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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread


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#61 ami

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 10:54 PM

I hate what Bettman does to game of hockey, but from business perspective he is doing pertty job and you have to admit, his employers like it. Yes, he is trying to manage expense and keep business at least viable. Union, on the other hand, wants guaranteed paychecks for its members. See the difference?

#62 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 11:32 PM

Protect the rights of players, keep them from getting crewed by owners? B**S**T!!

If their role is so well established, spell it. Give one impiric example of player right violation that can not be spotted and fixed by his agent?

Well, actually, I give one myself. Remember Fehr rejecting realignment despite majority of players and fans liked it...

Got a link to verify Fehr rejecting it in spite of the majority of fans and players liking it?

Because what actually happened is the union wanted more time than the deadline the league put on it and requested more information. When they weren't given that information from the league, the players voted overwhelmingly to veto realignment.

It was a tactic by Bettman to make the union look bad that you apparently bought. He dropped a massive change to the NHL on them, gave them a short deadline to respond, and didn't give them very much info to go on.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=384655

http://www.nhlpa.com...sed-realignment

Really, and why exactly does Ferh keep bringing back subject of revenue share to the table?

Because the biggest problem facing the league is not player salary but the financial disparity between large and small franchises. That's not the same as them losing money. The union's propsal, while far from perfect, actually acknowledges that disparity problem and tries to address it. The league's proposals involve just taking more from the players.

One great example of unions membership protection - unions sueing Boeng for creating 4000 jobs in right-to-work state. For me, f*ck such unions.

Unions shoud've been banned after WWII. And they definetly do not belong in professional sport.

I hate what Bettman does to game of hockey, but from business perspective he is doing pertty job and you have to admit, his employers like it. Yes, he is trying to manage expense and keep business at least viable. Union, on the other hand, wants guaranteed paychecks for its members. See the difference?

The section I bolded has nothing do to with the NHL's and NHLPA's CBA negotiation or the lockout, which is the topic of this thread.

Though it does demonstrate that your opinion is based mostly on your hatred for unions and not what's actually transpiring in this lockout.

#63 Gordie Howe hat trick

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 11:33 PM

Did you guys hear? NHL13 is coming out with a new, "Be the commissioner," mode!

Yeah all you do is smash the disk, and no one gets to play.
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#64 thegerkin

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:11 AM

So much damn greed.

#65 RippedOnNitro

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:11 AM

Some more meaningless words from the NHL:

http://www.nhl.com/i...641584&cmpid=fb


Working around the clock to make a deal...really?!?! :nono:

I just have to say, that's an awesome avatar.


I laughed so hard about that avatar! :lol:

From this point on for every day we are
Locked out of the NHL is a day I will not spend money on the NHL when it returns....

10 days of lock out means I wont purchase jerseys, key chains, tshirts, mouse pads lol anything... If I purchase anything it will be through private sellers selling there own stuff that isn't linked to the NHL at all... (aka people reselling stuff on here, etc.)

I know I'm only one person but if even more people do this... You can see a difference...


I officially cancelled by subscription for my GameCenter package yesterday. If they somehow get a deal without cancelling/postponing any regular season games I am happy to re-subscribe. However if there is only one game cancelled/postponed I will not re-subscribe this season. :bye1:

Good thing I just started watching NFL since last week for the first time of my life (I live in Europe...) and I absolutely love it, so I will get my needed sport fix! :yahoo:
First round series win: $0 () Second round series win: $0 () Third round series win: $0 () Fourth round series win: $0 () Goal difference: $0 (-3) Shutout difference: $0 (0) SHG difference: $0 (0) Extra points reg. season: $3 (102)

TOTAL COLLECTED: $0 TOTAL BONUS IF STANLEY CUP: $3

#66 frankgrimes

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:34 AM

I think Bettman loses his job when this is all said and done. Seriously, how can he show his face in public ever again without the threat of seriously getting hurt? There's no way he can present the Cup without being completely pelted with food, beer, and garbage, and fans trying to take swings when he walks out.

Probably the worst thing to happen to the owners was they put this system together back in 2005, and now they're crying poor. Why are the players locked out because the owners don't know how to run their sport? Fans and media support the players this time, the longer this thing goes, the more pressure it puts on Bettman and the owners. If anyone caves, it's the owners.

Clearly the problem is the lack of proper revenue sharing, the Floor is bankrupting teams, and there's to many teams in horrible markets. Fehr and the players know this and they aren't giving and inch, and I don't think they have to. The players don't have to do anything until the owners address these 3 issues.


At this point there can't be any other option. This guy would risk not only getting boo'ed but like you said people throwing stuff at him and trying to get swings, players might not even want to touch the Stanley Cup because of the midget. These greedy owners can love him my ass this time it is different and there is pressure:

- struggling franchises won't survive an extended lockout meaning *his* expansion teams are going to relocate or fold
- players *do* have options *caugh* KHL *caugh*
- fans and media are siding heavily with the players

The owners might have the big pockets but NHLPA has the power in this case.

Surprisingly I am sure the NHL will shutdown all contact options soon but whatever, I am going to enjoy other leagues if those greedy bastards someday decide to provide a fair offer for both sides we will know anyway thanks to tsn.

Sadly things like MLB or NFL aren't options for me becaus I think both sports are extremely boring, tried to watch a Baseballgame yesterday using StreamTorrent but seriously after over 2,5 hours I just had to turn it off it was like waiting forever for something to happen *lol*

Edited by frankgrimes, 17 September 2012 - 02:36 AM.

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#67 kylee

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:47 AM

Nothing substitutes hockey. Absolutely nothing. I may be American but my national pasttime is not football or baseball. It's hockey. This whole lockout is an absolute joke. Bettman, Daly, and Fehr should all be fired. You knew it was a bad omen when the nhl works out a realignment and Daly comes on the tv and says it's off purely for the nhl to have leverage in bargaining. I don't want to lose a single pre season game, but I can't handle another completely lost season.

#68 Johnz96

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:55 AM

http://www.sportsnet...d_for_business/
Great article by Andrew Zimbalist a renowned economist, doesn't know much about the game but was asked to review the NHL from a business perspective

#69 Johnz96

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:00 AM

At this point there can't be any other option. This guy would risk not only getting boo'ed but like you said people throwing stuff at him and trying to get swings, players might not even want to touch the Stanley Cup because of the midget. These greedy owners can love him my ass this time it is different and there is pressure:

- struggling franchises won't survive an extended lockout meaning *his* expansion teams are going to relocate or fold
- players *do* have options *caugh* KHL *caugh*
- fans and media are siding heavily with the players

The owners might have the big pockets but NHLPA has the power in this case.

Surprisingly I am sure the NHL will shutdown all contact options soon but whatever, I am going to enjoy other leagues if those greedy bastards someday decide to provide a fair offer for both sides we will know anyway thanks to tsn.

Sadly things like MLB or NFL aren't options for me becaus I think both sports are extremely boring, tried to watch a Baseballgame yesterday using StreamTorrent but seriously after over 2,5 hours I just had to turn it off it was like waiting forever for something to happen *lol*

I agree with you about baseball, I like football, I stopped following it years ago because I like to know all the players in the league and only have time to follow 1 sport. Guess I'm gonna check out some Monday Night Football tonight.

#70 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:12 AM



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#71 VM1138

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:25 AM

They can simply return to the NHL whenever they wish, unless they sign for the SEL (Sweden) in which case the league doesn't allow it and any player signing there has to stay for the season.


Thanks for the response, just what I was looking for.

And everyone, keep on topic. Don't devolve into a political debate about unions. I know since this is a political issue relating to hockey, it's hard to walk that line, just keep it focused on the lockout and the NHL.
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#72 Nightfall

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:04 AM

So much damn greed.

This is what it all comes down to.

Most people believe that the silly dwarf and the owners are all at fault. The simple fact of the matter is that neither side came down from their initial positions.

The owners insane offer was one the players took insult to. A rollback of over 10%? Limits on contracts? No arbitration? What an insult. Plus, as talks went on, they came down maybe a couple percent, but they didn't budge off the core points.

I know some people give the owners flack for dumbass expensive signings, but the simple fact of the matter is that you have 20 owners who want to compete for a cup so the contracts need some kind of limit on them. Loopholes do need to be closed.

Make no mistake, the players and rich franchises benefited from the current CBA. The players came down from 57% to 53%, but only fir the first year. It then went up to 55% in year 2, and then back up to 57% by year 3 with a player option the next year at the same rate. So, a temporary rollback, which is all fine and dandy, but no concessions aside from that?

The greed that both sides exhibited in this negotiation was surprising. $3.3 billion in revenues and you can't split the pie evenly? No deal to be had at all? Seriously?

I love the Wings. I love hockey. What I don't love is the greed. I am done spending money on the NHL. No more tickets. No more merchandise. Let both sides starve out. I will watch them on TV, but that is the extent of my involvement with the NHL. Oh, no more Center Ice Package. I am not giving these greedy pigs anymore money.

Speak with your wallets people!

My prediction: We are in for a long lockout, maybe another full season. Fehr is going to pull the salary cap off the table. That isn't a bad thing in the long run mind you. It works for baseball, and I would be all for it. If the owners are indeed stuck on their proposal, it is going to be a long fought battle. Keep in mind that while Bettman locked out the players for a full season, Fehr sacrificed a world series to get the deal he wanted. Oh, and I agree with Adam Proteau on his tweet....

The phrase we heard from NHL owners in 04-05 was "cost certainty". Now they want profit certainty. That's not business, that's entitlement.

Get ready for a long lockout everyone!

Edited by Nightfall, 17 September 2012 - 09:27 AM.

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#73 RedWingsDad

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:00 AM

I think Bettman loses his job when this is all said and done. Seriously, how can he show his face in public ever again without the threat of seriously getting hurt? There's no way he can present the Cup without being completely pelted with food, beer, and garbage, and fans trying to take swings when he walks out.

Probably the worst thing to happen to the owners was they put this system together back in 2005, and now they're crying poor. Why are the players locked out because the owners don't know how to run their sport? Fans and media support the players this time, the longer this thing goes, the more pressure it puts on Bettman and the owners. If anyone caves, it's the owners.

Clearly the problem is the lack of proper revenue sharing, the Floor is bankrupting teams, and there's to many teams in horrible markets. Fehr and the players know this and they aren't giving and inch, and I don't think they have to. The players don't have to do anything until the owners address these 3 issues.


What? If the problem is too many teams in horrible markets, then the solution is to eliminate those teams entirely or move them to a better market. In that context, your statement about revenue sharing makes no sense as revenue sharing will *never* fix teams in bad markets or solve the problem of owners who can't run a successful business.

Revenue sharing (corporate socialism) is foolishness from a business perspective - it will never fix underlying problems. Also, the NHLPA proposal to increase revenue sharing was inflammatory to the successful (read: has owners who know how to run a business) franchises in the NHL.

On a side note, all of these raging posts blindly attacking the owners for their "greed" are just silly. Stop with the class envy and jealousy and come to grips with the fact that the NHL is a business, run by businessman... to make money. That does not make them greedy, any more than you wanting more money (prosperity) makes you greedy. It is fallacious to suggest that because they make more than you, they are somehow greedy in their efforts to run a successful business and make money, whereas you are not in your own similar pursuits. Who are you to say how much money is enough, and then label someone greedy for making more?

In summation: get this class envy nonsense out of here - not only is it ignorant, hypocritical, and laden with jealousy, but it's also unproductive to the discussion.
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#74 Johnz96

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:02 AM

This is what it all comes down to.

Most people believe that the silly dwarf and the owners are all at fault. The simple fact of the matter is that neither side came down from their initial positions.

The owners insane offer was one the players took insult to. A rollback of over 10%? Limits on contracts? No arbitration? What an insult. Plus, as talks went on, they came down maybe a couple percent, but they didn't budge off the core points.

I know some people give the owners flack for dumbass expensive signings, but the simple fact of the matter is that you have 20 owners who want to compete for a cup so the contracts need some kind of limit on them. Loopholes do need to be closed.

Make no mistake, the players and rich franchises benefited from the current CBA. The players came down from 57% to 53%, but only fir the first year. It then went up to 55% in year 2, and then back up to 57% by year 3 with a player option the next year at the same rate. So, a temporary rollback, which is all fine and dandy, but no concessions aside from that?

The greed that both sides exhibited in this negotiation was surprising. $3.3 billion in revenues and you can't split the pie evenly? No deal to be had at all? Seriously?

I love the Wings. I love hockey. What I don't love is the greed. I am done spending money on the NHL. No more tickets. No more merchandise. Let both sides starve out. I will watch them on TV, but that is the extent of my involvement with the NHL. Oh, no more Center Ice Package. I am not giving these greedy pigs anymore money.

Speak with your wallets people!

My prediction: We are in for a long lockout, maybe another full season. Fehr is going to pull the salary cap off the table. That isn't a bad thing in the long run mind you. It works for baseball, and I would be all for it. If the owners are indeed stuck on their proposal, it is going to be a long fought battle. Keep in mind that while Bettman locked out the players for a full season, Fehr sacrificed a world series to get the deal he wanted. Oh, and I agree with Adam Proteau on his tweet....

The phrase we heard from NHL owners in 04-05 was "cost certainty". Now they want profit certainty. That's not business, that's entitlement.

Get ready for a long lockout everyone!


The CBA has expired 3 times during Bettman's regime and he has locked us out every time. The NHL has never been locked out before Bettman. He uses it as a negotiating tactic. He is responsible for the financial situation they are in requiring this negotiating tactic.
http://www.sportsnet...d_for_business/
He is the worst thing to ever happen to the game of hockey

What? If the problem is too many teams in horrible markets, then the solution is to eliminate those teams entirely or move them to a better market. In that context, your statement about revenue sharing makes no sense as revenue sharing will *never* fix teams in bad markets or solve the problem of owners who can't run a successful business.

Revenue sharing (corporate socialism) is foolishness from a business perspective - it will never fix underlying problems. Also, the NHLPA proposal to increase revenue sharing was inflammatory to the successful (read: has owners who know how to run a business) franchises in the NHL.

On a side note, all of these raging posts blindly attacking the owners for their "greed" are just silly. Stop with the class envy and jealousy and come to grips with the fact that the NHL is a business, run by businessman... to make money. That does not make them greedy, any more than you wanting more money (prosperity) makes you greedy. It is fallacious to suggest that because they make more than you, they are somehow greedy in their efforts to run a successful business and make money, whereas you are not in your own similar pursuits. Who are you to say how much money is enough, and then label someone greedy for making more?

In summation: get this class envy nonsense out of here - not only is it ignorant, hypocritical, and laden with jealousy, but it's also unproductive to the discussion.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/09/13/nhl_lockout_cba_betmann_bad_for_business/

#75 Jedi

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:16 AM

*ahem*.

While I understand this issue makes it very easy to slip into the "unions vs. employers" debate, please remember that this is a hockey forum, and not a political forum. As such, posts about unions that are not hockey related are considered political discussion, which is not what LetsGoWings was established for.

Please keep this discussion on track. Further posts that are deemed by the Mod staff to be political will be deleted, and suspensions could be issued.

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#76 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:36 AM

@dchesnokov: Teemu Selanne's latest blog post titled "What's wrong, Gary Bettman?" via @MaStrozyk http://t.co/b8qFVl9K

...anybody know Finnish?

Edit: Looks like there's a translation over on hfboards.

Edited by BottleOfSmoke, 17 September 2012 - 01:00 PM.

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#77 Nightfall

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:54 AM

The CBA has expired 3 times during Bettman's regime and he has locked us out every time. The NHL has never been locked out before Bettman. He uses it as a negotiating tactic. He is responsible for the financial situation they are in requiring this negotiating tactic.
http://www.sportsnet...d_for_business/
He is the worst thing to ever happen to the game of hockey

Locked "us" out? Are you a player?

He is responsible for the financial situation? He is responsible for the lockout?

You do realize that the owners all voted to lock out the players. It was unanimous. Sounds to me that the owners are responsible for the financial situation since they are the ones signing these contracts that their franchises can't pay. Sounds to me that the owners are responsible for the lockout.

So, in short, if you want someone to blame, don't blame the mouthpiece. Blame the owners.

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I agree with this.

----

Forget blaming Bettman and forget blaming the players.
Blame their poisonous relationship. There’s too much messy history here, dating all the way back to Eagleson, and there’s precious little goodwill.

----

I just can't stop blaming both sides.
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#78 Johnz96

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:10 PM

Locked "us" out? Are you a player?

He is responsible for the financial situation? He is responsible for the lockout?

You do realize that the owners all voted to lock out the players. It was unanimous. Sounds to me that the owners are responsible for the financial situation since they are the ones signing these contracts that their franchises can't pay. Sounds to me that the owners are responsible for the lockout.

So, in short, if you want someone to blame, don't blame the mouthpiece. Blame the owners.

http://www.thestar.c...es-of-nasty-cox

I agree with this.

----

Forget blaming Bettman and forget blaming the players.
Blame their poisonous relationship. There’s too much messy history here, dating all the way back to Eagleson, and there’s precious little goodwill.

----

I just can't stop blaming both sides.

Fans get locked out too

#79 LadyInRed

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:10 PM

f*** me.

Go Lions

#80 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:14 PM

I hate what Bettman does to game of hockey, but from business perspective he is doing pertty job and you have to admit, his employers like it. Yes, he is trying to manage expense and keep business at least viable. Union, on the other hand, wants guaranteed paychecks for its members. See the difference?


Players want guaranteed paychecks. Owners want guaranteed profits. I do not see a difference here. Both sides want more money.

From my point of view as a fan I do not care which side makes more money as long as I can watch hockey and pay least possible amount of my money for it. Emotionally I am more inclined to support the players. They are the ones I am watching play the game of hockey.





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