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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread


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#2221 Dabura

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:03 AM

Anyone find it the least bit odd that the league keeps shooting down the NHLPA's proposals with lightning speed?

http://www.mlive.com...ry_fears_s.html

Methinks this lockout is not about what we think it's about, but rather, Something Else....

Don't Toews me, bro!


#2222 Euro_Twins

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:05 AM

I guess, but don't you enjoy going to the games?... and in the end isn't that the whole point of hockey, to give us enjoyment?


While this is true, the only real way to avoid this in the future is to send them a message now showing them we won't tolerate another lockout

#2223 drwscc

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:31 AM

Anyone find it the least bit odd that the league keeps shooting down the NHLPA's proposals with lightning speed?

http://www.mlive.com...ry_fears_s.html

Methinks this lockout is not about what we think it's about, but rather, Something Else....


Yeah, interesting how the owners can identify that something specific is not included in the offer, and reject it based on that. That'd be like going to buy a Ferrari at the Ferrari dealership, and the salesman said "Here is a great Volkswagen." You mean you'd need a day or two to discuss the Volkswagen with everyone you know before saying "Uh. I asked for a Ferrari. No Volkswagen."
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#2224 Dabura

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 11:49 AM

Yeah, interesting how the owners can identify that something specific is not included in the offer, and reject it based on that. That'd be like going to buy a Ferrari at the Ferrari dealership, and the salesman said "Here is a great Volkswagen." You mean you'd need a day or two to discuss the Volkswagen with everyone you know before saying "Uh. I asked for a Ferrari. No Volkswagen."


The likely explanation is that, yeah, the NHLPA is simply coming up short. And if this "The league refused the offer without blinking and the players are confused and angry" business were a one-time thing, I'd be fully on-board.

Maybe it's just boredom, but my gut says there's more to this.

Don't Toews me, bro!


#2225 Euro_Twins

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:13 PM

The likely explanation is that, yeah, the NHLPA is simply coming up short. And if this "The league refused the offer without blinking and the players are confused and angry" business were a one-time thing, I'd be fully on-board.

Maybe it's just boredom, but my gut says there's more to this.


No because the players are the ones going from 57% salary to 50%, they are the ones who are losing money on contracts the owners signed, they are the ones giving up certain contracting rights in order to protect owners from themselves. Yet after all this Bettman continually states the players are not making any concessions... seems fishy to me as well

#2226 Johnz96

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:25 PM

No because the players are the ones going from 57% salary to 50%, they are the ones who are losing money on contracts the owners signed, they are the ones giving up certain contracting rights in order to protect owners from themselves. Yet after all this Bettman continually states the players are not making any concessions... seems fishy to me as well

http://www.fiveminutesforfighting.com/2012/12/CBA-negotiations-Bettman-Fehr-NHL-NHLPA-concessions.html

#2227 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:37 PM

http://www.fiveminut...oncessions.html


I think this is the correct way to see who is conceeding what. Compare terms of the proposals to the previous CBA not to other proposals. Previous CBA is the (only) valid starting point.

#2228 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:54 PM

Another "games cancellation" announcement is right around the corner.

"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

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#2229 amato

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 01:01 PM

Another "games cancellation" announcement is right around the corner.


was just about to say this... according to dreger, games are about to be canceled through the 30th of December.


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Further NHL regular season cancellations today. Thru Dec 30th.




Ugh, likely the last step before canceling the entire season.

Edited by amato, 10 December 2012 - 01:15 PM.

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#2230 Nightfall

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 01:16 PM

I guess, but don't you enjoy going to the games?... and in the end isn't that the whole point of hockey, to give us enjoyment?

Yup, I enjoy it, but I have a limited amount of disposable income. Right now, my opinion of the NHL and the players is at an all time low. If I don't have a high opinion of something, why would I spend money on it? I am getting more enjoyment out of spending money on watching live college and AHL hockey right now. Now, if my opinion changes and I get the desire to go see games again, thats a different story. Right now, I just can't fathom going to any NHL games in person for a long time. Three years sounds like a reasonable start.
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#2231 RedWingsDad

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 01:53 PM

Yup, I enjoy it, but I have a limited amount of disposable income. Right now, my opinion of the NHL and the players is at an all time low. If I don't have a high opinion of something, why would I spend money on it? I am getting more enjoyment out of spending money on watching live college and AHL hockey right now. Now, if my opinion changes and I get the desire to go see games again, thats a different story. Right now, I just can't fathom going to any NHL games in person for a long time. Three years sounds like a reasonable start.


What if there is a hockey season this year... and the Wings make it to the finals against Crosby and the Penguins and go to a game 7... and you have the opportunity to see Bettman forced to give out the cup to the wings again... WOULD YOU GO?!! :D

Edit: in my fantasy scenario, the tickets are also affordable!

Edited by RedWingsDad, 10 December 2012 - 01:57 PM.

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#2232 vladdy16

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:03 PM

What if there is a hockey season this year... and the Wings make it to the finals against Crosby and the Penguins and go to a game 7... and you have the opportunity to see Bettman forced to give out the cup to the wings again... WOULD YOU GO?!! :D

Edit: in my fantasy scenario, the tickets are also affordable!

In my fantasy, the tickets are free, Mike Babcock picks me up in a limo, I sit on the bench for the game, retired players or those on IR serve me free cocktails and munchies and then I go party with the team afterwards. THEN I'd go.
Can't wait to read the "Phoenix: I still think it's a hockey market" chapter of Gary Bettman's autobiography. I'm guessing it's going to be chapter 11.

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#2233 Jedi

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:03 PM

While not exactly the end-all-be-all of hockey authorities, USA Today has a good story up sprinkling a bit of optimism that there will indeed be a season.

The long and short of it all is that players & owners (as we all already know) really aren't that far apart on a deal, and that losing a full season would do more harm to both sides than each side conceding a little bit.


In my fantasy, the tickets are free, Mike Babcock picks me up in a limo, I sit on the bench for the game, retired players or those on IR serve me free cocktails and munchies and then I go party with the team afterwards. THEN I'd go.


The Babcock/Limo thing is a non starter, and therefore this negotiation is terminated. Had you not reached for the moon, and settled for, say, a cab ride with Paul Boyer, then you might have a deal.

*edit* I just realized that I should have sent this to you using the accepted method, as demonstrated by the NHL. So when your phone rings in a minute, don't answer it, and I'll leave you the response by voicemail...

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#2234 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:42 PM

In my fantasy, the tickets are free, Mike Babcock picks me up in a limo, I sit on the bench for the game, retired players or those on IR serve me free cocktails and munchies and then I go party with the team afterwards. THEN I'd go.

Holy crap, can I be your plus one?

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#2235 RedWingsDad

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

In my fantasy, the tickets are free, Mike Babcock picks me up in a limo, I sit on the bench for the game, retired players or those on IR serve me free cocktails and munchies and then I go party with the team afterwards. THEN I'd go.


You have exceedingly high standards... I’d go just for dollar hot dog night.

Edited by RedWingsDad, 10 December 2012 - 02:47 PM.

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#2236 Euro_Twins

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:00 PM

I think this is the correct way to see who is conceeding what. Compare terms of the proposals to the previous CBA not to other proposals. Previous CBA is the (only) valid starting point.


I like this comparison, though I was not trying to compare who conceded more and who did not (obviously the players are losing a lot more than the owners in this CBA) I was merely stating the fact that Bettman keeps saying Fehr is unwilling to concede anything, Fehr does not want to bargain in good faith, blah blah blah, pr bs, and so on...

I like that link though it outlines who conceded what, and the only thing conceded by the owners really is CBA term length (assuming they move off the 10 year CBA, which I would actually like to see kept)

#2237 vladdy16

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:03 PM

While not exactly the end-all-be-all of hockey authorities, USA Today has a good story up sprinkling a bit of optimism that there will indeed be a season.

The long and short of it all is that players & owners (as we all already know) really aren't that far apart on a deal, and that losing a full season would do more harm to both sides than each side conceding a little bit.




The Babcock/Limo thing is a non starter, and therefore this negotiation is terminated. Had you not reached for the moon, and settled for, say, a cab ride with Paul Boyer, then you might have a deal.

*edit* I just realized that I should have sent this to you using the accepted method, as demonstrated by the NHL. So when your phone rings in a minute, don't answer it, and I'll leave you the response by voicemail...

But the podium is awaiting my press conference and already announced on my Twitter and Facebook we were close to deal!

Holy crap, can I be your plus one?

My plus one will be however many fit in the limo; you are on the list.
Can't wait to read the "Phoenix: I still think it's a hockey market" chapter of Gary Bettman's autobiography. I'm guessing it's going to be chapter 11.

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#2238 Johnz96

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:03 PM

Yup, I enjoy it, but I have a limited amount of disposable income. Right now, my opinion of the NHL and the players is at an all time low. If I don't have a high opinion of something, why would I spend money on it? I am getting more enjoyment out of spending money on watching live college and AHL hockey right now. Now, if my opinion changes and I get the desire to go see games again, thats a different story. Right now, I just can't fathom going to any NHL games in person for a long time. Three years sounds like a reasonable start.

The players are being generous helping the owners pay for contracts they offered but couldn't afford to. The owners that are doing well can more than afford to contribute. After all they are the ones who hired Bettman and went along with his schemes to grow the league.
But it's great that you won't be attending any games and don't buy any NHL merchandise.
Bettman and the NHL want the fans to blame the players for all this and for the customers to hate the product and I hope it works. I hope there will be major revenue decline and I think that will lead to finally getting that pariah out of our sport.
You're right there must be something in the genetics that makes somebody a great hockey player that also makes him stupider and greedier than other athletes forcing Bettman to lock them (and us) out every time the CBA expires. Why should we idolize and watch those stupid, greedy @#$% or let our children watch them?
That is why hockey has lost more games due to labour disputes than all other major sports leagues combined.

Edited by Johnz96, 10 December 2012 - 03:57 PM.


#2239 vladdy16

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:03 PM

You have exceedingly high standards... I’d go just for dollar hot dog night.

Murph has cornered that market.
Can't wait to read the "Phoenix: I still think it's a hockey market" chapter of Gary Bettman's autobiography. I'm guessing it's going to be chapter 11.

- mjlegend 3/9/2011

#2240 Nightfall

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 03:32 PM

What if there is a hockey season this year... and the Wings make it to the finals against Crosby and the Penguins and go to a game 7... and you have the opportunity to see Bettman forced to give out the cup to the wings again... WOULD YOU GO?!! :D

Edit: in my fantasy scenario, the tickets are also affordable!

If a corporation would be offering me free tickets in a suite where they are paying for everything, then I would.

If I was shelling out the cash, then no. Sorry, the NHL lockout really has left a bad taste in my mouth. Before this whole lockout mess, I would have said yes. Now? I would just watch it on TV and spend the money on something else.

The players and the league can go choke on it. They will get my cable TV sub money, but I won't be going to any of their advertisers either.

Edited by Nightfall, 10 December 2012 - 03:45 PM.

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