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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread


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#1561 Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:27 PM

Does anyone care about hockey anymore? I've found I don't really miss it, and I didn't think I'd feel that way. All of these clowns have so completely soured the sport for me, if it comes back, I won't watch it. I'll follow the games to some extent here on LGW, but I sure as hell won't go out of my way for it. I did the same thing after the MLB strike in 1994, and it took quite a long time to re-ignite my love for baseball.

Grown adults, all making a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge sum of money well beyond that of their fans, arguing over who should get more money.

PATHETIC.

I couldn't care less if the league folds at this point. Money has poisoned the game. Its a joke that thousands of people in this nation are homeless, while these douchers sit around and bicker and whine over who gets more of the multi-million dollar pie. Its sickening.
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#1562 kipwinger

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 10:29 PM

This part made me laugh out loud.


Yes, those poor poor GM's, who with their approval of their owners extended ridiculous contracts to the players, which the players then signed.

The economic model of the NHL was not sustainable, which is why a cap was installed. The owners drove contracts up amongst themselves. Of course players (and certainly agents) were happy to take advantage of that. It's not realistic to think a player would pass up money for the good of the league, as if they gave up $3 million, the owner would use that money to somehow benefit all of the NHL instead of just putting it in his pocket.

The responsibility of running a successful franchise ultimately is on the owners and GM's. We're lucky enough with Detroit to have a great owner who knows what he's doing.


Agreed, the responsibility of running the franchises which make up the National Hockey League falls on the owners. The players have no such responsibility. Because the owners accrue ALL of the costs and take ALL of the financial risks, they deserve a majority of the HRR. Once the players agree to that, the owners can agree to honor existing contracts, and we can all start playing/watching hockey again.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

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#1563 Johnz96

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 03:33 AM

Agreed, the responsibility of running the franchises which make up the National Hockey League falls on the owners. The players have no such responsibility. Because the owners accrue ALL of the costs and take ALL of the financial risks, they deserve a majority of the HRR. Once the players agree to that, the owners can agree to honor existing contracts, and we can all start playing/watching hockey again.

The players are already helping the owners out by agreeing to drop their share of the revenue to 50/50 all they want is for the owners to honor contracts they have already signed. Because they players are not only employees but also the product that the fans pay for, they deserve a majority of the HRR, they are being magnanimous saving the owners from their own decisions (hiring Betmman was their decision.
Anybody who doesn't see that Bettman is totally responsible for the lockouts has got their head up their ass
He is the worst thing to ever happen tothe game of hockey even if you don't consider the lockouts

#1564 frankgrimes

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:24 AM

The whole sage reminds me on a great Linkin Park video labeled I've become so numb...

Seriously, I am at point where I don't get care about this crap any longer. Bettman, Daily, Jacobs and the rest of these hardball clowns can jump off a bridge. The NHLPA already agreed to a freaking split and yet these idiots continue to ask for more. Negotiations are a two way street, so if the players share is dropping by 7 % at least honor their freaking rights and contracts. you know give and take for once?

The players are the product, they are generating the revenue, revenue which is then used by the owners to pay for mr. anti hockey himself and fatback Daily, keep franchises in non hockey markets and spend millions of $ for buying pro owner posters on some boards...

Go nuclear, fold the league, start from scratch or whatever but at least stop all this PR bulls*** I don't even read it anymore one thing tough is for sure, if mr. AntiHockey is keeping his job after this I really don't know what to say, the guy needs to be gone.

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#1565 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:50 PM

From Philadelphia Daily News:

On the surface, prospects for an end to the NHL's 2-month lockout took a nosedive this week, when commissioner Gary Bettman proposed a 2-week moratorium in talks after bargaining reached yet another standstill.



Behind the scenes, there seems to be a seismic shift going on among the NHL's Board of Governors, also known as the group that Bettman answers to collectively.



And Flyers chairman Ed Snider may be the big mover-and-shaker behind it all.



Multiple sources confirmed to the Daily News on Friday that Snider, once seen as a supporter of the Bettman's push to rein in the players' share of revenue, has soured on the process after it became apparent that a deal would not be brokered in time for a Dec. 1 puck drop.



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#1566 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 02:54 PM

Agreed, the responsibility of running the franchises which make up the National Hockey League falls on the owners. The players have no such responsibility. Because the owners accrue ALL of the costs and take ALL of the financial risks, they deserve a majority of the HRR. Once the players agree to that, the owners can agree to honor existing contracts, and we can all start playing/watching hockey again.


But that ignores the fact that the players are the reason people pay so much to follow the NHL. They are elite talent and what generates billions of dollars for the league.

The owners take the financial risks but they depend on a very small and skilled labor pool to generate revenue.

If people just want to watch any old hockey played by above average athletes, there's plenty of minor leagues available. But fans won't shell out 3 billion dollars to follow those leagues.

#1567 kipwinger

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 03:16 PM

But that ignores the fact that the players are the reason people pay so much to follow the NHL. They are elite talent and what generates billions of dollars for the league.

The owners take the financial risks but they depend on a very small and skilled labor pool to generate revenue.

If people just want to watch any old hockey played by above average athletes, there's plenty of minor leagues available. But fans won't shell out 3 billion dollars to follow those leagues.


Agreed, they rely on a small and extremely skilled labor pool and that labor pool is compensated accordingly. I'm ok with the NHLPA fighting to ensure the NHL honor existing contracts, precisely because high end labor must be compensated accordingly. The NHL should budge on that issue. However I don't see how anyone can justify a majority of HRR also going to the players as compensation by saying "they're elite laborers". They are that, which is why they get paid as much as they do. The majority of the HRR should go to the people who take the risks and therefore can actually LOSE money. Owners lose money (via declining ticket and merch sales) if their players play like s***. Players are guaranteed their money whether they suck or not (looking at you Ty Conklin). Owners can also lose money via things that are completely out of their control, like global recessions. They take risks. That's the difference, and that's why the players should budge on HRR.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#1568 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 03:26 PM

Agreed, they rely on a small and extremely skilled labor pool and that labor pool is compensated accordingly. I'm ok with the NHLPA fighting to ensure the NHL honor existing contracts, precisely because high end labor must be compensated accordingly. The NHL should budge on that issue. However I don't see how anyone can justify a majority of HRR also going to the players as compensation by saying "they're elite laborers". They are that, which is why they get paid as much as they do. The majority of the HRR should go to the people who take the risks and therefore can actually LOSE money. Owners lose money (via declining ticket and merch sales) if their players play like s***. Players are guaranteed their money whether they suck or not (looking at you Ty Conklin). Owners can also lose money via things that are completely out of their control, like global recessions. They take risks. That's the difference, and that's why the players should budge on HRR.


They already have. It sounds like they're at 50/50. I don't know what the current situation is regarding the make whole payments.

So at this point is the holdup just contracting rights? I'm really not sure due to disbelief and waning interest in the whole mess.

#1569 kipwinger

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:03 PM

They already have. It sounds like they're at 50/50. I don't know what the current situation is regarding the make whole payments.

So at this point is the holdup just contracting rights? I'm really not sure due to disbelief and waning interest in the whole mess.


Well I think the holdup is two things, the League doesn't want to honor contracts, and the NHLPA won't give on the HRR because it's not an even split, it's only 50/50 for a couple years and then the league gets a little more as far as I understand.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#1570 rrasco

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:38 PM

AFAIK they have already come to terms on the revenue split and the definitions of HRR, it's the players' contracting rights that are stifling progress. Obviously I'm not in the room, but that's what I get from the reports.

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#1571 kipwinger

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:22 PM

AFAIK they have already come to terms on the revenue split and the definitions of HRR, it's the players' contracting rights that are stifling progress. Obviously I'm not in the room, but that's what I get from the reports.


Thanks for the heads up, I'm apparently behind in the "news that infuriates me" department, haha.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#1572 chances14

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:33 PM

interesting

“In the last conference call, a player asked Don why he was learning details of the NHL’s last proposal through the media and not via Don or the players in attendance,” an NHL player told ESPNBoston.com. “Don and some other players called that player out and basically embarrassed him for asking that.”

To be fair, we might be missing information that would add further context to the situation that the player is describing.

It’s also worth noting that a couple of players have suggested that the union should, at least partially, share in the blame for the ongoing lockout.

Tomas Kaberle recently said that “both sides need to smarten up.”

Last month, Dan Boyle complained that “both sides think it’s their way or the highway.”


http://prohockeytalk...onference-call/

#1573 kipwinger

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:01 PM

The players are already helping the owners out by agreeing to drop their share of the revenue to 50/50 all they want is for the owners to honor contracts they have already signed. Because they players are not only employees but also the product that the fans pay for, they deserve a majority of the HRR, they are being magnanimous saving the owners from their own decisions (hiring Betmman was their decision.
Anybody who doesn't see that Bettman is totally responsible for the lockouts has got their head up their ass
He is the worst thing to ever happen tothe game of hockey even if you don't consider the lockouts


My original comment had nothing to say about (or to do with) Gary Bettman. Would you prefer I go back and edit in something about him so that your standard broken record blame game seems a little more organic and a little less forced or what? I'd be glad to help you out.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#1574 The Axe

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:58 PM

Greg Wyshynski's take on the NHL's two week break proposal. I rather like the last paragraph...


Exactly. Why the *** cant these idiots work s*** out.

#1575 chances14

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:19 PM

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409721

The NHL and NHLPA intend on resuming bargaining Monday night in New York City.

The dynamic of those attending hasn't been confirmed, although it's expected both players and owners will be involved in what is described as a "smaller group" meeting.

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly tells TSN the league's position has been somewhat misrepresented and while the NHL has certain parameters it isn't willing to budge on, he suggests there is flexibility as the negotiation remains in a critical stage.

"Nothing was ever said or even suggested that we needed the details of our proposal "down to the comma. We told them the issues we wanted addressed in the system. We told them we have provided a proposal that we think will effectively address those issues.

"But we told them that we are open to discussing other ways to address those issues if they want to propose any," continued Daly. "In fact, we used the exact example of "if we need five and we have proposed 3+2 to get there, that we are happy to listening to and considering 4+1 instead. I'm not sure why they chose to characterize the way they did. As I've said before, I can only control what we say."


so did fehr misrepresent the nhl's position to the players or is the nhl simply backtracking? we'll probably never know.

#1576 irishock

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:25 AM

I have a feeling Ian's PIM will go from 22 to 164 this year.

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#1577 Euro_Twins

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:52 PM

im going to take a nap wake me up when they strike a deal. I am tired of reading all this crap about how they cannot resolve what should have been the easiest CBA negotiation ever! :zzz:

#1578 kipwinger

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:40 PM

From Philadelphia Daily News:



And they all fall down?


What a stand up guy. No longer content to jerk people around because he can, Ed Snider is beginning to finally see the light. What's the matter Ed? Did you expect toying around with your minions to be more fun (and less costly) than this?

Edited by kipwinger, 18 November 2012 - 01:41 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#1579 Johnz96

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:06 PM

My original comment had nothing to say about (or to do with) Gary Bettman. Would you prefer I go back and edit in something about him so that your standard broken record blame game seems a little more organic and a little less forced or what? I'd be glad to help you out.

It would be accurate if you did

#1580 amato

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 02:06 PM

im going to take a nap wake me up when they strike a deal. I am tired of reading all this crap about how they cannot resolve what should have been the easiest CBA negotiation ever! :zzz:


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