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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread


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#1821 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:16 PM

Words from Uncle Billshut:

“Today, we concluded two days of mediation with FMCS mediators and representatives of the NHL Players’ Association. After spending several hours with both sides over two days, the presiding mediators concluded that the parties remained far apart, and that no progress toward a resolution could be made through further mediation at this point in time. We are disappointed that the mediation process was not successful.”


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#1822 Crashnburnluder

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 08:49 PM

Words from Uncle Billshut:


RIP NHL season 2013....

#1823 chances14

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 09:22 PM

the next step will be decertifcation, which will effectively end this season and possibly at least part of the next season

#1824 Jedi

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:05 AM

the next step will be decertifcation, which will effectively end this season and possibly at least part of the next season

I don't think they'll decertify just yet. They might give Bettman's "players & owners only" idea a spin.

Or they might decertify. At this rate, who the hell really knows...

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#1825 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:32 AM

I don't think they'll decertify just yet. They might give Bettman's "players & owners only" idea a spin.

Or they might decertify. At this rate, who the hell really knows...

The "players and owners only" meeting is a terrible idea for the players.

The players should counter by challenging the owners and bettman to a pickup game of hockey. Winner gets everything they want in the CBA.

#1826 55fan

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:36 AM

The "players and owners only" meeting is a terrible idea for the players.

The players should counter by challenging the owners and bettman to a pickup game of hockey. Winner gets everything they want in the CBA.

Put Bettman in goal and put it on pay-per-view.

Bettman gets shellacked, the league recoups its financial losses, and the players get to start the season with a warm, fuzzy feeling in their hearts.

#1827 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:43 AM

Put Bettman in goal and put it on pay-per-view.

Bettman gets shellacked, the league recoups its financial losses, and the players get to start the season with a warm, fuzzy feeling in their hearts.

Sounds like a plan to me.

People love to quote the Forbes report from a couple years ago. Well Forbes just valued the Leafs franchise as being worth $1 billion dollars. That's a B, not an M.

And last season the NHL experienced 9% growth in revenue, and the average value of an NHL team was worth 18% more than the previous season.

Makes perfect sense they'd lock the players out and cost a season in that kind of terrible economic environment. :eh:


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410452

#1828 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 08:15 AM

The latest attempt to circumvent negotiations bring to a total, by my count, of two. This is unpresidented in sports labour negotiations. "Negotiating in good faith" is a totally foreign concept to Uncle Gary.
What's next; a voucher given to each player from the League, good for the purchase of a turkey?
To these eyes, there is no more proof necessary that Uncle Gary's Christmas wish is to bust the union.

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#1829 Jedi

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 10:33 AM

The "players and owners only" meeting is a terrible idea for the players.


Not that he's the end-all-be-all authority on anything, but Danny Cleary at least is is keen on the idea...

And while it may prove to be a terrible idea for the players, it does at least address one question that we've seen raised several times here. The question of "What would happen if Bettman and Fehr (and their substantial egos) were not involved in the process?"

In the end, I don't think anything would come of that kind of a meeting, especially if hawks like Jacobs and Leonsis are involved. But it would at least be interesting to see what might happen with a direct meeting like that...

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#1830 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:07 AM

Not that he's the end-all-be-all authority on anything, but Danny Cleary at least is is keen on the idea...

And while it may prove to be a terrible idea for the players, it does at least address one question that we've seen raised several times here. The question of "What would happen if Bettman and Fehr (and their substantial egos) were not involved in the process?"

In the end, I don't think anything would come of that kind of a meeting, especially if hawks like Jacobs and Leonsis are involved. But it would at least be interesting to see what might happen with a direct meeting like that...

Hell at this point they should try just about anything. I guess it's good Bettman actually asked the union this time before trying the end around of owners talking directly to players.

Mostly I just meant that this definitely benefits the owners more than players. There's nothing they'd love more than to negotiate directly with players during contract negotiations and CBA negotiations. It'd be like the pre-NHLPA days. If hockey players were great at negotiations, they wouldn't need agents. Meanwhile they're sitting across from billionaire owners with extensive business and negotiating experience, as well as a massive support staff to help them.

Either way, my main position is still f*** this league. With the growth this league has enjoyed during this last CBA, the prudent move would've been a compromise that wouldn't lose games and damage the integrity and public faith in the NHL. What both sides gave up on the negotiating table would've been recouped fairly quickly.

Instead they're still arguing over how to arrange the deck chairs on the titanic.

#1831 StormJH1

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 11:44 AM

Hell at this point they should try just about anything. I guess it's good Bettman actually asked the union this time before trying the end around of owners talking directly to players.

Mostly I just meant that this definitely benefits the owners more than players. There's nothing they'd love more than to negotiate directly with players during contract negotiations and CBA negotiations. It'd be like the pre-NHLPA days. If hockey players were great at negotiations, they wouldn't need agents. Meanwhile they're sitting across from billionaire owners with extensive business and negotiating experience, as well as a massive support staff to help them.

Either way, my main position is still f*** this league. With the growth this league has enjoyed during this last CBA, the prudent move would've been a compromise that wouldn't lose games and damage the integrity and public faith in the NHL. What both sides gave up on the negotiating table would've been recouped fairly quickly.

Instead they're still arguing over how to arrange the deck chairs on the titanic.


My position is that I could use all the nasty rhetoric I want, but the fact is that they're ALREADY losing money they could have had from me. I spend between $100-$300 on tickets per year, usually on the two Wings games in Minnesota, plus some other Wild games. I was planning on dropping the $100+ for the first time on either Center Ice or whatever the AppleTV app (GameCenter?) is to watch out-of-market Wings games. Not to mention I was a reliable set of eyeballs on NHL broadcasts. And there's people who spend FAR, FAR more than I do. They're already losing my money. I don't need to pretend like I won't come back for it to hurt, it should already hurt them.

As for mediation, I had zero confidence that it would do anything, as did most of the reason. But while most people were focusing on the non-binding aspect, they're missing the point. The industry I work in does non-binding mediation also, but it is often very successful. The difference is that the parties view the mediator as a proxy for what an arbitrator or judge might LATER conclude in a subsequent binding proceeding. Here, there is no final binding procedure, so even if the mediator came in, railed on one side and told them "you're going to lose", it wouldn't amount to anything.

I'm actually surprised how many regular fans are buying into this notion AGAIN that the players are responsible for these teams not being able to operate at a profit. The Forbes story has tons of flaws, I'm sure, but is it really any less reliable than the self-reporting being done by Bettman and the owners? They have no interest in representing their businesses as "successful" in any way during these negotiations, and we don't have the actual numbers.

#1832 F.Michael

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 01:43 PM

Plenty of other hockey to watch. I am watching KHL streams when I can and I am going to more Griffins games. The NHL is a distant memory to me.

Yup - and this afternoon, and evening the NHL Network is airing some WHL/OHL games.

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#1833 F.Michael

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:10 PM

I'm all for the idea of a closed room meeting between the owners/players...

If anything - it'll possibly get some of those more outspoken on both sides to get the ball rolling on a new cba.

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#1834 Jedi

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:12 PM

Dreger reposted a few novel ideas for the players & owners meeting...

Interesting idea (not mine)...Don Fehr picks the 4-6 owners the players want in mtng, while Bettman selects players.


Another concept to consider for meeting. 4-6 owners, 2 GM's, 2-4 top agents and collection of players.


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#1835 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 02:31 PM

Dreger reposted a few novel ideas for the players & owners meeting...

I like both of those ideas, much more than Bettman picking the owners and Fehr picking the players. We all know Bettman would pick the owners hanging from his nuts and who the hell knows what players Fehr would pick. It would just lead to the same head butt we've been seeing thus far...

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#1836 Barrie

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 03:33 PM

Nothing's going to happen until the season ticket holders start canceling their tickets

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#1837 Nightfall

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 04:36 PM

Nothing's going to happen until the season ticket holders start canceling their tickets

http://www.thestar.c...XFI2Jw.facebook

I know a few friends of mine who have. I don't know many who have season tickets though.

I have told this story before, but one of my friends has season tickets to the Blackhawks and has had them for 8 years. Before the season started, the Hawks took 1/2 payment up front for the season tickets. This really upset a lot of season ticket holders because of the impending lockout. Now, the Hawks are paying people back every week there aren't games. So every week they get a check for 3-4 games worth of tickets that didn't get played. These are for 4 seats at about $50 per ticket so they get a check for $600-$800 each week. Oh, and if you want all your money back now, the Hawks will do it but you lose your season tickets for next season and there is a waiting list for season tickets now in Chicago.

I know if I was in this situation, I would be really pissed off.

I believe the biggest problem is that you have more corporations buying season tickets than you have real fans. The cost to go to a game these days is not cheap. The real fans cannot afford to go to many. It is considered to be a luxury. That luxury is one many cannot afford. Besides, watching them on HDTV at just the cost of their cable/satellite is more affordable. Many corporations will not be canceling their season tickets because those tickets are used to bring business in.

Hell, if I had season tickets, I would be cancelling in a heartbeat.

Edited by Nightfall, 30 November 2012 - 04:40 PM.

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#1838 Barrie

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:03 PM

I know a few friends of mine who have. I don't know many who have season tickets though.

I have told this story before, but one of my friends has season tickets to the Blackhawks and has had them for 8 years. Before the season started, the Hawks took 1/2 payment up front for the season tickets. This really upset a lot of season ticket holders because of the impending lockout. Now, the Hawks are paying people back every week there aren't games. So every week they get a check for 3-4 games worth of tickets that didn't get played. These are for 4 seats at about $50 per ticket so they get a check for $600-$800 each week. Oh, and if you want all your money back now, the Hawks will do it but you lose your season tickets for next season and there is a waiting list for season tickets now in Chicago.

I know if I was in this situation, I would be really pissed off.

I believe the biggest problem is that you have more corporations buying season tickets than you have real fans. The cost to go to a game these days is not cheap. The real fans cannot afford to go to many. It is considered to be a luxury. That luxury is one many cannot afford. Besides, watching them on HDTV at just the cost of their cable/satellite is more affordable. Many corporations will not be canceling their season tickets because those tickets are used to bring business in.

Hell, if I had season tickets, I would be cancelling in a heartbeat.


Yea I think we aren't seeing a bigger amount of season ticket cancellation, is because most of them are owned by corporations. They can take the loss, plus everything is a tax write off anyway. Bettman's using this as leverage, but it's really not a true represenation of what he majority of fans are thinking. It's like being a Maple Leafs fan, even if you want to try and protest the 45 years of horrible management, the corporations buy all the seats and the team is still making it's huge profits despite losing, so they'll never see their team win.

It's unfair, Bettman can use the corporations to his advantage. It's not the players who are greedy, it's Bettman.

Edited by Barrie, 30 November 2012 - 05:04 PM.

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#1839 darkmanx

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:09 PM

Nothing's going to happen until the season ticket holders start canceling their tickets

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Good luck, the Leafs have a 20 year waiting list for season tickets.

#1840 chances14

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:10 PM

It's unfair, Bettman can use the corporations to his advantage. It's not the players who are greedy, it's Bettman.


both sides are being greedy.





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