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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread


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#2421 frankgrimes

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 09:17 PM

The funny part about this:

We're only hearing about the problems and how bad they are, when the CBA is up other than that the league is always thriving and bringing in record numbers. Go figure something is obviosuly wrong here.

But if both sides are really that stupid and blow the second season in 7 years away screw them all.

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#2422 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:31 AM

Any company that turns a 3.3 billion dollar profit is "stable" and the NHL is no different.


After 120 pages of discussion there really should be no confusion between profit and revenue. 3.3 billion is NHL's revenue (according to whatever was the definition of hockey-related revenue in old CBA). Profit is more or less what is left from these 3.3 billion after all expenses including players salary are paid. I think the league if profitable as a whole, but few teams (like Toronto) generate most of that profit (and revenues for that matter).

Having said that I do agree with the premise of the article. Before complaining about hardship owners only need collectively to look in the mirror for the cause. Players did not exactly went on strike fighting for more money. They just took what GMs offered.

#2423 kipwinger

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:33 AM

After 120 pages of discussion there really should be no confusion between profit and revenue. 3.3 billion is NHL's revenue (according to whatever was the definition of hockey-related revenue in old CBA). Profit is more or less what is left from these 3.3 billion after all expenses including players salary are paid. I think the league if profitable as a whole, but few teams (like Toronto) generate most of that profit (and revenues for that matter).

Having said that I do agree with the premise of the article. Before complaining about hardship owners only need collectively to look in the mirror for the cause. Players did not exactly went on strike fighting for more money. They just took what GMs offered.


Point taken, however if you look at most professional sports leagues (or maybe all of them) there is some sort of revenue sharing agreement. The fact that some teams lose money does not mean the league as a whole is unstable. One could easily say the same thing about the MLB where the league is doing just fine, but A LOT of teams lose money.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#2424 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:11 AM

Point taken, however if you look at most professional sports leagues (or maybe all of them) there is some sort of revenue sharing agreement. The fact that some teams lose money does not mean the league as a whole is unstable. One could easily say the same thing about the MLB where the league is doing just fine, but A LOT of teams lose money.


I do not disagree on revenue sharing. Rich teams do need opponents to generate their large revenues so they might as well share the proceeds. And fans probably do want to see their team beat up on poor southern cousins once in a while.

#2425 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:02 AM

From TSN:


National Hockey League deputy commissioner Bill Daly believes there's still hope for an NHL season.

Daly appeared on HNIC Radio on Wednesday and was direct in his answer when pressed on his outlook for a 2012-13 NHL season.

When asked: "Yes or no, do we have a season?", his answer was clear.

"Yes," said Daly.

Daly expanded on his comments on TSN Radio 1290 Winnipeg's Hustler and Lawless show later in the day.

"I tend to be more optimistic than some of the people I work with," Daly said. "The bottom line is – [and] my view on this has been the same from the start – there's no reason we shouldn't be playing hockey."

"I'd like to think that at the end of the day that reason will prevail," he added, "and if reason prevails, we'll play a hockey season this year."


This is an excellent example of "lip service".

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#2426 hillbillywingsfan

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:23 AM

From TSN:



This is an excellent example of "lip service".

And if he would of came out and just flat said "Yeah probably not gonna have a season this year" you and a bunch of others on here would of blown up and came up with a bunch of other silly names for "Buttman" because WE ALL know that its Bettmans fault and only his fault.



I mean really...what the heck would you rather him say!?!

Edited by hillbillywingsfan, 20 December 2012 - 11:44 AM.

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#2427 Nightfall

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:15 AM

http://www.post-gaze...lockout-667066/

This was rather depressing. 45 people drop their season tickets but the waitlist is at 9500. I guess that why they think the fans will come back.
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#2428 rrasco

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:11 AM

Any company that turns a 3.3 billion dollar profit is "stable" and the NHL is no different. It looks less stable because it shares less money which, as the article you linked points out, is what keeps small market teams in the other leagues competitive. The only thing that restricts the NHL's growth potential compared to the NBA, NFL, or MLB is that it really can't be played by kids growing up down south. And without a lifelong commitment to a game, it's hard to build fans. Other than that, it's no less "stable" than any of the other major leagues.


I guess what confuses me is that the NHL thinks it can survive with the least amount of RS among major NA sports leagues, and their revenues are less than the others as well. Even if a CBA is signed today, it won't fix anything.

I can attest to knowing what it's like growing up in the South and the viability of the sport around here. I wanted to play hockey, but it's not offered in schools. If I wanted to play sports, I could play football, baseball, or basketball. There are hockey leagues here (one place) but it's expensive and has to be sought out. I didn't have those resources when I was younger. The sports is definitely growing here though, and it's not so uncommon for draft picks to come out of Texas now.

From TSN:

This is an excellent example of "lip service".


There was a little more to it though. When given those choices, he had to say yes. Given the potential antitrust lawsuits, if he said no, it could be used against them to argue their faith (good or bad) in negotiations. My prediction is in the next 3 weeks or so we'll either see a deal get done or the whole thing blown up. Of course, that seems fairly obvious at this point.

But everything discussed was overshadowed by one word Daly said towards the end:
"Yes."
This was in response to the following question, posed to Daly by Friedman: "Bill, 'I hope so' is not allowed to be an answer to this question or 'I want to believe so' is not an answer to this question. Yes or no: do we have a season?"


http://sports.yahoo....00380--nhl.html

Edited by rrasco, 20 December 2012 - 10:16 AM.

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#2429 F.Michael

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:31 AM

Thank goodness for the Sony Playstation Network! It helped restore a bit of my sanity during this lockout.
I just downloaded and watched the December 2, 1995 Detroit-Montreal game, where we chased Roy outta the net and outta Montreal in a 12-1 blowout. :yahoo:

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I remember that game...Snowy night in Montreal...I on the other hand was watching the game on the "Deuce" - aka - ESPN 2.

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#2430 Dabura

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:59 PM

It's really the owners protecting themselves from themselves.


And to that end they...lock the players out, kill league operations, kick off "negotiations" with one of the oldest underhanded negotiating tricks in the book, single-mindedly endeavor to destroy Donald Fehr, etc. And all of this is costing them how much $$$ every day? And it's driving away how many fans, how many potential patrons? And it's wrecking how many oh-so-lowly livelihoods (e.g. vendors)? And it's doing how much damage to the NHL (hot on the heels of last season's record revenue)?

Just saying.

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#2431 RedWingsDad

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:13 PM

And to that end they...lock the players out, kill league operations, kick off "negotiations" with one of the oldest underhanded negotiating tricks in the book, single-mindedly endeavor to destroy Donald Fehr, etc. And all of this is costing them how much $$$ every day? And it's driving away how many fans, how many potential patrons? And it's wrecking how many oh-so-lowly livelihoods (e.g. vendors)? And it's doing how much damage to the NHL (hot on the heels of last season's record revenue)?

Just saying.


I guess the collective owners, a group of (mostly) successful business people, feels it's better for their long term NHL related revenues to miss out on current revenues in order to secure more favourable terms in the CBA. If they are right, it is better for the players as well. A folded team hires no players, vendors, staff etc. A team bleeding money generally has less to spend on player contracts, staff, and attracts less vendors. On the other hand, a team making money can afford to pay players more, attracts vendors, and generally employ more people.

In this light, perhaps you should support the owners... that is, if your goal is for players to get more money, and concern for the vendors is sincere.
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#2432 Dabura

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:16 PM

Posted Image

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#2433 amato

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:25 PM

Posted Image


he knew.

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#2434 hillbillywingsfan

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:42 PM

And to that end they...lock the players out, kill league operations, kick off "negotiations" with one of the oldest underhanded negotiating tricks in the book, single-mindedly endeavor to destroy Donald Fehr, etc. And all of this is costing them how much $$$ every day? And it's driving away how many fans, how many potential patrons? And it's wrecking how many oh-so-lowly livelihoods (e.g. vendors)? And it's doing how much damage to the NHL (hot on the heels of last season's record revenue)?

Just saying.

I think he is doing a bang up job himself...doesn't need any help.
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#2435 rrasco

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 02:00 PM

I went back and tried to find the video of Costas Tonight with Gary Bettman. I found it, but it was missing the part I wanted to show, when Stern and Bettman were both talking to Costas. I thought it was interesting how Stern essentially answered for Bettman when Costas asked if they were going to hold out for 50/50. I could not locate that video though.

During my search, I watched some of the video again and read some of the quotes. The source of a quote that had alluded me, I stumbled across. I thought it was an important counter-argument to those who say that Fehr was stalling negotiations back in January, because it doesn't sound like Bettman had any intention of negotiating back then either.

Bettman on CBA negotiations:

"I've made it a practice not to talk about collective bargaining because we're having a great season and it's not something we're engaged in right now."

http://www.sportsbus...tman-Stern.aspx


I also thought it was interesting how Bettman essentially brags about coming back from the last lockout after 'shutting our doors for a year'. That part starts at 15:30. Most of this interview is about concussions and fighting.

http://video.nbcspor...593035#46593035

Also, just because it's kind of weird to go back and read stuff we were posting about a potential lockout back in March...here is the thread I had started about this episode of Costas Tonight.

http://www.letsgowin...costas-tonight/

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#2436 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:47 PM

per Dreger:

Expect word today\tonight the NHL will cancel regular season games thru Jan 14th. End of the line after that...I suspect.



#2437 rrasco

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:55 PM

I believe Daly said in his interview they were expecting to cancel the next block of games this week, so no surprise there.

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#2438 kipwinger

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:31 PM

And here's to you Evander Kane, for dim-wittedly destroying any good will the players might still have in the minds of many fans. Nothing says "we're the good guys" like flaunting your stacks of money in a Las Vegas penthouse. Atta boy.

Posted Image

Edited by kipwinger, 20 December 2012 - 04:32 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#2439 kipwinger

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:51 PM

Aaaand, here's to you Derick Brassard, Tobias Enstrom, Derek Dorsett, and David Clarkson for taking the hard right over the easy wrong, and in the process showing the owners that real men honor the contracts they sign!

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=411949

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#2440 rrasco

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:51 PM

Sad that I hear about game cancellations from my local news before I see it elsewhere. I thought it was particularly interesting they used a picture from JLA. It's like they're trying to break my heart. </3

NEW YORK (AP) — The NHL has wiped out all games through Jan. 14, and if it needs to make any more cancellations, the entire season could be the next thing to go.


http://www.mysananto...-14-4135777.php

Did that picture of Kane just come out Kip?

Edited by rrasco, 20 December 2012 - 04:53 PM.

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MONEY ON THE BOARD: $10/Kronwalling, $1/goal by: Nyquist, Tatar, Jurco, Sheahan, Glendening, Andersson, Dekeyser, Pulkinnen, Ouellet, or Sproul.  2X MULTIPLIER: Glendening.  MOTB TOTAL: $0






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