2458 replies to this topic

[frankgrimes]

I don't even need to think who I am siding with, it is so easy a monkey could make that decision. The players are the ones I am cheering for, the players are giving their heart & soul every minute for our Entertainment they want a fair deal, the midget and those greedy billionaires want a screw you deal.

If I am fair the first thing I'd make clear is to can the so called commissioner otherwhise there won't any negotiations for the time being.

Record revenues since 7 freaking years and yet here we go with a lockout again and the same bs in 7 years again, rince repat owners and midget can go jump of a bridge couldn't care less greedy a....h...s

Edited by frankgrimes, 16 September 2012 - 02:32 PM.

[Wingers17]

My belief is there never is justification for a lockout or running out of time with negotiations. How long have they known about the CBA expiration? Oh, yeah, since the last one was signed.

Waiting to the last minute is ridiculous.

Edited by Wingers17, 16 September 2012 - 02:45 PM.

[haroldsnepsts]

Are you aware how much Don Fehr and his little brother were making?

Well above 2/3 of hockey players.

And his sole purpose of existence - to negotiate new CBA. He failed.
I very much dislike what Battman is doing, but from business perspective his done an OK job until yesterday, while Don Ferh is complete failure.

Fehr's job is to keep the players from getting completely screwed over by the owners and get a fair deal.

I wouldn't say he's failed yet.

Per the NHL constitution Bettman's job is (emphasis mine):

The Commissioner shall serve as the Chief Executive Officer of the League and is charged with protecting the integrity of the game of professional hockey and preserving public confidence in the League. The Board of Governors shall determine the term of office and compensation of the Commissioner. The Commissioner shall be elected a majority of the Governors present and voting at a League meeting at which a quorum was present when it was convened.“^[1]

In Section 6.3, his duties are spelled out as having "responsibility for the general supervision and direction of all business and affairs of the League", co-ordinates matters between member clubs and serves as the principal public spokesman for the League. The Commissioner also has authority over dispute resolution, League committees, interpretation of League rules, appointment of League staff, NHL financial matters, contracting authority, scheduling, officials and disciplinary powers.

7 years ago the players agreed to a salary cap and a 24% rollback of their salaries. Since then revenue has increased by 50%. Bettman and the owners initial proposal for this CBA required the players to cut their salaries 11% and got rid of almost any contract conditions favorable to players. UFA status, rookie contracts, signing bonuses, arbitration.

As someone in the press said at the time, the NHL's offer wasn't a negotiation, it was a declaration of war on the players union.

Since then, the league has only taken baby steps away from that ridiculous initial proposal. All this when the league as a whole is profitable and poised to make other great leaps forward in the popularity of the game.

For the players union to respond in kind, their initial proposal should have been getting rid of the cap. Then their initial concessions could be allowing the cap, but they get 63% of revenue instead of 57%

[Detroit # 1 Fan]

Sucks that were going to lose hockey, again. But as a guy who lives in an AHL city I cannot wait to see the AHL action this season. The Ice Caps were quite good last season, and seeing teams like the Griffins, Oil Barons, Marlies, Astros and Norfolk on occasion will be fantastic hockey.

[ami]

Fehr's job is to keep the players from getting completely screwed over by the owners and get a fair deal.

Last time I checked, even players who never played in the league have agents, lawers etc. to help them with contract negotiation. These are getting paid by players and I haven't heard a player who was forced to sign a contract.

Sometime, reading comments I picture these poor players as 5-year old kids who can barely read. But they are not!

And by the way, I don't think PA and Don Fehr has a say in any of those contract negotiations.

NHLPA is then a redundant organisation. Their bosses are not professional players, they are not running the league, they are not running a professional hockey clubs. Who are they? What they do? Protecting right, keeping players from getting screwed? Give me a one example of a right violated by club/leagu and a player suffering or give me a break.

I wouldn't say he's failed yet.

Agree. Not yet. We'll see. If season starts on time, I'll send him a post card with warm congrats.

Per the NHL constitution Bettman's job is (emphasis mine):

His success or failure is measured by revenue the league generates. This is a most important countable measure of "public confidence in the League". And you are absolutely right, the league revenue has increased by 50% in 7 years.

However, increased revenue does not necceserally means increase in profit. And running a business, a professional hockey club, aims generating a profit. And I supposed you know that half of the league's teams are loosing money...

Edited by ami, 16 September 2012 - 04:25 PM.

[BottleOfSmoke]

@Proteautype: THIS JUST IN: A fleet of New York City firemen have been dispatched to fight a raging pants fire at NHL headquarters.

Normally I think Proteau is kind of a d**che (though that doesnt keep me from agreeing with him occasionally), but this made me LOL.

Edited by BottleOfSmoke, 16 September 2012 - 04:39 PM.

[frankgrimes]

Blocked nhl.com and all of its affiliates with my firewall, sick of reading the PR crap and not giving those greedy owners any hits as long as the midget will be hired instead of fired.

His success or failure is measured by revenue the league generates. This is a most important countable measure of "public confidence in the League". And you are absolutely right, the league revenue has increased by 50% in 7 years.

However, increased revenue does not necceserally means increase in profit. And running a business, a professional hockey club, aims generating a profit. And I supposed you know that half of the league's teams are loosing money...

His success are failed expansions, failed CBA negotiations in 3 of 3 tries wow what a great track record.

Edited by frankgrimes, 16 September 2012 - 05:02 PM.

[pazzloski]

This whole situation makes me sick...

[wingsgirl001]

what a bunch of bulls***.

guess we'll be heading over to Grand Rapids to catch some Griffins games this year...

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

Well, I knew it was inevitable, but I held out hope. Now that its official, let me say this:

This is absolutely ridiculous. These idiots have known that this will happen for years now, and they start seriously negotiating 2 weeks before the CBA expires? This is a joke. Unfortunately, the game we all love has been hijacked by greed. Nobody cares about the fans. They can give a s*** less about the fans. If we, the fans, are so worthless, then we should just stop watching and lining these ass holes' pockets. These guys are on the top of the world because of us. If it wasn't for the fans, all of these greedy f uckers would be struggling like the rest of us. The owners want everyone to take salary rollbacks as a result of their own fiscal irresponsibility. Well thats their own fault. The players aren't completely innocent, either. I will not be logging onto NHL.com anymore. I'm not gonna waste my time . I've cancelled my NHL Center Ice subscription. I just don't give a s hit anymore. F uck these greedy pigs.

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros, 16 September 2012 - 06:13 PM.

[Vladifan]

There are only two things that I'm sure of in this whole mess. That Bettman should be kicked out on his ass. The other is that it ain't gonna happen because the owners, in spite of their ineptitude, are making big bucks.

[Crashnburnluder]

I was trying to think of ways to fight back and it's hard cause it's the sport I love and I love the red wings.... But...

From this point on for every day we are
Locked out of the NHL is a day I will not spend money on the NHL when it returns....

10 days of lock out means I wont purchase jerseys, key chains, tshirts, mouse pads lol anything... If I purchase anything it will be through private sellers selling there own stuff that isn't linked to the NHL at all... (aka people reselling stuff on here, etc.)

I know I'm only one person but if even more people do this... You can see a difference...

I really only give exception to Winter Classic (if it happens) and tickets because I believe the players deserve to have us watch them just sucks that we have to pay the owners to get them... But I'm going to make my stand for a small morale victory!!!!

[cusimano_brothers]

Are you aware how much Don Fehr and his little brother were making?

Well above 2/3 of hockey players.

And his sole purpose of existence - to negotiate new CBA. He failed.
I very much dislike what Battman is doing, but from business perspective his done an OK job until yesterday, while Don Ferh is complete failure.

Are you aware what the purpose of a union is? Foremost, it's the protection of it's membership. Mr. Fehr is trying to doing this now; he's atttempting to get the best available deal for ALL of the members. Uncle Gary is trying to attack what so many other businesses try to do: labour costs. From a "business perspective", this is a blatant attempt at the "easy way out".

[MulesWillFly93]

Ok, that's it, I'm moving to Michigan. What am I supposed to do here? The closest thing we've got to pro hockey is a Tier III Juniors team. Oh but wait, we also have college hockey - San Diego State has a club team. I mean, I probably will go to some SDSU games, just so I won't die, but arrrrgh, where are the old school Gulls when you need them? Wish I had the Griffins or Wolverines as a backup plan.

Welp, Bettman can kiss my $$ goodbye. No Winter Classic, no merchandise, no Center Ice (if we did end up getting a partial season), no nothing.

[haroldsnepsts]

Last time I checked, even players who never played in the league have agents, lawers etc. to help them with contract negotiation. These are getting paid by players and I haven't heard a player who was forced to sign a contract.

Sometime, reading comments I picture these poor players as 5-year old kids who can barely read. But they are not!

And by the way, I don't think PA and Don Fehr has a say in any of those contract negotiations.

This being a thread about the lockout, I thought it was pretty obvious that I was referring to Fehr's role representing the union in the current CBA negotiations. Not about negotiating individual contracts for players and their owners.

NHLPA is then a redundant organisation. Their bosses are not professional players, they are not running the league, they are not running a professional hockey clubs. Who are they? What they do? Protecting right, keeping players from getting screwed? Give me a one example of a right violated by club/leagu and a player suffering or give me a break.

I have no idea what you are getting at here. The role of unions in professional sports is pretty well established.

Agree. Not yet. We'll see. If season starts on time, I'll send him a post card with warm congrats.

His success or failure is measured by revenue the league generates. This is a most important countable measure of "public confidence in the League". And you are absolutely right, the league revenue has increased by 50% in 7 years.

However, increased revenue does not necceserally means increase in profit. And running a business, a professional hockey club, aims generating a profit. And I supposed you know that half of the league's teams are loosing money...

The part of your post I underlined is an often repeated falsehood, but it's exactly what the league and Bettman want people to repeat.

By the standard Forbes used in a report I think made a year ago, 18 clubs had negative operating income before things like taxes and depreciation. It's not as simple as "over half the franchises are losing money." It all depends on what they are including as revenue, for example the agreed upon definition of Hockey Related Revenue (which the owners want to change). Half the problem is figuring out which franchises are really in financial trouble. Second to that is figuring out exactly why.

It's not up to the players to make sure these owners turn a profit. It's not up to the players to make a franchise in Phoenix successful for Bettman.

While the players length of the CBA was wrong, the idea of slowing their growth to notch down their percentage of revenue is a good one. But with the massive reduction and other contract stipulations the owner wanted, it was pretty clearly a money grab that would only have a chance at working if they locked the players out and broke their will again.

[Wingers17]

Well, I guess I will be going to see more Utah Grizzlie games...

[Salviaman]

I hope it ends soon. I still want to see the winter classic.

[Barrie]

I think Bettman loses his job when this is all said and done. Seriously, how can he show his face in public ever again without the threat of seriously getting hurt? There's no way he can present the Cup without being completely pelted with food, beer, and garbage, and fans trying to take swings when he walks out.

Probably the worst thing to happen to the owners was they put this system together back in 2005, and now they're crying poor. Why are the players locked out because the owners don't know how to run their sport? Fans and media support the players this time, the longer this thing goes, the more pressure it puts on Bettman and the owners. If anyone caves, it's the owners.

Clearly the problem is the lack of proper revenue sharing, the Floor is bankrupting teams, and there's to many teams in horrible markets. Fehr and the players know this and they aren't giving and inch, and I don't think they have to. The players don't have to do anything until the owners address these 3 issues.

[Barrie]

By the standard Forbes used in a report I think made a year ago, 18 clubs had negative operating income before things like taxes and depreciation. It's not as simple as "over half the franchises are losing money." It all depends on what they are including as revenue, for example the agreed upon definition of Hockey Related Revenue (which the owners want to change). Half the problem is figuring out which franchises are really in financial trouble. Second to that is figuring out exactly why.

Also, all the owners own other businesses, they use hockey losses as write offs for their other businesses when they file their taxes for the year. I own two businesses, the more money you make, the more the Government takes. I'd bet all the owners doctor the books so it doesn't look like they make as much, and those are the numbers they're showing the players now too.

[ami]

.... I have no idea what you are getting at here. The role of unions in professional sports is pretty well established.

Protect the rights of players, keep them from getting crewed by owners? B**S**T!!

If their role is so well established, spell it. Give one impiric example of player right violation that can not be spotted and fixed by his agent?

Well, actually, I give one myself. Remember Fehr rejecting realignment despite majority of players and fans liked it...

The part of your post I underlined is an often repeated falsehood, but it's exactly what the league and Bettman want people to repeat...

Really, and why exactly does Ferh keep bringing back subject of revenue share to the table?