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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread


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#881 toby91_ca

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:31 PM

Didn't the PA's last proposal start at 54 or 55% and get to 52%? Backes suggested the new proposals made a great step to getting a deal done, how can they be nowhere near 50/50? Maybe it's just Bettman talking his own language the same way he was when he said no rollbacks in the NHL's proposal.

The best I can hope for now is that Bettman is just speaking that way to negotiate a better deal, but it looks bad, very bad. I fully expected Bettman to come and say the NHLPA didn't come far enough, the proposals are overly encouraging.......then this would lead to some hard negotiations over the next several days, but based on what he said today, I don't see how that happens and I'm extremely pissed off about it. I focused too much time today and keeping up to date on this.....for what?

#882 Nightfall

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:45 PM

This is a joke right? The owners make some compromises on their proposal and the players won't even approach the 50/50 number on 3 separate proposals?

Bettman: I offer 50/50
Fehr: I offer 57/43
Bettman: Wait, didn't you offer us that in your initial proposal?
Fehr: Yes, but we are bargaining here. I have a couple other proposals.
Bettman: Ah, good. What are they?
Fehr: Proposal #2 is 57/43
Bettman: Wait, what is the difference?
Fehr: Well, this one is actually 57.5% because I felt like being a prick since you were a prick to us in your first proposal.
Bettman: Fair enough, what about your last proposal?
Fehr: Proposal #3 is 56.5/43.5
Bettman: A half of a percent difference?
Fehr: Well, since you came up from your earlier demands, we thought we would come down a bit.
Bettman: Wow. Is that all?
Fehr: Yea, see ya.
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#883 chances14

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:45 PM

@Real_ESPNLeBrun: NHL team exec on NHL/NHLPA: "They are both posturing."

#884 Nightfall

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:47 PM

Didn't the PA's last proposal start at 54 or 55% and get to 52%? Backes suggested the new proposals made a great step to getting a deal done, how can they be nowhere near 50/50? Maybe it's just Bettman talking his own language the same way he was when he said no rollbacks in the NHL's proposal.

The best I can hope for now is that Bettman is just speaking that way to negotiate a better deal, but it looks bad, very bad. I fully expected Bettman to come and say the NHLPA didn't come far enough, the proposals are overly encouraging.......then this would lead to some hard negotiations over the next several days, but based on what he said today, I don't see how that happens and I'm extremely pissed off about it. I focused too much time today and keeping up to date on this.....for what?

Its going to be interesting to see what these proposals were. Right now, I don't believe either of these blowhards. Let the PR spin commence.

@Real_ESPNLeBrun: NHL team exec on NHL/NHLPA: "They are both posturing."

So what the hell does that mean? The proposals weren't bad but they are going to discuss them?

I have to take what I have heard at face value so far, and the word isn't too encouraging.
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#885 Jedi

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:49 PM

Its going to be interesting to see what these proposals were. Right now, I don't believe either of these blowhards. Let the PR spin commence.


So what the hell does that mean? The proposals weren't bad but they are going to discuss them?

I have to take what I have heard at face value so far, and the word isn't too encouraging.

You say you don't believe either blowhard, yet the post before this sounds like you've pretty much made up your mind as to who you believe...

Dreger thinks that the next block of game cancellations will hit tomorrow. He's probably right, unfortunately...

Don't be surprised if the NHL responds to todays meeting by announcing the cancellation of a big chunk of games...tomorrow.


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#886 sleepwalker

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:57 PM

You say you don't believe either blowhard, yet the post before this sounds like you've pretty much made up your mind as to who you believe...


Haha, no s***. That post was completely laughable. Luntz is doing a great job obviously!

#887 Nightfall

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:01 PM

https://twitter.com/...035091899133953

No concessions from the NHLPA at all? Seriously?

I can't wait to see these proposals.

You say you don't believe either blowhard, yet the post before this sounds like you've pretty much made up your mind as to who you believe...

Dreger thinks that the next block of game cancellations will hit tomorrow. He's probably right, unfortunately...

As of right now, I don't know what to believe. If they are posturing, then they aren't worth listening to.

The proof will be in the proposals. I hope the NHLPA posts them.
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#888 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:03 PM

Bettman: I offer 50/50
Fehr: I offer 57/43
Bettman: Wait, didn't you offer us that in your initial proposal?
Fehr: Yes, but we are bargaining here. I have a couple other proposals.
Bettman: Ah, good. What are they?
Fehr: Proposal #2 is 57/43
Bettman: Wait, what is the difference?
Fehr: Well, this one is actually 57.5% because I felt like being a prick since you were a prick to us in your first proposal.
Bettman: Fair enough, what about your last proposal?
Fehr: Proposal #3 is 56.5/43.5
Bettman: A half of a percent difference?
Fehr: Well, since you came up from your earlier demands, we thought we would come down a bit.
Bettman: Wow. Is that all?
Fehr: Yea, see ya.

This post is very telling.

It would've saved me a lot of time and energy if earlier in the thread you included these imaginary conversations that you get so pissed about.

#889 Jedi

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:03 PM

Lebrun has some early details. Several tweets in this post, so I only linked to his timeline...

League view of 3 NHLPA proposals presented today is that none of them guarantee to get to 50/50 over time ... Now let's get Fehr version.

Fehr insists that depending on revenue growth, NHLPA's first proposal does go down to 50 percent eventually

Fehr says #2 proposal gets owners down to 50 percent with "only five percent growth"

Fehr on #3 proposal - players to go 50/50 as long as owners promise to honor all contracts that were signed by players

Fehr says NHL rejected all 3 NHLPA proposals. Says NHL only willing to work off its Tuesday offer


I find the bolded VERY telling. Bash the players for the "they don't see any reason to take less in terms of dollars" tweet all you want, but the Owners VERY clearly don't want to honor the existing contracts as is. If I were Fehr, I would have looked directly at Craig Leipold when I made that presentation.

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#890 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:05 PM

https://twitter.com/...035091899133953

No concessions from the NHLPA at all? Seriously?

I can't wait to see these proposals.


As of right now, I don't know what to believe. If they are posturing, then they aren't worth listening to.

The proof will be in the proposals. I hope the NHLPA posts them.

That link you cited doesn't say the players made no concessions.

#891 Nightfall

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:16 PM

That link you cited doesn't say the players made no concessions.

You are right, it was Fehr saying that he sees no reason to concede anything.

However, that obviously was not what was proposed.

I want to be the first to post that I stand corrected. Based on what the NHLPA is saying, I am questioning why Gary was that upset. Yes, these are counter offers, but the gap is not that wide anymore. Why would he say that they are extremely disappointed?

I guess we will have to wait and see what the proposals look like when they are put on the internet.

I find the bolded VERY telling. Bash the players for the "they don't see any reason to take less in terms of dollars" tweet all you want, but the Owners VERY clearly don't want to honor the existing contracts as is. If I were Fehr, I would have looked directly at Craig Leipold when I made that presentation.

I believe with the PR blitz, the players union is back in the drivers seat again. I know when I see that 50/50 proposal, with players getting to keep everything that they signed contracts for, I see that as a slam dunk agreement. The players should be paid on the contracts that they signed.
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#892 Jedi

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:16 PM

Fehr brings up an excellent point, from Nick Cotsonika...

Fehr: "If that's their best offer, why in the world did we see it four weeks into a lockout?"


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#893 Nightfall

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:19 PM

This post is very telling.

It would've saved me a lot of time and energy if earlier in the thread you included these imaginary conversations that you get so pissed about.

That was meant to be satire. Obviously being so close to the NHLPA, it upset you. I apologize. Oh, but if I would have posted a mock conversation slamming Bettman, you would have jumped on that bus rather quickly.

Fehr brings up an excellent point, from Nick Cotsonika...

We have yet to see either side's "Best Offer" yet. I believe everyone knew that these offers were going to be rejected. I knew the last NHL offer sheet was lipstick on a pig and it would be rejected. I just hoped that both sides would meet for longer than an hour and not say it was a waste of time.
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#894 Nightfall

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:24 PM

Hrm, seems that a 50/50 split is only guaranteed with a certain amount of revenue growth.

I am going to wait patiently to read the proposals before I pass further judgement.
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#895 Pskov Wings Fan

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:25 PM

So NHLPA read the "Made Whole" clause from NHL proposal and found that it does not make existing contracts whole in any way.

#896 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:51 PM

That was meant to be satire. Obviously being so close to the NHLPA, it upset you. I apologize. Oh, but if I would have posted a mock conversation slamming Bettman, you would have jumped on that bus rather quickly.

More imaginary conclusions.

It was satire to ridicule Fehr's position before you even had any idea what it actually was.

#897 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 04:57 PM

Fehr brings up an excellent point, from Nick Cotsonika...

It's a good point and good PR, but the answer is pretty simple.

The owners wanted to get a sense of exactly how much they could take first. The first proposal was pretty much an F You. It seems like they miscalculated the strength of the union or the fan reaction to the lockout or both.

#898 Nightfall

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 05:01 PM

More imaginary conclusions.

It was satire to ridicule Fehr's position before you even had any idea what it actually was.

You are right, you would have chuckled at your desk and not posted anything.

Satire is satire. Either laugh or move along. Don't need to try to imply I was serious and belittle me.
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#899 F.Michael

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 05:06 PM

Lebrun has some early details. Several tweets in this post, so I only linked to his timeline...



I find the bolded VERY telling. Bash the players for the "they don't see any reason to take less in terms of dollars" tweet all you want, but the Owners VERY clearly don't want to honor the existing contracts as is. If I were Fehr, I would have looked directly at Craig Leipold when I made that presentation.

Then glance over at Flyers GM Paul Holmgren for the offer made to Weber in which Nashville (not exactly a 'cash cow' franchise) was forced to match.

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#900 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 05:09 PM

Then glance over at Flyers GM Paul Holmgren for the offer made to Weber in which Nashville (not exactly a 'cash cow' franchise) was forced to match.

And Leipold for matching it.

The players will inevitably have to come down on percentage for the simple reason that the owners will withhold hockey until they do. But I can understand them being pissed that the same people who gave out these huge contracts a couple months ago are now sitting across the table from them crying poor and saying they need to reduce player salaries and not honor those contracts.





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