UFA's.

However the BOG is willing to accept up to 7 year contracts for re-signing free agents (I'm guessing restricted free agents).

Clear as mud?

Bettman and Fehr are re-joining negotiations today.....worries me big time.

Agreed.

Those 2 clowns are likely to get into a pissing match, and it would most certainly hinder any chance of having a season.

I wish the owners/players themselves could hammer out a deal without Bettman/Fehr in the room.

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#1998 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:30 AM

i can't for the life of me figure out why the players want such a short term cba. for one, you know the owners are going to ask for more concessions next time around so why would you want to subject yourself to it after only 5 years, not to mention that the possibility of more lost wages in another lockout. and james mirtle makes a good point::


I don't get it either. On some level I can understand that if they end up getting screwed they can get out earlier, but the more likely scenario (as you mention) is that in 5 years the owners will just lock them out again and try and get even more.

There's an 8 year opt out for both sides. I'm not sure how likely either would be to use it though, as I'm guessing if you opt out that immediately makes your side look like the bad guy headed into a new CBA negotiation. Things would have to be pretty awful for the players for them to use it. I don't know if the opt out has been used in other sports though. Maybe it's not that big of a deal.

i also hope that these negotiations don't fall apart on contracting issues that only affect a small minority of players. how many players have signed a contract longer than 5 years in their careers?

Plus there's the 7 year for a re-signing free agents, or something like that. From tweets i've been reading it sounds like it's the combo of 5 year contracts and 5%.

jacobs is a complete moron. this guy is way worse than bettman

but it's nice to see these other owners stepping up and making jacobs back down. this should have happened months ago.

Agreed.

Though I'd put them at equal morons because Bettman has made Jacobs his right hand man as much or more than Daly. He's given a ton of power to the most hard line owner that even Bruins fans hate.

It sounds like all info and optimism should be taken with a grain of salt.

McKenzie:

All I can tell you is there's a really bizarre dynamic right now and so many mixed signals coming from both sides.


Dreger:

4 on 4 mtng last night was brief. PA did not like that dynamic, hence the players insistance on an open room today.



#1999 Nightfall

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:43 AM

Bettman and Fehr are re-joining negotiations today.....worries me big time.

The two biggest dicks rejoin the negotiations after much progress was made without them. Color me shocked.

Sometimes I wonder why some people are behind the owners or players in this debacle. We remove the cancer that is Bettman and Fehr, and progress is made. Those two come back in the room, and that should worry everyone.
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#2000 Carman

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:49 AM

I really should have kept away from reading all the stories about the lock out, I was doing good for a while trying to close my eyes and ears, but now every tweet, update and post is getting me closer and closer to falling out of my seat and I can't stop reading.





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