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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread


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#2021 chances14

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:38 PM

I guess I took it more as a sign of the NHLPA feeling like the league is still not negotiating properly, but I definitely like your interpretation better.


either that or it's a stall tactic by fehr. neither one would surprise me

#2022 Salviaman

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:42 PM

Is the season lost nomatter what?
Think for yourself. Question authority. Throughout human history as our species has faced the frightening, terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are or where we are going in this ocean of chance, it has been the authorities, the political, the religious, the educational authorities who attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, regulations, informing, forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, open mindedness, chaotic, confused vulnerability to inform yourself.

#2023 Euro_Twins

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:43 PM

I just hope this does not fall apart because of contract length and 90 million dollars... they are so close to a deal it's ridiculous. The owners even caved on RFA and entry level restrictions, and extended maximum contract lengths to 7 years if you are re-signing on a team...

EDIT: I find it funny how the moment Fehr and Bettman rejoin the talks everythings seemingly is falling apart... must just be a coincidence though...

Edited by Euro_Twins, 06 December 2012 - 03:45 PM.


#2024 chances14

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:59 PM

adater@adater
Despite all the griping today, vast majority of those in the know believe a season will happen

#2025 rrasco

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:00 PM

They say the gloves really come off in the end, so let's hope that is what is going on. Off to Twitterverse I go...

Bob McKenzie@TSNBobMcKenzie
Apropos of nothing, Happy Pearl Harbor Day Eve. NHL contingent just arrived at hotel. @Real_ESPNLeBrun reports meeting no earlier than 5 ET.


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#2026 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:17 PM

either that or it's a stall tactic by fehr. neither one would surprise me

Strategically why would Fehr want to stall at this point in the negotiations? What advantage would that give the NHLPA?

#2027 chances14

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:23 PM

Strategically why would Fehr want to stall at this point in the negotiations? What advantage would that give the NHLPA?


i think he believes that the pa will be able to get a better offer from the nhl the longer this goes on

#2028 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:30 PM

i think he believes that the pa will be able to get a better offer from the nhl the longer this goes on

Based on what?

The prevailing opinion certainly isn't that the deal will get better for the players as the lockout drags on. It certainly didn't in 2005 when they lost a season and accepted a salary cap and had their wages tied to revenue.

The players have finite careers so they have to weigh the deal against the lost wages from the lockout. Conventional wisdom is the longer it drags on the more leverage it gives the owners. The NHL franchise is only one of their businesses, where for players it's the only way they can generate income.

#2029 rrasco

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:36 PM

Tim Panaccio@tpanotchCSN
Bill Daly told me the NHL has not agreed to a mediator yet and has "no idea" why a mediator is needed "at this point in time."


It's worth noting, that while the owners came up to $300M for make whole, $50M of that is in pension, which comes from the players share. So the league really only came up to $250M.

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#2030 chances14

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:42 PM

Based on what?


based on the fact that they still haven't accepted a new cba yet and it is appearing like they aren't going to accept the latest proposal by the owners either.

The prevailing opinion certainly isn't that the deal will get better for the players as the lockout drags on. It certainly didn't in 2005 when they lost a season and accepted a salary cap and had their wages tied to revenue.

The players have finite careers so they have to weigh the deal against the lost wages from the lockout. Conventional wisdom is the longer it drags on the more leverage it gives the owners. The NHL franchise is only one of their businesses, where for players it's the only way they can generate income.


i agree, which is why i think it's ridiculous that the players are now willing to risk losing a season over contracting issues that only affect a minority of players and 90 million dollar difference in make whole.

#2031 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:52 PM

based on the fact that they still haven't accepted a new cba yet and it is appearing like they aren't going to accept the latest proposal by the owners either.

i agree, which is why i think it's ridiculous that the players are now willing to risk losing a season over contracting issues that only affect a minority of players and 90 million dollar difference in make whole.

Your position seems to be that they NHLPA should accept whatever the league is offering right now. That's fine, but that has nothing to do with what Fehr actually thinks or what his strategy is.

#2032 Nightfall

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:57 PM

Your position seems to be that they NHLPA should accept whatever the league is offering right now. That's fine, but that has nothing to do with what Fehr actually thinks or what his strategy is.

I personally think its unreasonable that a skilled negotiator like Fehr feels that he should be getting a better deal, so he throws the "mediators" trump card out there in order to delay the negotiations. A skilled and good negotiatior would get in there and negotiate, not stall. If the NHL denies his request, then he can come out to the press and pontificate like he has done through this entire process. There is no excuse for either side in this debacle of a negotiation.
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#2033 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:08 PM

does anyone know if the topic of realignment is on the CBA's agenda? I was a bit excited with the new alignment and playoff format changing (not that it was perfect)

I haven't heard anything about the proposed realignment and I'd be willing to be it's not even being discussed right now given the fact that they have much bigger fish to fry.

Sidenote: I love the idea of realignment. I hated their proposal simply due to the fact that it gave the "Old Eastern" conference teams a better shot at making the playoffs given they had two less teams than the "Old Western" (no pun intended) conference. The best they can do right now is realign and keep the 6 divisions because you can't make it square with 4 unless you add or drop 2 teams (dropping two teams....also not a bad idea).
It's amazing how much clarity comes when you care more about the Red Wings than any individual player.


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#2034 chances14

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:10 PM

That's fine, but that has nothing to do with what Fehr actually thinks or what his strategy is.


fehr wanting to bring in mediators is a perfect example of his stalling tactic. talks were progressing without the mediators, why bring them in now, especially since mediation was a complete failure last time.

bob mackenzie went on tsn radio earlier today and said that he was getting comments from the rank and file players telling him that they liked the deal on the table. just like the moderate owners did to bettman and jacobs, hopefully these players step up and force fehr's hand in this.

#2035 chances14

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:34 PM

Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika
Owners are furious with Fehr, yes. I think they also sense a number of players want to vote on what is on table.

Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika
My comment on a number of players wanting vote is not based on NHL sources, but players. Can't say I know ratio, though.

John Shannon@JSportsnet
The Negotiations are on again. Curious to note, NO Bettman on the NHL side.

Edited by chances14, 06 December 2012 - 05:35 PM.


#2036 F.Michael

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:43 PM

If Fehr thinks he can pull stunts like he had while he was the head of the MLB players union then he needs to get kicked to the curb, and let the players go on their own.

His ignorance of the BOG is what's gonna kill this season.

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#2037 chances14

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:44 PM

Unreal. It’s the word of the day for me. As I write, it appears as if the NHL CBA talks are blowing up again. Owners are “furious” at Donald Fehr, one top industry source told me. The biggest reason? They think he’s stalling again by wanting to bring in mediators again to the talks. That, and a list of other grievances, including essentially “injecting” himself and what owners consider his giant ego into the middle of things just when the sides looked like they were getting along and closing in on a deal.


http://blogs.denverp...-toronto/11978/

#2038 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:48 PM

fehr wanting to bring in mediators is a perfect example of his stalling tactic. talks were progressing without the mediators, why bring them in now, especially since mediation was a complete failure last time.

bob mackenzie went on tsn radio earlier today and said that he was getting comments from the rank and file players telling him that they liked the deal on the table. just like the moderate owners did to bettman and jacobs, hopefully these players step up and force fehr's hand in this.

According to McKenzie and several other people, after the first night of goodwill, things got heated and precarious. I honestly don't know why they'd bring in mediators since it didn't work last time, but I don't see why it's a stall tactic or why that would make any lick of sense as a strategy for the NHLPA. It could just as easily be a move to bring in a neutral third party to try and facilitate productive discussion when things get heated (futile as it may be).

They're so friggin close to a deal I hope this is the darkest before the dawn moment. If the majority of players really do want to take what's on the table then absolutely Fehr should listen. But it's probably more difficult to get a real sense with 700 players (I think that's the number I heard the NHLPA represents) than 30 owners.

#2039 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:53 PM

I personally think its unreasonable that a skilled negotiator like Fehr feels that he should be getting a better deal, so he throws the "mediators" trump card out there in order to delay the negotiations. A skilled and good negotiatior would get in there and negotiate, not stall. If the NHL denies his request, then he can come out to the press and pontificate like he has done through this entire process. There is no excuse for either side in this debacle of a negotiation.

I guess it's been a few pages since we've talked about not replying to each others posts so do I really have to say it yet again?

Especially since your reply contains several assumptions, there's no point in discussing your unsubstantiated version of events.

#2040 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:09 PM

@aaronward_nhl: Bill Daly leaving CBA meetings #TSN

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