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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread


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#521 chances14

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:50 AM

“We know we’re going to have to take a hit,” Capitals defenseman Karl Alzner told CSNWashington.com “It’s just how big of a hit we need to take.”

“I think both sides know what their next proposal is, it’s just who wants to give it first,” Alzner said. “The owners know what their bottom percentage is and I’m sure Don [Fehr] knows what’s going to be a good one for us economically.

“But who’s going to be the first one to bite the bullet? No one wants to lose the negotiation. We understand we’re definitely not going to win it.”


http://www.csnwashin...09&feedID=10283


i bet fehr won't be happy some of his players are already admitting defeat

Edited by chances14, 06 October 2012 - 11:50 AM.


#522 RippedOnNitro

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:57 AM

I think the principle players are talking about is the rollback of the existing contracts. They agreed to it once and feel that as a result owners are trying to do it again and will try it the future. So they would like to reset the precedent.


Well...that only goes as far as some players. Since Ovi, Cindy, Malkin, Tavares, Stamkos etc. did not even played back then. I also can't imagine it's the players who only have a few years left in their career...they just want to play now.

i bet fehr won't be happy some of his players are already admitting defeat


Well...it is not like Fehr is their employer...it is the other way around. The players should not be happy with Fehr if the final deal delivers less money than the deal they can sign right now.
First round series win: $0 () Second round series win: $0 () Third round series win: $0 () Fourth round series win: $0 () Goal difference: $0 (-3) Shutout difference: $0 (0) SHG difference: $0 (0) Extra points reg. season: $3 (102)

TOTAL COLLECTED: $0 TOTAL BONUS IF STANLEY CUP: $3

#523 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:57 AM

i bet fehr won't be happy some of his players are already admitting defeat

I dont know that it's necessarily admitting defeat.

From their first proposal, the players never asked for anything more than what they have right now. They've just been trying to lose less. So from day one they knew any deal wasn't going to be as good as the last CBA. Fehr himself has said as much.

#524 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:07 PM

That doesn't sound like admitting defeat. However, Alzner should keep his mouth shut.

"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

- Harry James Benson, CBE.


#525 chances14

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:13 PM

I dont know that it's necessarily admitting defeat.

From their first proposal, the players never asked for anything more than what they have right now. They've just been trying to lose less. So from day one they knew any deal wasn't going to be as good as the last CBA. Fehr himself has said as much.


i dunno about that

from the article:

Today, NHL players will tell you they will never agree to play in a league that cuts their existing salaries. Care to take a guess on how that will end up?

“We know we’re going to have to take a hit,” Capitals defenseman Karl Alzner told CSNWashington.com “It’s just how big of a hit we need to take.”


to me it sounds like he is admitting that they will have to take a salary rollback, which goes completely against the NHLPA's current stance.

the question becomes whether he was referring specifically to salary rollbacks or the players share of revenue

Edited by chances14, 06 October 2012 - 12:13 PM.


#526 RippedOnNitro

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 12:56 PM

to me it sounds like he is admitting that they will have to take a salary rollback, which goes completely against the NHLPA's current stance.

the question becomes whether he was referring specifically to salary rollbacks or the players share of revenue


If the NHLPA's most important point is no salary rollback then they are already failing...every cancelled game costs revenue.
A missed paycheck for the first year already means a loss of 8.3% (1/12th). Or maybe more...since I am not sure how many paychecks a player receives per year?
First round series win: $0 () Second round series win: $0 () Third round series win: $0 () Fourth round series win: $0 () Goal difference: $0 (-3) Shutout difference: $0 (0) SHG difference: $0 (0) Extra points reg. season: $3 (102)

TOTAL COLLECTED: $0 TOTAL BONUS IF STANLEY CUP: $3

#527 Dabura

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 02:44 PM

"I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want"
"So tell me what you want, what you really, really want"
"I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want"
"So tell me what you want, what you really, really want"

Don't Toews me, bro!


#528 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 02:58 PM

i dunno about that

from the article:



to me it sounds like he is admitting that they will have to take a salary rollback, which goes completely against the NHLPA's current stance.

the question becomes whether he was referring specifically to salary rollbacks or the players share of revenue

But that's a rhetorical question posed by the author in the article, not to Alzner.

It could mean that. There's really no context so who knows. But I think all the players are aware that under any new CBA the conditions will be less favorable than what they have right now.

The league is trying to avoid saying the word "rollback" but to cut salaries to the degree they want, they're gonna need a rollback because of the asinine contracts the owners handed out right before the CBA expired. Or create some luxury tax for going over the tax, which is never gonna happen.

It seems like a decent compromise is just to let the players percentage of revenue decrease in a stepped way over the length of the CBA, which is pretty much a version of what the union proposed. Both sides just need to agree on the eventual percentage. Well, first they need to agree on what constitutes HRR.

Even with the stepped down decrease, it seems like both sides could end up making more money overall because it would bring a relatively quick end to the lockout.

#529 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:49 PM

Future Pulitzer prize nominee Ilya Bryzgalov with a look at the present and the future:


"(NHL) owners...they create this situation and they put themselves into this situation," explained Bryzgalov. "Like I said before, they have to take responsibility for their own actions.

"If you watch what they did consistently, like saying: 'It's going to be (a) lockout. We're not happy with the system, we can't operate with the system that we had'...and (yet) they continued to sign the players during the negotiation process, signing the players to long-term contracts for big amounts."



"I think some of the players may not return to the NHL because you have everything here and major companies are going to pay the top players here big money. And, especially for Russians players who can play at home in front of their own fans and families and [earn] even bigger money than they have in the National Hockey League," said Bryzgalov.

"The KHL can't feed all the players, but for some big players - especially those with Russian passports - it might be a threat."


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#530 ogreslayer

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:49 PM

Interesting tweets from Bob McKenzie tonight. In their entirety:

My instincts say we'll lose the whole year but we've still got a month or two to salvage a Dec or Jan start up, so we'll see. I suspect we'll see our first real movement from either side in coming week but whether that creates legit traction for talks, who knows? At this point, I don't doubt either side's resolve. That may be the problem. Owners think players will cave. Players think owners will cave. I think, like last time, we'll lose the season before anyone blinks.



Would losing a second season within 10 years be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

#531 Ally

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:50 PM

I wish Bryz had described the contracts as humangous big.

 
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#532 FireCaptain

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:53 AM

On average, they are paid 16 times. Bi-monthly checks from the month in which the season starts to the month in which it ends - typically October to April (8 months).

The players have missed their first check so far, but a little relief is coming later this month when they receive the escrow rebate from last year. After that, no checks in sight.

I read all this within the last couple days.. can't remember where or I would cite it.

If the NHLPA's most important point is no salary rollback then they are already failing...every cancelled game costs revenue.
A missed paycheck for the first year already means a loss of 8.3% (1/12th). Or maybe more...since I am not sure how many paychecks a player receives per year?


Edited by FireCaptain, 07 October 2012 - 08:55 AM.

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#533 frankgrimes

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:09 AM

I love it, some superstars are already threatening the NHL because now they do have alternatives and other leagues to play in. If we lose Datsyuk because of this I'll swear I gonna lose it.

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#534 The Axe

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:46 AM

The players who want to play by the new cba the owners want- stay. Those that dont- leave. Lets get on with it already.

#535 esteef

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:29 AM

Maybe all the "euros" will go back to play in Europe and they'll rename the NHL the Don Cherry Hockey League! :w00t:

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#536 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:11 PM

Fans = collateral damage.

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#537 Hiei

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:18 PM

I'm calling for a full boycott of the NHL. What would the NHL have to say to a half-empty JLA? or MSG? What about if the Air Canada Centre was half empty? or if Newark was a ghost town and Long Island had no one show up at all? We need to send a STRONG message that we are your bosses. We are the ones who decide if you get our money today or not. WE decide if your league state is good or bad.

Let the NHL store in NYC get overloaded with merch and just walk by it. Get Buttman out there to peddle jerseys and t-shirts.

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#538 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 06:57 PM

Posted Image

"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

- Harry James Benson, CBE.


#539 frankgrimes

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:14 PM

Donald Fehr head of the NHLPA gave a great interview http://www.theglobea...article4593338/

If a team is kept in a city in which it is not doing very well, and there is another place it could be relocated and do better and make labour relations and everything else easier, and the decision is to leave it in the first city, whose responsibility is that and who ought to bear the cost for it? Those questions from our standpoint have self-evident answers.

‘We have teams that aren’t doing so well, so let’s lower salaries on the teams that aren’t doing so well so we will be comfortable with it. Forget whether any management failure had a part in it. But we’re also going to lower the salaries on the teams that are making very large profits by the same amount.’ That sort of means we’re going to pay the players based on the worst performing, least efficient, most undercapitalized teams.

one of the things we wonder is that if you have to have a rule like the owners do, where if you say anything that isn’t approved, you can be fined an enormous amount of money? That raises two questions: When in the world did we get to the point of regulating free speech in America again? And secondly, what is it we’re afraid they’re going to say?


Top quotes from the interview I'd advise everyone here to read it, it is really well thought out, positive and shows exactly what a great hiring this guy is. He also pointed out how the players could have gone the catch me if you can route with their first proposal.

btw. all these CBA crap doesn't look even look at some insane tax fees.

Edited by frankgrimes, 07 October 2012 - 07:26 PM.

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Welcome to hockeytown Jonas aka Lundquist 2 Gustavsson!

blank cheque for The Captain or Jim Star Nil please..


#540 The Axe

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:43 PM

The NHL needs to get out of this mess fast. If the players cant deal with 43% of the billions that come in, let them go. Im sure there are others who will.





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