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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread


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#741 Nightfall

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:01 PM

I'll agree with you there, but only because I think the only way a deal gets done if both sides move towards the middle. I can honestly say I have no idea what would be "fair."

I do agree with you here. I have no idea what would be "fair" other than meeting in the middle somewhere. I also dislike Daly playing the PR card saying that they are waiting on a proposal. I will also say that I dislike Fehr being unwilling to put forward a proposal. IMHO, negotiation is just that. It goes back and forth. The NHL did give the last proposal, and Fehr says that this isn't "ping pong". I beg to differ. This is a negotiation, and it should go back and forth. It seems to me that both sides are doing more of playing the PR card than they are at negotiating a deal. That is the most frustrating thing.
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#742 Euro_Twins

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:01 PM

John Shannon of Sportsnet had a few more details. (I got this from Puck Daddy's summary, for the record).



IMO, each of these plans are reasonable. MUCH more so than the original proposal from the league, at least...


The thing that worries me is that Fehr said this proposal is an "Excellent start" meaning (or at least the way I interpret it) he still wants changes made and probably won't accept it the way it is.

I hope I am wrong though :huh2:

#743 Nightfall

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:04 PM

Agreed.

I think this is the first time we'll really get a sense for Fehr's intentions, because it's the first decent offer from the league.

There's a lot of details to be worked out but if there truly is salary protection for players and the NHL backed off it's contract demands, we should be watching hockey very soon.

I am hoping that Fehr makes a concession at this stage as well. Glad to see the owners finally blink though. If anyone had room to move from their position, it was the owners.
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#744 chances14

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:11 PM

omg yes. this is excellent news.

owners made a move. now we find out fehr's true colors

Edited by chances14, 16 October 2012 - 01:12 PM.


#745 Jedi

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:15 PM

By the way. Everyone who was up in arms about the Focus Group news yesterday? The reactions of "Sign it" and "Good news" (myself included) are doing exactly what the league wanted.

The PR war does matter. The owners scored a huge victory in that war today.

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#746 Nightfall

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:22 PM

omg yes. this is excellent news.

owners made a move. now we find out fehr's true colors

I don't think Fehr will accept this offer as is. What I believe will happen is Fehr will come down from his last offer of 54.5% down to 52% or so as a counter offer. Yes, the league made a good concession, but Fehr will counter.
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#747 chances14

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:30 PM

I don't think Fehr will accept this offer as is. What I believe will happen is Fehr will come down from his last offer of 54.5% down to 52% or so as a counter offer. Yes, the league made a good concession, but Fehr will counter.


i don't either but the fact the owners moved on the economic issues makes me positive that we will have hockey by the time the winter classic comes around.

i doubt the season starts november 2nd though.

#748 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:33 PM

McKenzie's twitter:

My take: Too early to say how NHLPA will react to NHL offer but I suspect we're in for 7 to 10 days of really intense bargaining sessions.


It seems like the broad strokes are there. Now they can hopefully start pulling some marathon negotiating sessions over the next several days to get this done.

Honestly if I were the players I'd think about wanting an 78-80 game season instead of trying to cram in the full 82. The season is too long as it is. I can't see the owners giving that up though.

#749 chances14

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:38 PM

here's another little detail that was included in the owners new offer

"Players' Salaries for those NHLers playing in the AHL would be part of the cap." Now, are they formally calling this the Wade Redden Rule or not ...


no more for teams using the AHL to cover up their mistakes

#750 Jedi

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:46 PM

here's another little detail that was included in the owners new offer

"Players' Salaries for those NHLers playing in the AHL would be part of the cap." Now, are they formally calling this the Wade Redden Rule or not ...


no more for teams using the AHL to cover up their mistakes


Good. Now they should look at doing the same thing with overseas loans, too. Imagine Chicago being unable to bury Huet in Switzerland in '10-11... No way they would have made the playoffs if they still had to count his salary towards the cap.

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#751 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:31 PM

Oh GOD I'm trying so hard not to get my hopes up, but I will freely admit to getting butterflies in my belly when I saw all those tweets flying around. GREAT move in the right direction, don't think this will be the end of negotiations but it's a huge step forward.

Maybe the focus groups opened the league's eyes to how much they were despised by the majority of the fans and made them realize they needed to be the ones to initiate the concessions.

Oh PLEASE let something good happen, I was SO not looking forward to using my WC tix as toilet paper...

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#752 evilmrt

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 02:55 PM

McKenzie's twitter:



It seems like the broad strokes are there. Now they can hopefully start pulling some marathon negotiating sessions over the next several days to get this done.

Honestly if I were the players I'd think about wanting an 78-80 game season instead of trying to cram in the full 82. The season is too long as it is. I can't see the owners giving that up though.


Do you think the start of the playoffs will be pushed back to compensate, or will we see a compressed schedule?

They could just drop the All-star crap, in that case.

#753 Jedi

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:00 PM

Do you think the start of the playoffs will be pushed back to compensate, or will we see a compressed schedule?

They could just drop the All-star crap, in that case.


Bettman said compressed schedule, by each team playing an extra game every 5 weeks. Though, as some have already pointed out, that might not add up mathematically. Math hard!!

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#754 hillbillywingsfan

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:06 PM

Do you think the start of the playoffs will be pushed back to compensate, or will we see a compressed schedule?

They could just drop the All-star crap, in that case.

I wish they would just drop the all-star break. It's as worthless as teats on a boar hog.
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#755 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:13 PM

I wish they would just drop the all-star break. It's as worthless as teats on a boar hog.


LOL around here (aka in our house) we say as useless as t*ts on a shovel. Which, I agree, is what the all star break is if we can salvage a complete season without it.

Edited by BottleOfSmoke, 16 October 2012 - 03:14 PM.

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#756 Barrie

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:16 PM

I don't think this really solves anything, other than Bettman/Phoenix and the 7 owners trying to look good to the media and fans. 1/3 of the teams are still almost bankrupt and without proper revenue sharing we'll have another lockout in 6 years.

The system needs to be properly fixed.
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#757 Crashnburnluder

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:24 PM

I maybe one of the few that see it this way but...

I feel that it is quite ironic that shortly after the NHL hires some help from the GOP to help save face, they then offer a proposal that on the surface says we caved and this is completely fair, but in the details the league still gets all of there other demands yes ironed down a bit but all still mainly in tact. I believe firmly the NHLPA will respond with a counter offer instead of accepting which in turns makes fans turn against them. Which is exactly what the NHL wants and hired the GOP to help them do. To me this is just a face saving act.

#758 hillbillywingsfan

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:31 PM

I don't think this really solves anything, other than Bettman/Phoenix and the 7 owners trying to look good to the media and fans. 1/3 of the teams are still almost bankrupt and without proper revenue sharing we'll have another lockout in 6 years.

The system needs to be properly fixed.

To me revenue sharing is a joke. If a team can't make it in a certain market...time to move on. What I have seen are teams like Nashville prime example the whole time they have been in the league have been one of the main teams to take advantage of revenue sharing by being cheap ass not giving guys what they are worth,never keeping players and so on but all of a sudden they have enough money to sign Weber to some astronomical deal??
"Come on Man!!"

I maybe one of the few that see it this way but...

I feel that it is quite ironic that shortly after the NHL hires some help from the GOP to help save face, they then offer a proposal that on the surface says we caved and this is completely fair, but in the details the league still gets all of there other demands yes ironed down a bit but all still mainly in tact. I believe firmly the NHLPA will respond with a counter offer instead of accepting which in turns makes fans turn against them. Which is exactly what the NHL wants and hired the GOP to help them do. To me this is just a face saving act.

would you rather not have a deal done at all? no matter what you feel this is a good deal for the player. they need to take it.
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#759 Crashnburnluder

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:00 PM

To me revenue sharing is a joke. If a team can't make it in a certain market...time to move on. What I have seen are teams like Nashville prime example the whole time they have been in the league have been one of the main teams to take advantage of revenue sharing by being cheap ass not giving guys what they are worth,never keeping players and so on but all of a sudden they have enough money to sign Weber to some astronomical deal??
"Come on Man!!"

would you rather not have a deal done at all? no matter what you feel this is a good deal for the player. they need to take it.


I'm not saying I want them to decline it and counter, I just have a feeling this is the way it will go. Of course I want the season to start and this was a big stepping stone and maybe from here they can work out all the details. I think that they could reach an agreement very soon I just dont think it will be this exact offer.

Edited by Crashnburnluder, 16 October 2012 - 04:38 PM.


#760 toby91_ca

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:05 PM

I maybe one of the few that see it this way but...

I feel that it is quite ironic that shortly after the NHL hires some help from the GOP to help save face, they then offer a proposal that on the surface says we caved and this is completely fair, but in the details the league still gets all of there other demands yes ironed down a bit but all still mainly in tact. I believe firmly the NHLPA will respond with a counter offer instead of accepting which in turns makes fans turn against them. Which is exactly what the NHL wants and hired the GOP to help them do. To me this is just a face saving act.

There is some truth to this, but any rational person should understand that it would be unreasonable to simply expect the NHLPA to come back and say, yes, we like the deal, where do we sign. The good news I take from it is that the league moved a little, the league doesn't expect an outright acceptance, but they will expect it to move negotiations forward and there should be a counter off I would think...then some back and forth, hopefully a deal in the next week or so. I don't care about PR, I just want to see a deal.





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