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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread


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#2081 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:03 PM

kinda funny how right when bettman and fehr get back into the fold, things all go to sh*t....

No kidding. My favorite parts of Bettman's speech:

Bettman: Owners said union "clearly doesn't want to make a deal." Players wanted to get back on track.


Bettman: Owners outlined what key elements they needed in exchange for pension plan, so they were expecting yes or no.


Bettman: It wasn't intended to be a negotiating session. Answer wasn't "yes."


So he claims the NHLPA doesn't want to make a deal, but the owners basically said "take it or leave it" regarding the pension plan. Makes sense.

I'm glad Bettman looks rattled. Hopefully because he's worried about losing his job.

Lebrun:

Bettman confirms the elements the league added to the table this week are now OFF the table


Bettman says the Make Whole provision in its entirety as a concept is OFF the table.


There's so much b.s. and spin going on I can't even tell what they actually are still disagreeing on.

#2082 amato

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:07 PM

No kidding. My favorite parts of Bettman's speech:



So he claims the NHLPA doesn't want to make a deal, but the owners basically said "take it or leave it" regarding the pension plan. Makes sense.

I'm glad Bettman looks rattled. Hopefully because he's worried about losing his job.

Lebrun:



There's so much b.s. and spin going on I can't even tell what they actually are still disagreeing on.


"my way or no way" - Bettman.... it's like his negotiating tactics have been the same since he was 5

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#2083 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:08 PM

Bettman and D. Fehr's careers should be OFF the table. I will never understand the take my toys and go home mentality. So, because the progress they made didn't lead to a deal, they should scorch the earth and set negotiations and any leftover good will back to square one? There is a clear absence of common sense in that room...

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#2084 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:10 PM

"my way or no way" - Bettman.... it's like his negotiating tactics have been the same since he was 5

That's the thing, it's just so friggin hard to tell. From what I read on TSN it sounds like the league made a pretty good offer, one that should be able to get worked into a final deal.

Then it sounds like the union comes back closer to their demands but not accepting them outright, so the league bolts again.

Could it possibly be true they rejected the offer via voicemail??

But it's all so much conjecture I can't really even tell how far apart they are. I know the league wants 10 year CBA, didn't the union propose 8 years? Have both sides not heard of the number 9?

And while I think not honoring existing contracts is a screw job, it seems like something the owners are willing to sacrifice at least one season for. And the league apparently did increase make whole money. but it gets convoluted so friggin fast.

Though it is pretty funny Bettman saying the NHLPA offer was insulting to the owners, given what the owners first offer in this whole mess was.

#2085 chances14

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:14 PM

That's the thing, it's just so friggin hard to tell. From what I read on TSN it sounds like the league made a pretty good offer, one that should be able to get worked into a final deal.

Then it sounds like the union comes back closer to their demands but not accepting them outright, the league bolts again.

But it's all so much conjecture I can't really even tell how far apart they are. I know the league wants 10 year CBA, didn't the union propose 8 years? Have both sides not heard of the number 9?

And while I think not honoring existing contracts is a screw job, it seems like something the owners are willing to sacrifice at least one season for. And the league apparently did increase make whole money. but it gets convoluted so friggin fast.

Though it is pretty funny Bettman saying the NHLPA offer was insulting to the owners, given what the owners first offer in this whole mess was.


agreed. i don't know what they are disagreeing on at this point.

bettman isn't doing himself any favors right now. letting emotions get the best of him.

#2086 amato

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:15 PM

That's the thing, it's just so friggin hard to tell. From what I read on TSN it sounds like the league made a pretty good offer, one that should be able to get worked into a final deal.

Then it sounds like the union comes back closer to their demands but not accepting them outright, so the league bolts again.

But it's all so much conjecture I can't really even tell how far apart they are. I know the league wants 10 year CBA, didn't the union propose 8 years? Have both sides not heard of the number 9?

And while I think not honoring existing contracts is a screw job, it seems like something the owners are willing to sacrifice at least one season for. And the league apparently did increase make whole money. but it gets convoluted so friggin fast.

Though it is pretty funny Bettman saying the NHLPA offer was insulting to the owners, given what the owners first offer in this whole mess was.


Bolded is exactly what I was thinking when i first read he thought the offer was insulting....

but no matter how "bad" the deal was or whatever, i don't see why the NHL wouldn't at least sit back down and talk about it rather than saying "nope! bye!" ....which is the impression I'm getting.

i'm sure the PA offer was something to work off of/their best one yet, otherwise why would they offer it? idk, maybe i'm wrong.. just seems dumb to stop negotiating right now.. or at all for that matter.

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#2087 rrasco

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:17 PM

The owners were insulted that they added almost $100M to the make whole provision (from $211M to $300M, which $50M was to come from player revenues) and the PA didn't accept their offer as-is. I can't believe he said it wasn't a negotiation, if that was an accurate quote. How do they expect this to work?

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#2088 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:18 PM

Bolded is exactly what I was thinking when i first read he thought the offer was insulting....


Thirded. The only thing "insulting" about the PA's offer is that they dared NEGOTIATE off the NHL's last offer. Isn't that what they're supposed to be doing?!

Edit: spanked by rrasco!

Edited by BottleOfSmoke, 06 December 2012 - 08:19 PM.

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#2089 rrasco

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:19 PM

Make whole provision is off table entirely.

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#2090 stevieisthebest

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:26 PM

Make whole provision is off table entirely.


Why don't they just call the season right now then?
How the hell could they do this, grow up. I'm so devastated by tonight.
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#2091 chances14

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:28 PM

Make whole provision is off table entirely.


i dont buy that for a second. that is pure posturing.

#2092 rrasco

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:34 PM

I am having Twitter problems again, but was following on my phone. Bettman just laid it all on the line. I'm blown away by what just happened. Steve Fehr and a contingent of players were in the room listening. It sounded tense. And Bettman literally just threw a fit.

Can't imagine any less than 48 games. Said there is no magic date. His was Oct 11, the start of the season. Then he said he was being told it's Jan 1. So now we have a date. Make whole is off the table. Everything this week is off the table.

Lebrun says expect statements from all 4 owners that were present this week.

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#2093 amato

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:36 PM


more Comm-ic relief.. heh


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#2094 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:36 PM

Thirded. The only thing "insulting" about the PA's offer is that they dared NEGOTIATE off the NHL's last offer. Isn't that what they're supposed to be doing?!

Edit: spanked by rrasco!

Bettman's response to essentially that very question:

Bettman: "It's easy to say keep negotiating. At some point, you have to be in a position to say, 'This is what we need.' "


So he keeps claiming the NHLPA isn't interested in negotiating, but then follows it by what sounds like take it or leave it demands by the league.

#2095 chances14

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:37 PM

oh boy

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There's no pressure yet on the owners to lose this year, that's why they still treat us like Cattle. They'll need a partner come January.


if this is the attitude of the players and fehr, they are going to be in for a rude awakening. these nhl owners are a different breed than other pro sports owners

#2096 amato

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:40 PM

oh boy



if this is the attitude of the players and fehr, they are going to be in for a rude awakening. these nhl owners are a different breed than other pro sports owners


if that is the players and ferh's attitudes, and they don't change.. kiss the season goodbye.

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#2097 chances14

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:51 PM

owners statementon cba talks

We were therefore surprised when the Fehrs made a unilateral and "non-negotiable" decision - which is their right, to end the player/owner process that has moved us farther in two days than we have moved at any time in the past months.


i believe this is what pissed the owners and bettman off the most

Edited by chances14, 06 December 2012 - 08:52 PM.


#2098 F.Michael

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:53 PM

if that is the players and ferh's attitudes, and they don't change.. kiss the season goodbye.

As I said earlier...If Fehr really thinks he can push the NHL owners around like he had with MLB - well goodbye NHL season 2012/2013.

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#2099 Nightfall

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:56 PM

Though it is pretty funny Bettman saying the NHLPA offer was insulting to the owners, given what the owners first offer in this whole mess was.

Fehr is pontificating to the media as well. Both sides in this are just sickening.

As I said earlier...If Fehr really thinks he can push the NHL owners around like he had with MLB - well goodbye NHL season 2012/2013.

At this point, I believe Fehr has a ulterior motive. He will move to impose a luxury tax after the season is cancelled.
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#2100 vladdy16

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:57 PM

Synopsis of events per Russo here, as well as a couple of owner statements.
Can't wait to read the "Phoenix: I still think it's a hockey market" chapter of Gary Bettman's autobiography. I'm guessing it's going to be chapter 11.

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