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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread


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#1421 Dabura

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:50 AM

Progress = The new static?

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#1422 chances14

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:22 PM

i don't like that the memo was leaked. what happened to staying away from all the pr stuff?

Edited by chances14, 09 November 2012 - 12:25 PM.


#1423 Jedi

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:36 PM

i don't like that the memo was leaked. what happened to staying away from all the pr stuff?

That's much easier to accomplish on the NHL's side than the PA's. The League only has to control the 30 owners, plus a few staff who might be "in the know". Which is even easier with the threat of a $250,000 fine for speaking out of place.

The fact that the NHLPA is made up of around 700 players and then their own internal staff, a leak such as this becomes much more likely. It would be all but impossible to tell where the leak came from, if it were sent anonymously.

LeBrun is reporting that the first meeting (of several today) has wrapped up. Talks to resume at 2pmET.

First session is over. NHL and NHLPA will meet again at 2 pm ET


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#1424 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 12:53 PM

...their so-called 'make whole'...

...significant gap...


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#1425 StormJH1

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 02:18 PM

I highly doubt Fehr would put anything inflammatory or confidential in a memo to players that could easily make it into the public's hands. I didn't read anything that memo that was different than their public stance on the matter, or even what Fehr might have said directly to Bettman or Daly. The NHLPA has made it clear that they are not happy with the limitations on future player contracts, and that an immediate rollback to 50/50 sharing (and drop of the salary cap) is not going to work.

I think the continued talks ARE encouraging. But Fehr is not going to really play ball until the owners make some type of concession on the existing contracts and the phase-in of the new distribution of HRR. We all hate the lockout, but there's this false causation I keep hearing from the fans, as if they're stuck in the 2004 logic and believe that you can fix teams like Phoenix, Dallas, etc. simply by throwing more of the money at all the owners. That didn't work in the '05 CBA, and it won't work now. The problem is in how league revenues are shared AMONGST the owners, and the fact that as soon as the new CBA is passed, the "have" GM's will figure out ways they can spend more than other teams to get an edge. Bettman isn't "learning" from this - Phoenix and the whole Western expansion is an albatross for this league, and he refuses to let the market correct it. You can also bet that he'll try to make up the money lost on this lockout with expansion fees (two new teams up to 32). People who think that the "greedy players" are the reason bad teams can't meet the cap floor without losing money are missing the whole point.

#1426 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:16 PM

That's much easier to accomplish on the NHL's side than the PA's. The League only has to control the 30 owners, plus a few staff who might be "in the know". Which is even easier with the threat of a $250,000 fine for speaking out of place.

The fact that the NHLPA is made up of around 700 players and then their own internal staff, a leak such as this becomes much more likely. It would be all but impossible to tell where the leak came from, if it were sent anonymously.

LeBrun is reporting that the first meeting (of several today) has wrapped up. Talks to resume at 2pmET.

That's what I wondered. It could very easily be an intentional PR leak. But it could also be a former player like Aaron Ward talking to one of his buddies.

And Bettman can actually fine teams up to a million dollars. He just hit the Wings with $250k for Devallano's comments.

#1427 chances14

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:47 PM

Michael Russo@Russostrib
Sources: #NHL perplexed #NHLPA did not inform players they are willing to go 50/50 and "Make Whole" every cent + interest by Year 3



if this is true, and fehr is holding back information, this could get ugly really quick. could also just be nhl propaganda to try to weaken the union.


and this was a response by one of the players to that tweet

Krys Barch@krysbarch
@Russostrib can u please explain further?



talk about being uninformed lol

Edited by chances14, 09 November 2012 - 06:53 PM.


#1428 chances14

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 07:00 PM

here's russo's blog regarding the tweet

http://www.startribu.../178216921.html

I'm told one of the NHLPA's demands that the league is not willing to do is pay 100% of the salaries this season no matter how many games are played



sure hope that's not true or else we can kiss the season goodbye. no way the owners agree to that.

Edited by chances14, 09 November 2012 - 07:07 PM.


#1429 toby91_ca

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 08:38 PM

I have a really bad feeling now. All I have been hearing about is Fehr withholding information from Union, but I don't think that's true....not the problem. Information was left out of memo due to knowing it woudl be leaked, didn't want full details in there....that's all fine, but my issue is that Bettman is now trying to put a wedge between Fehr and the players. To me, this means talks aren't going well and this certainly isn't going to make them go any better.

#1430 Nightfall

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:43 PM

I have a really bad feeling now. All I have been hearing about is Fehr withholding information from Union, but I don't think that's true....not the problem. Information was left out of memo due to knowing it woudl be leaked, didn't want full details in there....that's all fine, but my issue is that Bettman is now trying to put a wedge between Fehr and the players. To me, this means talks aren't going well and this certainly isn't going to make them go any better.

You don't believe that Fehr is withholding information, but you do believe that Bettman is now trying to put a wedge between Fehr and the players? I believe its a bit of both going on. If Fehr was communicating well, the players would be on the same page. Right now, some players are either out of the loop or there is confusion. I will say that Fehr's group is much bigger, but the players shouldn't be tweeting that they want clarification.

At the same time though, both Bettman and Fehr are bargaining with their sides in mind. I don't think that either side is really communicating with their respective sides in the detail that they need to. Still, its the majority that need to be addressed.
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#1431 chances14

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:04 PM

lebrun on today's meetings

Sources on both sides confirmed to ESPN.com that the league’s Make Whole offer -- an attempt to honor players’ existing contracts -- amounts to $211 million of guaranteed money ($149 million in Year 1 and $62 million in Year 2, both deferred in payment by one year and payable with interest). The league’s belief is that by Year 3 of the deal, revenues will have likely grown enough that at 50 percent of HRR the players shouldn’t face much if any salary erosion in escrow. At which one NHLPA source countered, what if the revenues don’t grow that much? Then what? The union says in that case players aren’t made whole on their contracts
Listen, the league’ $211-million Make Whole offer is not anything to sniff at, it’s a tangible move on the league’s part. But it’s still nowhere close to where the NHLPA would be willing to sign off on. Try about $600 million or so. That might do it.



so wait. every pa proposal has been based on projected revenue growth, but when nhl makes a growth proposal, it's seen as nothing by the pa? where was this concern by the pa when they were presenting their own proposals based on revenue growth?

Edited by chances14, 09 November 2012 - 11:06 PM.


#1432 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:22 PM

I have a really bad feeling now. All I have been hearing about is Fehr withholding information from Union, but I don't think that's true....not the problem. Information was left out of memo due to knowing it woudl be leaked, didn't want full details in there....that's all fine, but my issue is that Bettman is now trying to put a wedge between Fehr and the players. To me, this means talks aren't going well and this certainly isn't going to make them go any better.

Your feeling sounds correct.

Per Aaron Ward's twitter:

According to multiple player sources,"the notion that players don't know what's in CBA proposal is a complete fabrication". Today's meeting was described as 'heated'. One observation,"they couldn't have tried harder to push us away".Sensing huge frustration with the league on share of 'Make Whole',and stood firm on player contracting issues..



#1433 Dabura

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:33 PM

What is this "Well, if you're going to criticize Bettman, you have to hit D. Fehr with the same" business? No, I don't; Bettman is a known evil, a master manipulator.

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#1434 toby91_ca

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:09 AM

You don't believe that Fehr is withholding information, but you do believe that Bettman is now trying to put a wedge between Fehr and the players? I believe its a bit of both going on. If Fehr was communicating well, the players would be on the same page. Right now, some players are either out of the loop or there is confusion. I will say that Fehr's group is much bigger, but the players shouldn't be tweeting that they want clarification.

At the same time though, both Bettman and Fehr are bargaining with their sides in mind. I don't think that either side is really communicating with their respective sides in the detail that they need to. Still, its the majority that need to be addressed.

What confusion are you talking about? From all accounts that I can see...players are on the same page. Are you referring to the Krys Barch tweet? If so, not sure what that shows....I see it as him asking "what are you talking about?"

#1435 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 08:11 AM

I realize that there is a lot more that must be negotiated, but if the League isn't going to budge on either "make whole" or the "honouring of signed contracts" (or both), these negotiations are doomed.
I can't help but think that if Uncle Gary hadn't shouted "LOCKOUT", there would be hockey right now and negotiations would be at the very same
position.

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#1436 Nightfall

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 10:33 AM

I realize that there is a lot more that must be negotiated, but if the League isn't going to budge on either "make whole" or the "honouring of signed contracts" (or both), these negotiations are doomed.
I can't help but think that if Uncle Gary hadn't shouted "LOCKOUT", there would be hockey right now and negotiations would be at the very same
position.

There would be hockey, but no negotiations if that happened. Fehr and the players had ZERO incentive to get a deal done under the last proposal. They would have played under that until the deal wasn't good for them anymore and then they would have stepped forward to the negotiating table.
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#1437 chances14

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:59 PM

I realize that there is a lot more that must be negotiated, but if the League isn't going to budge on either "make whole" or the "honouring of signed contracts" (or both), these negotiations are doomed.
I can't help but think that if Uncle Gary hadn't shouted "LOCKOUT", there would be hockey right now and negotiations would be at the very same
position.


they have budged on the make whole but the pa didn't like that the nhl's proposal was based on projected growth. to me that's hypocrisy at it's finest. every pa proposal has been based on projected growth and they mentioned no concerns about if those numbers would be reached, but when the nhl throws the projected growth back at them, they all of a sudden have doubts about whether the numbers can be reached.

#1438 chances14

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:07 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/sp...yers-union.html

#1439 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:27 PM

There would be hockey, but no negotiations if that happened. Fehr and the players had ZERO incentive to get a deal done under the last proposal. They would have played under that until the deal wasn't good for them anymore and then they would have stepped forward to the negotiating table.


There is always ways to improve the employees' position during collective bargaining negotiations. They are working to create a deal that is best for themselves; there is absolutely nothing wrong with that line of thinking. The recently expired CBA was not the "end-all and be-all" deal. You can't get it unless you ask for it.


Uncle Gary's "trojan horse" routine isn't working.

The NHLPA's executive director is driving the NHL and its bargaining team crazy.


Good!

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#1440 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 10 November 2012 - 01:27 PM

Someone throw an octopus at Fehr's face.

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