2458 replies to this topic

[RedWingsDad]

Hockey fans, take a stand, or else Bettman will continue to treat you like crap.

Hockey fans, take a stand, or else both sides will continue to treat you like crap.

fixed it for you

The players treat us like crap?

Yes, I think you grasped what he was trying to say. In the context that the original quote was saying the owners treat us like crap for not giving in to the NHLPA, I believe he was asserting that if one were to actually hold that kind of position, then logically the same must also be leveled against the players (read: NHLPA)... who likewise are not giving into the owners, and therefore are also causing the fans to miss out on NHL hockey. Is that the confirmation you were looking for with your question? Let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Edited by RedWingsDad, 16 December 2012 - 09:13 AM.

[Johnz96]

Yes, I think you grasped what he was trying to say. In the context that the original quote was saying the owners treat us like crap for not giving in to the NHLPA, I believe he was asserting that if one were to actually hold that kind of position, then logically the same must also be leveled against the players (read: NHLPA)... who likewise are not giving into the owners, and therefore are also causing the fans to miss out on NHL hockey. Is that the confirmation you were looking for with your question? Let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Not giving in to the players???
The players are the only ones giving anything and Bettman has the nerve to say they won't make any concessions.
The players are being generous helping the owners pay for contracts they signed but couldn't afford. The owners that are doing well can more than afford to contribute more. After all they are the ones who hired Bettman and went along with his schemes to grow the league.
http://www.fiveminut...oncessions.html

[rrasco]

fixed it for you

This is getting old.

[Jedi]

fixed it for you

This is getting old.

Agreed. Can we maybe find a new way to disagree than simply change words, say "fixed for you" and sit back as Captain Snarky?

[Nightfall]

Agreed. Can we maybe find a new way to disagree than simply change words, say "fixed for you" and sit back as Captain Snarky?

Yes there is. Its called "agree to disagree". Some people here believe that the players are not at fault when it comes to the lockout. Others believe differently. Its readily apparent after 100+ pages that neither side is going to give.

[chances14]

This is getting old.

I've had it done to me on a few occasions in this thread. Just returning the favor. Sorry if that offends you

[Buppy]

...Secondly, I don't blame the PA for this debacle "100%". ...Lets just stop misrepresenting what people are saying at this stage. It does nothing positive to the conversation....

Sorry for any misunderstanding. I wasn't saying you blame the players 100% for the lockout. I was saying you blame them 100% for the delays in negotiations. While it's true the league said they were ready to start negotiating, the fact is they never actually did anything to try to get started. They were just fine with waiting.

Personally, I think 11 weeks should have been plenty of time to get a deal done. If I had a problem with the time table, it would be that they're taking too long rather than that they started too late.

Edited by Buppy, 17 December 2012 - 09:51 AM.

[Hockeytown0001]

This is still going?

[Nightfall]

Sorry for any misunderstanding. I wasn't saying you blame the players 100% for the lockout. I was saying you blame them 100% for the delays in negotiations. While it's true the league said they were ready to start negotiating, the fact is they never actually did anything to try to get started. They were just fine with waiting.Personally, I think 11 weeks should have been plenty of time to get a deal done. If I had a problem with the time table, it would be that they're taking too long rather than that they started too late.

Sorry for the misunderstanding on the 100% thing.

What the PA did is documented and verified. I do blame them for delaying the negotiations when the league said they were ready to negotiate in January. You cannot blame the league for requesting talks, while the PA says they need time or they weren't ready. What do you expect the league to do? Demand that the PA show up and start negotiating? In order for there to be a negotiation, you have to have two willing parties. The fact that the PA chose not to be willing is not on the league.

As for them talking too long, I will agree that is a problem as well.

Edited by Nightfall, 17 December 2012 - 09:03 AM.

[haroldsnepsts]

Guess what has two thumbs and deleted more posts in this thread?

This guy.

(I guess the joke only works if you see me pointing at myself).


For the thousandth time, discuss the lockout and the content of people's post, not the person making the post. For example, if you find yourself typing "you" a lot in your post, you might want to take a timeout, re-read it, and make sure you're discussing the topic at hand and not the person. Otherwise it's going to get deleted.

It's also getting to the point where snarky, smartass posts will be deleted as they're basically flame baiting, which is against forum rules.

As well, politics and political discussion will similarly be deleted.

We've made countless warnings in this thread. I understand that we're all mad and frustrated about the situation, but do I really need to start suspending more people for such a pointless thing as arguing about the lockout?

[Echolalia]

Guess what has two thumbs and deleted more posts in this thread?

This guy.

(I guess the joke only works if you see me pointing at myself).


For the thousandth time, discuss the lockout and the content of people's post, not the person making the post. For example, if you find yourself typing "you" a lot in your post, you might want to take a timeout, re-read it, and make sure you're discussing the topic at hand and not the person. Otherwise it's going to get deleted.

It's also getting to the point where snarky, smartass posts will be deleted as they're basically flame baiting, which is against forum rules.

We've made countless warnings in this thread. I understand that we're all mad and frustrated about the situation, but do I really need to start suspending more people for such a pointless thing as arguing about the lockout?

I guess you can say these posters need to be
LOCKED OUT


yeaaaaaahhhhhhh

[Johnz96]

Sorry for the misunderstanding on the 100% thing.

What the PA did is documented and verified. I do blame them for delaying the negotiations when the league said they were ready to negotiate in January. You cannot blame the league for requesting talks, while the PA says they need time or they weren't ready. What do you expect the league to do? Demand that the PA show up and start negotiating? In order for there to be a negotiation, you have to have two willing parties. The fact that the PA chose not to be willing is not on the league.

As for them talking too long, I will agree that is a problem as well.

If the league was ready to negotiate in January, why haven't they started yet.

[Rivalred]

I still don't understand how big long term contracts can be handed out, they are approved, and now they do not want to be honored?

Yes I can understand they things are started to get out of hand, but the owners did it to themselves...

I think it would be best for both sides for honor all previous agreements, aka have them grandfathered in, but make it clear that this will not happen in the future...

With the formation of the KHL and other leagues in Europe, it does put some pressure on the NHL and owners to some degree.

[Johnz96]

Guess what has two thumbs and deleted more posts in this thread?

This guy.

(I guess the joke only works if you see me pointing at myself).


For the thousandth time, discuss the lockout and the content of people's post, not the person making the post. For example, if you find yourself typing "you" a lot in your post, you might want to take a timeout, re-read it, and make sure you're discussing the topic at hand and not the person. Otherwise it's going to get deleted.

It's also getting to the point where snarky, smartass posts will be deleted as they're basically flame baiting, which is against forum rules.

We've made countless warnings in this thread. I understand that we're all mad and frustrated about the situation, but do I really need to start suspending more people for such a pointless thing as arguing about the lockout?

This thread reminds me of the lockout negotiations (I use the term loosely as it requires 2 parties to have a negotiation)

[cusimano_brothers]

What the PA did is documented and verified. I do blame them for delaying the negotiations when the league said they were ready to negotiate in January.

What Uncle Gary said is equally well documented, just more overlooked and forgotten by most who choose to take that path. From Sportsnet:

"My guess is, at least informally, we'll have some discussions in the not-too-distant future," Bettman said Saturday after the NHL's board of governors meeting. "I'm not prepared to say when the formal negotiations will begin. That's a call we've pretty left to the Players' Association. We're ready, and have been ready. But the union has had some work to do.
"Don Fehr obviously being somewhat new to the job is going through a bit of a learning curve and wants to make sure he understands what his constituents want. And so, we're patient. I'm not concerned about the time frame."

If he didn't mean it, Uncle Gary shouldn't have said it. Then again, he knew he was going to "turn the key" on 15/09/2012.

[rrasco]

If he didn't mean it, Uncle Gary shouldn't have said it. Then again, he knew he was going to "turn the key" on 15/09/2012.

There are not 15 months in the year. Not my years anyways. /s

[Dabura]

Yes, I think you grasped what he was trying to say. In the context that the original quote was saying the owners treat us like crap for not giving in to the NHLPA, I believe he was asserting that if one were to actually hold that kind of position, then logically the same must also be leveled against the players (read: NHLPA)... who likewise are not giving into the owners, and therefore are also causing the fans to miss out on NHL hockey. Is that the confirmation you were looking for with your question? Let me know if I can be of further assistance.

I don't understand all the player-hating. It's painfully obvious what's wrong with the NHL, and it's not the NHLPA.

[chances14]

What Uncle Gary said is equally well documented, just more overlooked and forgotten by most who choose to take that path. From Sportsnet:



If he didn't mean it, Uncle Gary shouldn't have said it. Then again, he knew he was going to "turn the key" on 15/09/2012.

also from the article

Fehr, the NHLPA's executive director, hinted Saturday that he might be in favour of putting off serious negotiations until the summer.

so while both sides didn't feel the urgency, fact is the nhl was ready to negotiate and the pa wasn't

i also found the last part interesting

Fehr wasn't around for the last set of negotiations and he didn't sugarcoat what happened to the union the last time it sat across the table with the league.

"I don't think it's a matter of conjecture whether the players made significant concessions in the last agreement," he said. "It was an enormous amount of money in terms of the wealth transfer over the period of the agreement. The players understand what that was.
"They understand what happened."

i think this "we were wronged" attitude is partly to blame in all of this

Edited by chances14, 17 December 2012 - 03:03 PM.

[Euro_Twins]

Guess what has two thumbs and deleted more posts in this thread?

This guy.

(I guess the joke only works if you see me pointing at myself).


For the thousandth time, discuss the lockout and the content of people's post, not the person making the post. For example, if you find yourself typing "you" a lot in your post, you might want to take a timeout, re-read it, and make sure you're discussing the topic at hand and not the person. Otherwise it's going to get deleted.

It's also getting to the point where snarky, smartass posts will be deleted as they're basically flame baiting, which is against forum rules.

We've made countless warnings in this thread. I understand that we're all mad and frustrated about the situation, but do I really need to start suspending more people for such a pointless thing as arguing about the lockout?

YOU are absolutely right

Seriously though this lockout has annoyed me beyong belief, and therefor I will no longer be participating in any lockout discussioons until Fehr and Bettman get their heads out of their own ...

[RippedOnNitro]

Will the league and the PA stubbornly let the season burn because of their refusal to meet in the middle on two key issues? I'm perplexed. Because:

1. The league wants a 10-year deal. The players want eight. This is the opposite of what it should be. If I'm a player, I want a 20-year deal. Hell yeah. Because the owners will just play another stupid lockout stunt, and take take take again. Bet the players wished the last CBA was 10 years…
Fehr's reason for the shorter term? Because the future players in the league will be in a CBA that they didn't get to vote on. Garbage. This is just a Fehr power trip, trying to say 'black' because the owners said 'white'. Dumb.

2. The league wants to cap contracts at five years. The players want it capped at eight years. More backwards ideals. Granted, two dozen or so players would benefit from eight-year deals, thanks to injuries, etc. The Marc Savards and the Rick DiPietros of the future will thank Fehr for being stubborn here. But the Taylor Halls and the Ryan Nugent-Hopkins will say "s***, had I signed for five years, I'd have a new contract for Year 6 and with salaries rising like they have been, I'd be making $10 million that year. Instead, I'm in Year 6 of an eight-year deal and I'm stuck making $5 million."

Other issues…

3. The league wants the gap in dollars between the top-salary year of a contract and the bottom-salary year of a contract to be 5% at the most. The PA wants this to be 75%. Okay, this is the first bit of stubbornness that actually makes sense for the players. Frankly, I think if they agreed to meet in the middle for points one and two (and again, they should actually meet the owners all the way - and then take it even further…they have it bass-ackwards), they can get this point to be closer to 20%

4. The NHLPA wants a cap on escrow. Another thing that makes sense, though from what I can gather this is a 'new' thing that they tossed into the discussion less than two weeks ago. I don't see why the league can't give this to them.

So that's where we're at, folks. Is the season done?

The NHLPA, if they vote to enact the disclaimer of interest, the two sides will have 20 days to get a deal done or the season is essentially toast. So if you want your hard date, it's January 6. Although, I'm not sure about "business days" or "any day". And with Christmas in there then perhaps 20 days becomes closer to 30. But regardless, I'm sure that exact, accurate detail is known by both sides. So they have their "drop dead" date. It will speed things along finally.