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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread


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#381 55fan

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:01 AM

It's the only way to look at it.
Is Sochi 2014 being discussed, or is that going to be a separate circus?
Uncle Gary sez: you get the Olympics, we get a bigger percentage.
I can smell it coming.

I wondered if this was a factor in Bettman's refusal to use the option to play this season on the old CBA. Not all of the players will be going to the Olympics, or even competing for a spot on their country's team, but those that are are quite influential.

I would think that the threat of a lockout during the year of the Olympics would be less of a threat, at least to those who have a great desire to play, than the threat of the lockout extending into a second year.

It wouldn't be the be-all and end-all, but it could be a factor used as leverage in negotiation.

#382 Nightfall

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:08 AM

It's the only way to look at it.
Is Sochi 2014 being discussed, or is that going to be a separate circus?
Uncle Gary sez: you get the Olympics, we get a bigger percentage.
I can smell it coming.

Not in my view.

The NHLPA and the NHL could have started meeting in January to go through everything except the financials. They could have talked realignment. They could have discussed drug testing. Even the financials for the last 4-5 years could have been discussed. Middle of the season or not, the NHLPA drug its feet and waited until the last minute to start negotiations.
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#383 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:04 AM

Here's a somewhat dry but pretty good explanation of how Hockey Related Revenue makes things more complicated than they seem. It's not as simple as figuring out how much total revenue was generated and giving the players 57% of it. The players are already getting a reduced share.

http://www.cbc.ca/sp...ed-revenue.html

#384 rrasco

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:02 AM

Yeah, the league was willing to negotiate in January just like they were willing to negotiate on Sep. 15 to prevent the lockout.

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#385 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:41 AM

Here's a somewhat dry but pretty good explanation of how Hockey Related Revenue makes things more complicated than they seem. It's not as simple as figuring out how much total revenue was generated and giving the players 57% of it. The players are already getting a reduced share.

http://www.cbc.ca/sp...ed-revenue.html


Here is a quote from this article which covers the current state of affairs.

With the National Hockey League wanting player costs to drop immediately and the NHL Players' Association proposing instead to slow salaries against revenue growth, we're at an impasse. And the overwhelming answer to a question about how the gap can be bridged?

"I don't know."

But the majority opinion from people on both sides of the argument is this: there's no incentive for anyone to back down now and when they are ready for serious conversations, they (initially, at least) will be kept private.



#386 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:06 PM

Not in my view.

The NHLPA and the NHL could have started meeting in January to go through everything except the financials. They could have talked realignment. They could have discussed drug testing. Even the financials for the last 4-5 years could have been discussed. Middle of the season or not, the NHLPA drug its feet and waited until the last minute to start negotiations.


"Don Fehr obviously being somewhat new to the job is going through a bit of a learning curve and wants to make sure he understands what his constituents want. And so, we're patient. I'm not concerned about the time frame."


You know who said that? Uncle Gary, in January.

...the NHLPA drug...


Freudian slip?

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#387 Nightfall

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 03:03 PM

You know who said that? Uncle Gary, in January.

Neither side was concerned about the time frame. I guess they were both wrong.

Yeah, the league was willing to negotiate in January just like they were willing to negotiate on Sep. 15 to prevent the lockout.

So, your argument was that you didn't believe it. So we provide proof that the league was ready to negotiate early, and this is your response. I really try to take what the NHL and NHLPA say at face value. I guess I don't understand how some people can take what one side says as the truth while taking what the other side says as false.
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#388 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:02 PM

Apparently end of lockout by January 1 is already considered optimistic.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=406504

GRETZKY OPTIMISTIC, THINKS NHL LOCKOUT WILL END BY JAN. 1



#389 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:03 PM

Negotiations starting in January would not have prevented this lockout.

"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

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#390 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:11 PM

From TSN:


NHL labour talks are set to resume Tuesday morning, with discussions focusing on hockey-related revenue and not the core economic issues that continue to divide the two sides in a league-imposed lockout entering its third week.

A person familiar with negotiations, on Monday, provided the details of what was expected to be discussed at the meeting that will be held in New York. The person spoke on the condition of anonymity because the NHL and the NHL Players' Association have not issued an update on talks.

The person added there are currently no other meetings planned beyond Tuesday.


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#391 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:30 PM

even though the meeting may not directly address the core economic issues, sorting out exactly what constitutes Hockey Related Revenue is obviously critical to negotiating the percentages of it.

Bettman already tried to pull a fast one by reducing the players share of HRR while also reducing what constitutes HRR. Now that he's been called out on it, it's nice that they're actually going to define what it is they're trying to divide between the two sides.

Can't they just treat it like a cookie and do the old parent trick where one kid gets to split it into two pieces and the other gets to pick which piece they get? That process is elegantly simple in dividing something equitably.

#392 Nightfall

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:19 PM

Negotiations starting in January would not have prevented this lockout.

There is no way we will ever know. Point is that the lack of urgency on one side does not excuse the behavior or attitude. I believe that negotiating early would not have hurt.

Can't they just treat it like a cookie and do the old parent trick where one kid gets to split it into two pieces and the other gets to pick which piece they get? That process is elegantly simple in dividing something equitably.

I agree.

They should just get a mother to come in and split everything evenly for them. A professional mother negotiator. :D

Edited by Nightfall, 01 October 2012 - 08:21 PM.

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#393 sleepwalker

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:51 PM

Apparently end of lockout by January 1 is already considered optimistic.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=406504


Lol, silly Canadians and their u's...

Its spelled Ann Arbor.

#394 RippedOnNitro

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:50 AM

even though the meeting may not directly address the core economic issues, sorting out exactly what constitutes Hockey Related Revenue is obviously critical to negotiating the percentages of it.

Bettman already tried to pull a fast one by reducing the players share of HRR while also reducing what constitutes HRR. Now that he's been called out on it, it's nice that they're actually going to define what it is they're trying to divide between the two sides.

Can't they just treat it like a cookie and do the old parent trick where one kid gets to split it into two pieces and the other gets to pick which piece they get? That process is elegantly simple in dividing something equitably.


I actually like that idea...probably won't work since both kids want to split the cookie and pick one themselves.
First round series win: $0 () Second round series win: $0 () Third round series win: $0 () Fourth round series win: $0 () Goal difference: $0 (-3) Shutout difference: $0 (0) SHG difference: $0 (0) Extra points reg. season: $3 (102)

TOTAL COLLECTED: $0 TOTAL BONUS IF STANLEY CUP: $3

#395 RippedOnNitro

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:57 AM

Apparently end of lockout by January 1 is already considered optimistic.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=406504


Missing half a season is optimistic? YIKES!!!

I would call it disastrous...but then again I am not a hockey legend.
First round series win: $0 () Second round series win: $0 () Third round series win: $0 () Fourth round series win: $0 () Goal difference: $0 (-3) Shutout difference: $0 (0) SHG difference: $0 (0) Extra points reg. season: $3 (102)

TOTAL COLLECTED: $0 TOTAL BONUS IF STANLEY CUP: $3

#396 Johnz96

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:22 AM

http://www.facebook....92351460835362/

#397 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:18 AM

Uncle Gary has already established a propensity to "lock the door"; this round of negotiating would not have been any different. The owners "love" him.
I read in the today's Toronto Star that season ticket sales for the AHL's Toronto Marlies will increase about 74% and attendance will be up about 15% over last seasons figures.

"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

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#398 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:29 AM

Lol, silly Canadians and their u's...

Its spelled Ann Arbor.


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#399 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:54 AM

From TSN:


The NHL and NHL Players' Association ended two hours of talks on Tuesday in New York, with no progress made after a session focusing on hockey-related revenue.

"No progress to report," NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told reporters after the meeting. "No progress was made. Unless they show some willingness to compromise, I don't know how we get this done.""

No further meetings between the two sides have been planned.


"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

- Harry James Benson, CBE.


#400 Seraph

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:56 AM

From TSN:

Oh boy, I'm pretty sure agreeing to disagree is not the best approach on this particular issue.

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