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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread


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#761 Nightfall

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:20 PM

There is some truth to this, but any rational person should understand that it would be unreasonable to simply expect the NHLPA to come back and say, yes, we like the deal, where do we sign. The good news I take from it is that the league moved a little, the league doesn't expect an outright acceptance, but they will expect it to move negotiations forward and there should be a counter off I would think...then some back and forth, hopefully a deal in the next week or so. I don't care about PR, I just want to see a deal.

The NHL just got a serious boost to their PR. Reading the twitter and facebook posts have been quite an eye opener. Everyone is saying this is the best proposal yet. The NHLPA, which had the ball in their court after the NHL made a proposal last time, now still has the ball in their court and it looks like they are going to volley it back. The big question is, will it be a friendly volley or an aggressive "game point" volley. I think it is going to be a friendly return, but the NHLPA will ask for 52% or something along those lines.

Edited by Nightfall, 16 October 2012 - 04:21 PM.

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#762 number9

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 05:23 PM

This is how the lockout makes me feel....



This better be the end of it

#763 F.Michael

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:03 PM

Per TSN..... http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=407490

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#764 F.Michael

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:10 PM

Mods please move/merge topic if needed...

Seems like a step in the right direction for both sides; similar to what we've seen in the NFL/NBA.

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#765 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:29 PM

Per Dreger's twitter:

NHLPA conf call has ended. Nothing certain, but a counter proposal is expected in next 24-48 hrs.



#766 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:58 PM

“We made a proposal . . . that is our best shot at preserving an 82-game regular season and playoffs,” said Bettman. “We believe that this was a fair offer for a long-term deal, and it’s one that we hope gets a positive reaction so that we can drop the puck on Nov. 2 — which, backing up, entails at least a one-week training camp. So we have about nine or 10 days to get this all put to bed, signed, sealed and delivered, in order for this offer to be effective and for us to move forward.”


This was, in all honesty, his only shot to save the season. Until now, the rest has been ego.

“It’s not short and there are some explanatory documents we have to wade through. We have to make sure we read it completely and thoroughly, that we understand it,” said Fehr. “I would like to believe that after we’re done with this (review) that it will be an excellent starting point to see if there’s a deal to be made.”


I love Mr. Fehr.

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#767 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:17 PM

This was, in all honesty, his only shot to save the season. Until now, the rest has been ego.



I love Mr. Fehr.


I love how Bettman always says "I don't negotiate publicly" but then goes on to talk about the deal and spin things the owners way. The spin is understandable but no need to keep lying about it first. It's like when someone says "I'm not racist but..." You know what's coming next.

That aside, this is a very smart move by the NHL. They finally made a reasonable offer to negotiate from and included a timetable that would preserve an 82 game season. That way if a deal doesn't happen it's going to look more like the union's fault for costing games.

It's what I was getting at when I said long ago that the league is always bargaining from a position of greater power. It's ultimately their league. The players union could never have done something like this because they can't control the schedules and games like ownership. The league has positioned themselves to look like heroes for saving the season they were taking away.



A little more info about the deal from McKenzie's and Dreger's twitter:

Not only is NHL proposing 5 year limit on player contract length, it's proposing the yearly salary variance can't be more than 5 per cent.
In other words, a multi-year deal with an AAV of $10M would on a year by year basis not go up or down by more than $500K.
That 5 year term limit and the 5 per cent variance restriction are aimed at eliminating back-diving contracts, a primary NHL concern.
NHL's other big systemic concern is curtailing big-money 2nd contracts coming out of entry level. Proposal has 3 mechanisms aimed at that.
1. Entry level would go from 3 to 2 yrs. 2. Salary arb eligibility would go from 4th to 5th yr. 3. UFA goes 7/27 (service/age) to 8/28.
If player comes out of entry level 1 yr earlier, is 1 yr further away from salary arb and UFA, less pressure on teams to give big contract.



#768 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:19 PM

Why did it take Uncle Gary and Uncle Bill-shut so long to do what they did today?
Uncle Gary is the greatest; just ask him.

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#769 Nightfall

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:33 PM

Why did it take Uncle Gary and Uncle Bill-shut so long to do what they did today?
Uncle Gary is the greatest; just ask him.

On the other side of the coin....

Why didn't Uncle Fehr make the first major concession? I guess Uncle Gary cared a little bit more than Fehr. Especially after Fehr was given the last proposal and he chose not to negotiate by saying it wasn't a game of "ping-pong".

With one major move, the league has the attention of the fans, and most importantly, the players.
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#770 frankgrimes

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:06 PM

Yay a start point and a good one at that. I am sure Fehr will offer an untouched UFA; ELC, status and a higher contract cap 5 years is just ridiculous.

Like I always said both sides need to move a little, lets say if the PA is giving back 5 % or more the league has to be flexible in terms of contracts, if both things are happening I am certain we will see hockey in 2013. There is no way they are going to play all 82 games by now.

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#771 kylee

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:06 PM

Why, in general, are players on Twitter saying this deal isn't good enough? What are they specifically unhappy about?

-------

Also, I am not a Gary Bettman fan whatsoever, but he deserves credit if/when a deal gets done. The NHL side has made serious concessions, it's the NHLPA's turn to do it within that 24-48 hour frame so we can get a deal done and hockey going. I know it's not popular, and Bettman probably won't get any credit, but his side surprised me today. I was not expecting a deal like this to at least start what is hopefully the deal to be done.

#772 frankgrimes

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:15 PM

Why, in general, are players on Twitter saying this deal isn't good enough? What are they specifically unhappy about?

-------

Also, I am not a Gary Bettman fan whatsoever, but he deserves credit if/when a deal gets done. The NHL side has made serious concessions, it's the NHLPA's turn to do it within that 24-48 hour frame so we can get a deal done and hockey going. I know it's not popular, and Bettman probably won't get any credit, but his side surprised me today. I was not expecting a deal like this to at least start what is hopefully the deal to be done.


People are making an incredible mistake here:

50/50 = - 7 % for the players

PLUS
ELC up from 3 to 4 years
UFA up from 7 to 8 years
contract lenght capped at 5 years
salary cap down by 10 million

Point 1 - 4 are things the NHL will have to change and it would be utterly stupid for the NHLPA to accept anything, without getting a hold of it first.

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#773 kylee

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:54 PM

I thought I read that the ELC remains at 3 years. But if that's truly all they need to tweak I'm extremely optimistic there will be a new CBA within the time frame to have an 82 game schedule

#774 hillbillywingsfan

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 08:55 PM

People are making an incredible mistake here:

50/50 = - 7 % for the players

PLUS
ELC up from 3 to 4 years
UFA up from 7 to 8 years
contract lenght capped at 5 years
salary cap down by 10 million

Point 1 - 4 are things the NHL will have to change and it would be utterly stupid for the NHLPA to accept anything, without getting a hold of it first.

So let me get this right. You are the only one that doesn't think this is a good step in the right direction? I don't understand what you think the owners should have to give up. should it be more like a 70-30 split for the players or something and then you might be happy? I mean really.

50-50 is fine and fair seeing how bad they both want more than the other
ELC up from 3 to 4 years...why not? works for the nfl just fine.
UFA up from 7 to 8 years..no comment really
contract lenght capped at 5 years..my fav no more awful contract that we all have been complaining about that even our own players on the wings have.
salary cap down by 10 million...why not? keep it from getting out of hand like every other sport in the world.

my other fav is the 5 year contracts can only vary by 500k per year if i read that right. no more bottoms dropping out at the end of contracts

Edited by hillbillywingsfan, 16 October 2012 - 08:56 PM.

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#775 frankgrimes

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:02 PM

So let me get this right. You are the only one that doesn't think this is a good step in the right direction? I don't understand what you think the owners should have to give up. should it be more like a 70-30 split for the players or something and then you might be happy? I mean really.

50-50 is fine and fair seeing how bad they both want more than the other
ELC up from 3 to 4 years...why not? works for the nfl just fine.
UFA up from 7 to 8 years..no comment really
contract lenght capped at 5 years..my fav no more awful contract that we all have been complaining about that even our own players on the wings have.
salary cap down by 10 million...why not? keep it from getting out of hand like every other sport in the world.

my other fav is the 5 year contracts can only vary by 500k per year if i read that right. no more bottoms dropping out at the end of contracts



First off, re-read my posting.

Second it is like Fehr said an excellent *starting point* but some tweaks need to be made.

I always thought even 7 years till UFA is too high, so no way the players should agree to 8.

Also I for gods sake don't care what other leagues are doing. If you have to ask why such a low salary cap is bad I don't know what to tell you...

I want to see superteams so the higher the better


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#776 toby91_ca

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:23 PM

So let me get this right. You are the only one that doesn't think this is a good step in the right direction? I don't understand what you think the owners should have to give up. should it be more like a 70-30 split for the players or something and then you might be happy? I mean really.

50-50 is fine and fair seeing how bad they both want more than the other
ELC up from 3 to 4 years...why not? works for the nfl just fine.
UFA up from 7 to 8 years..no comment really
contract lenght capped at 5 years..my fav no more awful contract that we all have been complaining about that even our own players on the wings have.
salary cap down by 10 million...why not? keep it from getting out of hand like every other sport in the world.

my other fav is the 5 year contracts can only vary by 500k per year if i read that right. no more bottoms dropping out at the end of contracts

50/50 actually represents a 12.3% pay cut for the players

#777 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:25 PM

per Aaron Ward's twitter:

Per player source,clarification is needed on HRR definition in league proposal,appears in new offer player share is lowered.Also 'salary guarantee/protection',to allow to go from 57% to 50%,means players would likely be paid back by themselves,out of their share in the future.Possibility a guy could retire,and players still playing, would be bearing burden to pay him back.

Clarification between NHL and NHLPA will come by phone Wednesday and they will meet in person in Toronto on Thursday.


Some sources were originally reporting it was using the same HRR as the last CBA. If they're opening that can of worms and using a different definition then it's going to be an intense 9 days of negotiations still.

#778 toby91_ca

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 09:54 PM

per Aaron Ward's twitter:



Some sources were originally reporting it was using the same HRR as the last CBA. If they're opening that can of worms and using a different definition then it's going to be an intense 9 days of negotiations still.

I saw that, I really hope they didn't change the definitino of HRR because if they did, that makes their 50/05 offer bogus and we are back where we started.

#779 puckbags

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:45 PM

First off, re-read my posting.

Second it is like Fehr said an excellent *starting point* but some tweaks need to be made.

I always thought even 7 years till UFA is too high, so no way the players should agree to 8.

Also I for gods sake don't care what other leagues are doing. If you have to ask why such a low salary cap is bad I don't know what to tell you...

I want to see superteams so the higher the better


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Of course he said that..that's bargaining 101. He's not going to say " this is the greatest deal ever " because if he says that then if something hits a snag he will have no bargaining power. I think Fehr probably s*** his pants today when they came at them with that but he still has to keep his poker face on.

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#780 chances14

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:56 PM

Yay a start point and a good one at that. I am sure Fehr will offer an untouched UFA; ELC, status and a higher contract cap 5 years is just ridiculous.


why is that ridiculous? the nba has a 5 year max for players signing with their returning teams and 4 year max if they sign with another team during free agency





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