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uk_redwing

[Retired] Official Lockout Thread

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yeah, that built in failsafe for the NHLPA is unrealistic. I don't know if that's in there so they have something else to negotiate off of or what, but it's ridiculous if they think they'd ever get that at this stage of the game.

They also need to make the CBA for a longer term than 5 years so we get more seasons of hockey in before Bettman locks them out again.

According to Lebrun's article on ESPN, the league wants 6 or 7 years on the deal. The NHLPA only wants five. So if your reasoning holds true, the players are apparently looking forward to another showdown with the owners more than the owners are.

http://espn.go.com/b...r-what-it-means

Edited by kipwinger

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According to Lebrun's article on ESPN, the league wants 6 or 7 years on the deal. The NHLPA only wants five. So if your reasoning holds true, the players are apparently looking forward to another showdown with the owners more than the owners are.

http://espn.go.com/b...r-what-it-means

Honestly I don't know what their thinking is on the term. The players may feel that if the economics of this deal end up really screwing them they can get out of it sooner, but that's based on the likely bad assumption that the next CBA negotiation would go any better for them.

Either way, if this deal is only 5 to 7 years I'm afraid were just going to do this all over again then.

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Honestly I don't know what their thinking is on the term. The players may feel that if the economics of this deal end up really screwing them they can get out of it sooner, but that's based on the likely bad assumption that the next CBA negotiation would go any better for them.

Either way, if this deal is only 5 to 7 years I'm afraid were just going to do this all over again then.

Definitely a possibility the longer this thing goes. If either side feels like they were forced to accept a deal they didn't like, just to get back to work, then the threat is there for next time. All the more reason why each side needs to eventually make concessions without all these little caveats this time around. Real concessions are hard to swallow, but leave you in a better position to negotiate a little easier the next time around.

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Guest Johnz96

Bettman manages the league in a manner that can be most accurately described as Machiavellian.

The goalie equipment is much bigger now than before Bettman became commisiioner. He allowed all the equipment to get bigger and bigger. He allowed so much obstruction before the last lockout rendering hockey almost unwatchable. He has done it to restrict talent and skill for the sake of parity to give weaker teams a better chance of winning. When fans and media were complaining about the lack of scoring, bigger goalie equipment and obstruction, he would start a crackdown on obstruction at the beginning of seasons only to give it up a few weeks later making it look like he was addressing the problem while actually never wanting to in the first place. He shrunk the goalie pads twice before seasons (making it look like he was addressing the problem) but they are still slightly bigger than when he became the commissioner(he allowed them to grow in the first place and people say he has nothing to do with such decisions, you obviously don't knw Bettman, he is a control freak and it was never allowed before he became commissioner and it went along with his goal of parity. Coincidence? I think not especially considering how duplicitously he handled addressing the situation) but it is the chest protector, shoulder pads jerseys, gloves... that are much so bigger even the helmets are designed to flare out to cover more net.

The goalie equipment is made so much bigger not to protect the goalie but the net.

Bettman drastically changed the game (restricting talent and skill) to help this new expansion teams in bad hockey markets become more successful. Major offensive records will never be broken. He has implemented all kinds of stupid rules (like the trapezoid rule stating goalies beat everyone to the puck when it's dumped and they just shoot it out of their zone, if their equipment was as small as it was before Bettman, there would be no need) to look like they are trying to increase the scoring when actually he really doesn't want to. Hockey is less exciting than it would be if it were less defensive (and it would be if there was more net to shoot at) and those teams aren't fairing any better, that's why they are reneging on contracts to help subsidize these franchises.

There should be an asterisk on statistics for players that played while Bettman was commissioner. He has caused them to miss so many games with lockouts and restricted talent, skill and scoring for the sake of parity as well as having locked us out 3 times, that most of them don't have a chance of being all-time scoring leaders had that played most of their careers while Bettman was commissioner.

Boycott spending money on the NHL until they have no choice but to fire Bettman, he is the worst thing to ever happen to the game of hockey

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Guest Kronstantinov

It is painfully obvious who is responsible for all the lockouts, (I think the main reason anyone can blame someone else is because they are envious that they are not the best in the world at something that is very lucrative (when you are the best at anything it is usually very lucrative and are blinded by their own envy). Only a handful of around 700 current players were even around the first time (which would have ended up in a lost season without a Champion engraved on the Cup if it was up to Bettman which it was the last time and this time), Fehr wasn't here the previous times and neither were some of the owners. We heard all the same arguments from some people about Goodenow being at fault, well he certainly isn't this time.

During Bettman's reign as commissioner of the NHL, the NHL has lost a lot more games than any other league (not even including the current lockout) due to work stoppages. Surely NHL athletes aren't so different from athletes in other leagues.

How can anybody possibly blame anybody else???

Edited by Kronstantinov

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It is obvious who is responsible for all the lockouts. Only a handful of around 700 current players were even around the first time (which would have ended up in a lost season without a Champion engraved on the Cup if it was up to Bettman which it was the last time and this time), Fehr wasn't here the previous times and neither were some of the owners.

How can anybody blame anybody else???

because both sides have not negotiated in good faith during this process.

off the top of my head

players refused to negotiate in january when the owners wanted to and then they dragged their feet on putting forth proposals after their original offer in august. plus, you have don fehr showing up hours late to cba meetings and witholding/misleading information from the players regarding nhl proposals

on the owners side they put forth an insulting lowball offer to start these negotiations with no concessions from the owners. They have at several times throughout this process refused to meet without preconditions. The nhl complained that the pa wasn't coming up with a proposal but when the pa finally did come up with a proposal, the nhl only took 10 minutes to reject all of them.

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Guest Kronstantinov

because both sides have not negotiated in good faith during this process.

off the top of my head

players refused to negotiate in january when the owners wanted to and then they dragged their feet on putting forth proposals after their original offer in august. plus, you have don fehr showing up hours late to cba meetings and witholding/misleading information from the players regarding nhl proposals

on the owners side they put forth an insulting lowball offer to start these negotiations with no concessions from the owners. They have at several times throughout this process refused to meet without preconditions. The nhl complained that the pa wasn't coming up with a proposal but when the pa finally did come up with a proposal, the nhl only took 10 minutes to reject all of them.

If it wasn't for Bettman and his overzelous and unrealistic plan of expansion and growing the league and refusing to admit when he is wrong to proceed to solve problems, there wouldn't be a need for a lockout.

If he didn't use the lockout (depriving the league's source of revenues it's product) as a negotiating tactic to trying force the players to submit to his demands, we wouldn't have lockouts every time the CBA expired.

If Bettman was willing to compromise at all, progress at negotiations could be made. If it was up Bettman 2004-05 would heve been another entire season lost, this time it is and that's why I doubt that we will have a season this year unless something drastic happens about Bettman's power over the NHL.

If the fans return once again in full force when he unlocks the door, there will be another one after the new CBA expires, I know it sounds ridiculous and it did to most after I told them in 05

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From Sportsnet:

Corporate frustration with lost revenues due to the NHL lockout first bubbled to the surface earlier this month.

"There will be some redress for us as a result of this. I can't quantify that and I don't know because I don't know the scale of how long the lockout is going to last," Molson Coors chief executive Peter Swinburn told The Canadian Press.

But on Monday we discovered that the first major sponsor of the 2012-13 NHL season had diverted its marketing dollars elsewhere.

A longtime top-six partner of the NHL and NHLPA, Kraft Canada cancelled its popular Hockeyville program.

And although Hockeyville will repopulate in 2014, as per Kraft's deal with the league, it is a temporary ghost town… and Canada's minor hockey associations will benefit.

This is bad news for the League; hopefully, more will follow suit. On a culinary side-note, nothing compares to Kraft Dinner.

From National Post:

It’s Canada’s official winter sport and has even been described as a national religion. If that’s true, then a clear majority of Canadians — about 61% of the adult population — haven’t set foot in any of the country’s cathedrals of hockey for at least five years.

Let me see, five years ago from now was...

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I appears that players are starting to seriously consider the idea of union decertification ( http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410081 ).

If they manage to get it done it would be interesting to see league with its anti-trust exemptions gone. No cap, no draft, every player for himself.

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Guest Kronstantinov

I appears that players are starting to seriously consider the idea of union decertification ( http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410081 ).

If they manage to get it done it would be interesting to see league with its anti-trust exemptions gone. No cap, no draft, every player for himself.

We would dominate

We would dominate

even more

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We would dominate

even more

I appears that players are starting to seriously consider the idea of union decertification ( http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410081 ).

If they manage to get it done it would be interesting to see league with its anti-trust exemptions gone. No cap, no draft, every player for himself.

Go do it, this should teach the undersized idiot and his stupid BOG not to eff around with Fehr and the NHLPA. We would be absolutely unstoppable in a free market, finally having worthwhile playoffs again.

God I'd kill for a team like 2002.

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Decertification is certainly an option for the players to put pressure on the owners.

However it is brings a huge risk with it...either the owners will cave and offer something better or they will fight in court, which means the season is gone.

The question is...will the players want to go that road over $180M over the next 5 years?

I also think that decertification opens the ability for the owners to bring in replacement players...although I am not sure of it.

If that is good thing...is another discussion.

Also wondering if someone who currently has a contract with the NHL (via the expired CBA) can sign a contract with the NHL as a 'replacement' player???

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Decertification is certainly an option for the players to put pressure on the owners.

However it is brings a huge risk with it...either the owners will cave and offer something better or they will fight in court, which means the season is gone.

The question is...will the players want to go that road over $180M over the next 5 years?

I also think that decertification opens the ability for the owners to bring in replacement players...although I am not sure of it.

If that is good thing...is another discussion.

Also wondering if someone who currently has a contract with the NHL (via the expired CBA) can sign a contract with the NHL as a 'replacement' player???

I don't think so, as I think that's a big part of what the lawsuit is. If the union decertifies they declare the lockout illegal and say that the owners are basically colluding to not honor existing contracts.

I'm not totally sure though. Decertification is so complicated and convoluted.

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Why wouldn't they try mediation before going the decertification route? I'm so tired of all the d!ck swinging! Please someone just make it stop...

At this point I'm so sick of it all I almost want them to just run the whole league into the ground instead of just crippling it every 7 to 10 years. Hopefully it'll get rid of Bettman, likely Fehr too. Then try and repair the damage with a new commissioner and try to get back the greatness of the NHL.

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Oh and by the way, the league cancelled more games and the All-Star game.

The National Hockey League announced today the cancellation of the 2012-13 regular-season schedule through December 14. The NHL also announced the cancellation of the 2013 NHL All-Star Weekend scheduled for Jan. 26-27 in Columbus, Ohio. The cancellations are necessary due to the absence of a new Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NHL Players' Association and the NHL.

A total of 422 regular-season games -- 34.3 percent of the season -- were scheduled for Oct. 11 through Dec. 14.

"The reality of losing more regular-season games as well as the 2013 NHL All-Star Weekend in Columbus is extremely disappointing," said NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly. "We feel badly for NHL fans and particularly those in Columbus, and we intend to work closely with the Blue Jackets organization to return the NHL All-Star events to Columbus and their fans as quickly as possible."

http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=646209

Add 422 games to Bettman's total.

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Guest Playmaker

Oh and by the way, the league cancelled more games and the All-Star game.

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http://www.nhl.com/i...s.htm?id=646209

Add 422 games to Bettman's total.

Yawn...couldn'tf****** care less...the only thing that would be appealing about a settlement is the thought of seeing half empty arenas and empty spaces on the boards because sponsors have bailed...but too many of the fans are as stupid as the two parties involved so we'll continue to see the same s*** repeated...

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Does anyone feel like I do at this point and would rather them just cancel the whole season than force a deal and we get stuck with some mid rate 50 game season? Ask NBA fans what the quality of games were like in a 66 game season last year.

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Does anyone feel like I do at this point and would rather them just cancel the whole season than force a deal and we get stuck with some mid rate 50 game season? Ask NBA fans what the quality of games were like in a 66 game season last year.

I feel confident saying that there won't be a season.

Hope I'm wrong, but the two sides don't see like they care anymore.

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Yawn...couldn'tf****** care less...the only thing that would be appealing about a settlement is the thought of seeing half empty arenas and empty spaces on the boards because sponsors have bailed...but too many of the fans are as stupid as the two parties involved so we'll continue to see the same s*** repeated...

This stupid fan, can wait as long as it takes and will be first in line to get tickets to see the Wings.

The lockout may very well be a good thing for this team, we could end up with a higher draft pick then we would have normally, including a 1 in 30 shot of the #1 pick.

I love how you think that both sides are stupid, aswell as anyone who attends a game after this, yet you are on a fan site posting about hockey instead of doing everything else in the world.

Patience grasshoppa.

The Griffins game is on!

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