2458 replies to this topic

[hillbillywingsfan]

Great post thank you.

Love seeing classy guys like Toews, Suter and White voicing their understandable frustrations with mr. Midget and his BFF Jacobs.

A deal can get done soon but the NHL has to start being realistic!

Fehr is a great leader and the PA is not going to put up with all the crap, the NHL is trying (paid off idiots like Cox, focus groups or fanboy posters on some hockey forums).

But whatever the NHL is not going to recover easily this time, second lockout in seven years is hardly acceptable

Sent from my BlackBerry

Ohhhh but no one from the other side can say anything???? Sort of how this forum is now. Seems like we were just warned about complaining how others are posting but it seems like some can get away with it....oh well.

The only crying I see are the people crying about bettman and the players. or should I say "buttman" so you guys understand who i'm talking about.

Turn coats....give me a break.

Ya, get in your pen cattle.
How dare you have an opinion on your boss not letting you make a living.
You are a product and not a person.
You are under contract, that needs to be respected along with the man who signed it.
--PFFFFT--

Sounds like the only crying is from the turncoats on these boards and the PR boys running TSN right now.

A two week break was proposed, how is that negotiating???
Ian spoke up and threw Bettman under the bus, saying what all of us have said or thought at one point.
And what happened???
They got their asses back to the table, way to go and thank you Mr. White.

"how dare my boss make more than me...thats just stupid and soxors.....MOMMY!!!! THE PEOPLE THAT PAY FOR ME TO PLAY IN THIS GREAT LEAGUE WONT GIVE ME MORE THAN WHAT THEY MAKE!!!!......hahaha Yeah Whites childish comments made the nhl go back to the table. hahaha

Edited by hillbillywingsfan, 19 November 2012 - 08:44 PM.

[chances14]

Ya, get in your pen cattle.
How dare you have an opinion on your boss not letting you make a living.
You are a product and not a person.
You are under contract, that needs to be respected along with the man who signed it.
--PFFFFT--

Sounds like the only crying is from the turncoats on these boards and the PR boys running TSN right now.

A two week break was proposed, how is that negotiating???
Ian spoke up and threw Bettman under the bus, saying what all of us have said or thought at one point.
And what happened???
They got their asses back to the table, way to go and thank you Mr. White.

LOL. so you're saying that the only reason why they are back negotiating tonight is because white called bettman an idiot? good lord....

we shouldn't be pro bettman or pro union, rather we should all be pro hockey. if your employees called you an idiot or a cancer (like versteeg said today on the radio) would that make you more willing to compromise?

Owners shouldn't be concerned with how the players divide their share among themselves. Certainly not so concerned to extend the lockout because of it.

agreed. the nhl said that it will be flexible on these the contracting issues if they can agree on the economics. we shall see.

[hillbillywingsfan]

LOL. so you're saying that the only reason why they are back negotiating tonight is because white called bettman an idiot? good lord....

we shouldn't be pro bettman or pro union, rather we should all be pro hockey. if your employees called you an idiot or a cancer (like versteeg said today on the radio) would that make you more willing to compromise?

Thats what some I guess just don't get on here. And if you don't go with the herd you are a turncoat I guess.

Edited by hillbillywingsfan, 19 November 2012 - 08:42 PM.

[chances14]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
If a proposal(s) isn't made by the union, there doesn't appear to be a way to forward the negotiations.

Tues will be interesting. If players series of proposals materializes and address some concerns, talks on contract issues will pick up.

Message from the NHL to the players tonight was..."We need something," a framework on the economics to encourage the league to soften.

As we said before the meeting, we repeat post-meeting. NHL wants an understanding on the PA's economics before flexing on contract issues.

Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika
NHL won't engage on contracting because it does not want to discuss one issue in isolation. Everything is interconnected. (1)

That's why NHL has asked for the PA to make a full proposal.

so basically, the pa needs to come up with a proposal or else negotiations are going to go nowhere.

[Euro_Twins]

Thats what some I guess just don't get on here. And if you don't go with the herd you are a turncoat I guess.

I agree we should be pro hockey, I just do not agree with Bettman's bargaining tactics, and his my way or the highway attitude. I like the fact that Fehr is standing strong for the players. Now do I think this lockout is stupid and pointless? Of course I do, both sides are being greedy, this should have been the easiest CBA ever, but I fall more on favouring the players here. They were guaranteed these contracts, now the owners are crying that they signed them.
Go fly a kite Bettman!

Edited by Euro_Twins, 19 November 2012 - 10:37 PM.

[chances14]

I agree we should be pro hockey, I just do not agree with Bettman's bargaining tactics, and his my way or the highway attitude. I like the fact that Fehr is standing strong for the players. Now do I think this lockout is stupid and pointless? Of course I do, both sides are being greedy, this should have been the easiest CBA ever, but I fall more on favouring the players here. They were guaranteed these contracts, now the owners are crying that they signed them, go fly a kite!

i don't like bettman either and i hope he is gone soon after the next cba is signed. but i don't let the hate cloud my judgement and i certainly don't let it support players who call out the head nhl guys idiots and cancer as somehow being the right thing to do. it's unprofessional and does nothing positive whatsoever for getting hockey back.

[Barrie]

A deal can get done soon but the NHL has to start being realistic!

Fehr is a great leader and the PA is not going to put up with all the crap, the NHL is trying (paid off idiots like Cox, focus groups or fanboy posters on some hockey forums).

But whatever the NHL is not going to recover easily this time, second lockout in seven years is hardly acceptable

Yea Bettman and the 7 owners that back him are in a dream world. They're nothing compared to MLB, who Fehr took on and beat. Fehr probably hasn't even broken a sweat yet, is loving every minute of this, and is probably laughing and making jokes about Bettman behind closed doors. With the other 22 other owners putting pressure on Bettman to get a deal done, he better give in. Fans and advertisers are pissed, and there's a number of them who won't return. Bettman's self infalted ego has runied the game. The NHL will be lucky if it only takes them 3 years to recover. It'll probably take about 5.

I've been saying from the beginning Bettman won't be Commish when this is all done. I wouldn't be surprised if he'll be out of a job by the end of December. The only way we'll get a new CBA signed is if Bettman's gone. I laugh everytime I hear/read someone say he does what the owners tell him and they all back him. Bettman has his own agenda and he put himself in a position where it's almost impossible for him to be fired, however he's almost reached that point. This is similar to a country trying to get rid of a dictator.

[Barrie]

i don't like bettman either and i hope he is gone soon after the next cba is signed. but i don't let the hate cloud my judgement and i certainly don't let it support players who call out the head nhl guys idiots and cancer as somehow being the right thing to do. it's unprofessional and does nothing positive whatsoever for getting hockey back.

I hope more players call Bettman an idiot and a cancer. That's exactly what he is! It's time for him to either step down, or for him to be taken down. He won't step down, so it's time for Fehr and the PA to take him out, and I think that's why Fehr was hired, to take out Bettman. Bettman's easily the worst Commish in the history of sports, and the 2012-13 Lockout will be the worst decision a Commish has ever made.

[chances14]

I hope more players call Bettman an idiot and a cancer

the only thing it can do is hamper negotiations and it makes the players look just as idiotic.

now if you care more about getting bettman fired than getting hockey back, which seems to be a very popular opinion around here, that's your choice and that's fine

i don't care who the commissioner is, i just want to watch red wings hockey again. players calling the commisoner an idiot and a cancer is not helping that whatsoever.

Edited by chances14, 19 November 2012 - 11:27 PM.

[Nightfall]

I agree we should be pro hockey, I just do not agree with Bettman's bargaining tactics, and his my way or the highway attitude. I like the fact that Fehr is standing strong for the players. Now do I think this lockout is stupid and pointless? Of course I do, both sides are being greedy, this should have been the easiest CBA ever, but I fall more on favouring the players here. They were guaranteed these contracts, now the owners are crying that they signed them.
Go fly a kite Bettman!

So you don't agree with Bettman's bargaining tactics and his my way or the highway attitude. Yet when Fehr has the same bargaining tactics and his my way or the highway attitude, you consider it as "standing strong". Yet you say that both sides are being greedy. Hrm......

I hope more players call Bettman an idiot and a cancer. That's exactly what he is! It's time for him to either step down, or for him to be taken down. He won't step down, so it's time for Fehr and the PA to take him out, and I think that's why Fehr was hired, to take out Bettman. Bettman's easily the worst Commish in the history of sports, and the 2012-13 Lockout will be the worst decision a Commish has ever made.

That will cost a full season of hockey. Thats a high price to pay for the owners to just fire Bettman and then hire in another guy who could be worse than Bettman. After all, firing Bettman won't solve the problem of the owners. These same owners will select another leader who is similar to Bettman probably. If not the same, he will be worse.

[esteef]

Get rid of Instigator rule.

esteef

[Buppy]

the only thing it can do is hamper negotiations and it makes the players look just as idiotic.
...

Players are people with opinions, just like anyone else. I'd wager many of us have said similar things about our own bosses, we just don't have reporters printing it.

It may not be professional to say something like that when you know it's going to be in the media, but so what? If Bettman (or anyone else) lets comments like White's influence the negotiations, it proves that he is an idiot and unqualified for his position.

[Dabura]

Thats what some I guess just don't get on here. And if you don't go with the herd you are a turncoat I guess.

Dude, practically everything you say is anti-NHLPA. Now, that doesn't make you a "turncoat" - but if you're gonna sit here and say "No one understands that it's not about being pro-Bettman or pro-Union"...I don't know what to say. This post will probably be deleted anyway.

I get the hate for the players, I guess. But let's be honest: Bettman and the owners are the evil ones here.

[Pskov Wings Fan]

so basically, the pa needs to come up with a proposal or else negotiations are going to go nowhere.

If NHLPA is unable to do so at this point then I wonder what they have been doing all this time. I would hope they got one ready to go and not claim needing time to prepare it.

[hillbillywingsfan]

Dude, practically everything you say is anti-NHLPA. Now, that doesn't make you a "turncoat" - but if you're gonna sit here and say "No one understands that it's not about being pro-Bettman or pro-Union"...I don't know what to say. This post will probably be deleted anyway.

I get the hate for the players, I guess. But let's be honest: Bettman and the owners are the evil ones here.

I think you need to go back through and re-read what I have been posting. I hate both sides and have said it many time in this thread. I'm just sick and tired of the crying from some on here about bettman and saying it is all his fault and the nhl.

Then you have players being stupid and unprofessional running their mouths and it's ok some how to most of you but it's not ok for the league or anyone that has any part of the league to say anything....talk about pro 1 sided. And again so you know..I hate both sides and think both sides are money hungry idiots and I'm getting to the point where I couldn't care any less if we have hockey or not this season. Both sides are killing this sport that I loved but I'm not some fool who thinks it's all 1 mans fault that in all honesty is only doing what the owners tell him to do.

[55fan]

Just a question for the accountant-ish, mathy types out there:

How many players are effected by this lockout?

I was thinking about the 50-50 split.

If there are 30 owners (counting Phoenix as being owned as though by one owner, and all other teams with shared ownership interests as being one "owner" entity which will then divide its share amongst the individuals), then what percentage of the total would the 30 each be receiving?

Then, given the number of players effected, what percent would be the share of each player, on average? I'm assuming that the Crosbys are getting a much bigger percent than the Quinceys.

Now if this adds up to 100 (assuming that 50 plus 50 is indeed 100), where does the league as an entity get its cut? Is it from the owners' shares or is it something that they take off the top before the remainder is split 50-50?

We talk about players and owners and percentages, but it's all too big to fit into my head math-wise.

I'm not a math person. Any help here would be appreciated.

[drwscc]

Man, the level of vinegary Summer's Eve in this thread is astounding. Acting like Gary Bettman (Buttman Midget hurr hurr hurr) is the sole cause of this lockout is so stupid as to border on mental disability. Even Ryan Lambert admits that Bettman has been good for the game, and hasn't ruined everything,

Is Bettman (Troll Dwarf idiot cancer durr durr durr) doing a great job in selling the lockout? No. Is the Players' Bettman doing a good job with the PR war? Absolutely, as evidenced by all the paint chips eating responses in this thread, and others around the boards. Everyone is white knighting the players side like they are absolutely blameless in this whole mess. Just like the BCTWGMIU is completely blameless for the death of Hostess.

At this point, I really fail to care about the NHL anymore. Both sides have demonstrated multiple times that they are petulant children who don't want to share their Legos. If neither side is willing to budge, there's no way to move forward. BOTH sides are at fault. Keep on believing that if the owners would just fire Bettman and bring on Bob Goodenow that everything would just move along nicely.

[RippedOnNitro]

So...what chances are that the NHLPA presents a full proposal with linked revenue by Wednesday?

Anyone optimistic that happening?

[RippedOnNitro]

I am optimistic the NHLPA will come with a linked proposal, something like this:

Year 1: 57.0%
Year 2: 55.1%
Year 3: 53.1%
Year 4: 52.0%
Year 5: 51.2%

Based on 5% revenue growth annually + keeping old contracts at 57% value.

[Dabura]

For the record, I don't think the players are blameless. And I don't think Bettman is the sole cause of this lockout. And I don't think axing Bettman will change much in the way of owner-player relations.

I do think this is an owners' lockout. I do think this is a "Hi, we want to screw you over in every possible way, and to as great an extent as possible. Please sign here, here, and here. Then we can all be friends again" situation - the third under Bettman's reign. And I do think 1) there's something wrong with that, 2) the blame for all this bulls*** rests more on the shoulders of the Commissioner and the owners.