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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread


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#1101 up2here

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:12 PM

Honestly the more I read on this the more skeptical I get. If more than half the league is losing money, including good markets like Minnesota and Buffalo, then whats their motivation for playing? Theyre making more money not to play.

I guess I should stop reading. I should be watching Pavs deke defensemen out of their jocks and talking about the scoring leaders or how much of a crybaby Crosby is. Instead i'm digging into the finances of teams bleeding red ink. I stopped caring whose fault this all is a long time ago, soon I'm going to stop caring all together.

#1102 number9

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:26 PM

Tim Panaccio @tpanotchCSN:

Asked someone of prominence who's been active in staging several Winter Classics about the % of Michigan WC happening. "Zero" he said.


#upsetting

#1103 Jedi

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 02:47 PM

Looks like the League will pull their most recent offer off the table as of today.

The NHL will withdraw its latest proposal to the NHL Players' Association once Thursday's deadline to have a new deal in place comes and goes.

There were no talks held again Thursday and none have been held since last week's NHL proposal and counter-proposals from the NHLPA.


Read the story for reactions from both Daly and Fehr regarding this...

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#1104 drwscc

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:05 PM

Good use of PR by Fehr again.

NHLPA "We demand to negotiate off of one of our proposals, and we'll talk"
NHL "No, let's work off of our plan"
NHLPA "The league refuses to negotiate with us.
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#1105 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:12 PM

Good use of PR by Fehr again.

NHLPA "We demand to negotiate off of one of our proposals, and we'll talk"
NHL "No, let's work off of our plan"
NHLPA "The league refuses to negotiate with us.

Do you have a source where the NHLPA demanded that the league negotiated off one of their proposals?

Because it sounds like you have it backwards.

Since rejecting the union's trio of offers in Toronto last Thursday, the league has maintained that they will not meet unless the NHLPA agrees to work off their last proposal, which included a 50/50 revenue split and a provision to "make whole" existing player contracts by using deferred payments.

Earlier this week, the union's attempt to re-ignite negotiations -- the NHLPA requested a meeting with the league without preconditions Tuesday night -- was spurned.



#1106 sleepwalker

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:54 PM

Looks like the League will pull their most recent offer off the table as of today.



Read the story for reactions from both Daly and Fehr regarding this...


It always amazes me reading some of the comments people leave to articles like this.

One of the comments I read on that article by some GM slappy, was saying that Bettman should just bring in a bunch of scab players to play the season, since it won't matter anyway since all the fans support the team, not the actual players on the team. Uh...yeah.

#1107 chances14

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 05:31 PM

Good article by James mirtle talking about money difference between players and owners proposals. Lot closer than we might think

http://www.theglobea...article4634609/


#1108 Euro_Twins

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 06:21 PM

Good article by James mirtle talking about money difference between players and owners proposals. Lot closer than we might think

http://www.theglobea...article4634609/


It is a lot closer than what bettman is claiming it to be. The problem is Bettman wants to "win" this war to prove he is better than Fehr, Which is why he refuses to meet without preconditions, and why it's his offer or nothing. If Bettman's offer is the one they use, he looks great to the owners and to the fans. If Fehr wins the war he looks great to the players and fans, and Bettman possibly (hopefully) gets canned. It's all just a PR battle, it wouldn't matter if they were $50 apart or $600 million

#1109 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 07:19 PM

Uncle Gary used to say that he doesn't negotiate in the media.
Now, Uncle Gary says he doesn't negotiate.

"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

- Harry James Benson, CBE.


#1110 frankgrimes

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:47 PM

It is a lot closer than what bettman is claiming it to be. The problem is Bettman wants to "win" this war to prove he is better than Fehr, Which is why he refuses to meet without preconditions, and why it's his offer or nothing. If Bettman's offer is the one they use, he looks great to the owners and to the fans. If Fehr wins the war he looks great to the players and fans, and Bettman possibly (hopefully) gets canned. It's all just a PR battle, it wouldn't matter if they were $50 apart or $600 million


Good summary if both would put their egos aside things would be easier. Everyone is talking about the damn split but the real problem is tied to the other things.

Biut whatever there are other leagues to watch.

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#1111 thegerkin

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 04:58 AM

It's just a pissing contest. Two little schoolboys not backing down, They will decide who pisses when and where they can piss. - sorry, I'm just pissed :)

#1112 55fan

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 05:23 AM

It is a lot closer than what bettman is claiming it to be. The problem is Bettman wants to "win" this war to prove he is better than Fehr, Which is why he refuses to meet without preconditions, and why it's his offer or nothing. If Bettman's offer is the one they use, he looks great to the owners and to the fans. If Fehr wins the war he looks great to the players and fans, and Bettman possibly (hopefully) gets canned. It's all just a PR battle, it wouldn't matter if they were $50 apart or $600 million


Good summary. Both are posturing for the end of the next CBA. They're both letting each other know that they are going to win from now on no matter what so that whichever one blinks first on this one will be considered the "weak" one for the next go-round.

Let's hope that the next CBA gets signed through 2199. I should be good and dead by then.

#1113 Jedi

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 07:54 AM

Harrison Mooney with Puck Daddy posted a good summary of the NHL pulling the offer off the table, and provides a little insight into just how PR-oriented the NHL's offer was. I'd recommend giving it a read.

Some highlights...

I would imagine that, even before Daly assured the players he wasn't threatening them, they weren't all that threatened. The proposal that's come off the table? They sort of rejected it last week. This is a little like parents removing the vegetables from the dinner table because their child refuses to eat them.



Of course, like the offer itself, this dramatic withdrawal isn't so much about what the players think. It's about what we think, and it has been since it hit NHL.com last week. I would argue that the proposal wasn't designed to save the 82-game season so much as it was designed to look like it was designed that way, thereby making the players seem like a bunch of jerks when they looked it over and came to the reasonable conclusion that it wasn't for them.

We can mourn the loss of the 82-game season, but keep in mind that we already did that back at the beginning of October when the NHL canceled the first block of games. More than anything, the last two weeks have really been about re-staging that mourning in a way that redirects our anger at the players.


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#1114 drwscc

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:38 AM

That is pretty apropros. The vegetables are something the children need to stay healthy. But hey, hope the players continue to enjoy their scurvy. Some day, candy coated vegetables will come to them if they just keep refusing to eat them, right?
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#1115 NeverForgetMac25

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 08:44 AM

I've just flat-out had it. I fear for the future of North American sports as lockouts have become the norm upon the expiration of any given CBA. As much as it pains me to admit, I don't see negotiations and deals getting done anytime before the last minute or later going forward in any of the big 4.

Great job NA sports....way to piss on the fans who actually make all of you your money!
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#1116 Nightfall

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 09:43 AM

A great article on why firing Bettman or Fehr would solve nothing.

http://sports.yahoo...._medium=twitter

So let's say it happens today. Right now. As you're reading this. Bettman: Fired. Fehr: Fired.
Then what?
Does the NHLPA just go out and get a guy who won't carry the water in a way they see fit, and instead bows to whatever terrible offer Bettman shoves across the table of some highrise boardroom? Do the owners go out and get a guy who's going to listen more carefully to NHLPA offers and consider them with all due weight and respect, and prosecute this war on players' rights with more leniency? If you think the answer to either question is, "Yes," then please contact your local law enforcement agency, as you are probably a danger to yourself and others.
The tough-guy posturing would continue regardless. Whoever replaced Bettman or Fehr would have the same bosses — whether there are 29 or 700-something of them — and would probably not be allowed to drastically alter their courses of action. Again, unless one side gets desperate (that would be the players, and them only) neither one seems likely to blink any time soon, and even if they did, they'd dance with who brought them.


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#1117 Euro_Twins

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:09 AM

A great article on why firing Bettman or Fehr would solve nothing.

http://sports.yahoo...._medium=twitter


The only reason Bettman has so much power is because he gave himself it. He chose who to put on the board, and created the rule of needing 23 owners to overturn him, after he gathered up his group of 8 owners that will always do what he says they should. They are like a gang of schoolyard bullies, one guy bullying them while the rest of the group cheers him on behind him.

#1118 Nightfall

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:21 AM

The only reason Bettman has so much power is because he gave himself it. He chose who to put on the board, and created the rule of needing 23 owners to overturn him, after he gathered up his group of 8 owners that will always do what he says they should. They are like a gang of schoolyard bullies, one guy bullying them while the rest of the group cheers him on behind him.

Point is that if Bettman was fired, then the next guy would be doing the same thing.
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#1119 rrasco

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:41 AM

Just waiting for the announcement about more cancelled games....

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#1120 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 11:55 AM

Point is that if Bettman was fired, then the next guy would be doing the same thing.

Many people have made this unprovable claim, but really how could anyone possibly do worse? The NHL by far leads the 4 major pro sports in games lost and that's all occurred under Bettman's reign.

He's not just a patsy for the owners. He's supposed to be the steward of the league.

I'd like to think they could find someone who of course would still have the interests of the owners in mind, but be able to use other strategies in negotiations than just the lockout. Instead of seeing the realignment as an opportunity for the league to involve players and establish some good will headed into the CBA negotiations, Bettman used it as a show of force and PR stunt to try and make the union look bad. Then followed it up with a first proposal that was essentially "F You!"





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