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Guest Johnz96

Who is the Best Russian the Wings Have Ever Had?

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Best All-Time Russian Red Wing  

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  1. 1. Whos is the all-time best Russian Red Wing



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Subjective wording from the OP.

Fetisov is, IMO, the greatest Russian player of all-time... I voted for him.

As far as the greatest Russian player throughout their Wings career, it comes down to Fedorov and Datsyuk.... Which is a hard choice to make. Both are two-way monsters, but thus far I give the edge to Fedorov who always was a playoff dynamo, while Datsyuk has been more of a hit or miss.

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He had better numbers in his first 6 seasons because goalie equipment was smaller but as goalie equipment ballooned Fedorov's numbers dropped. Kelly Kisio has better numbers is he also better? Pierre Turgeon has better numbers than Fedorov. You can't compare today's numbers to numbers in the past because they use to have so much more net to shoot at.

Datsyuk doesn't have the speed, size or shot of Samuelsson

Kisio and Turgeon don't have better numbers than Fedorov in the playoffs, nor did they make a bigger impact in their careers. I fail to see your point there. The Samuelsson jib is funny, but I wasn't just lauding Fedorov because he's a better physical specimen than Datsyuk. He utilized his skills to become a future Hall of Famer. I doubt Datsyuk is a Hall of Fame player at this point.

Goalie equipment has gotten smaller, but even so, Fedorov still had a better and more powerful shot than Datsyuk. He'd have scored more goals in any generation.

Both guys are complete players, but the things Fedorov did better than Pavel, he did by a greater margin, more so than the things Pavel can do better than Fedorov.

Subjective wording from the OP.

Fetisov is, IMO, the greatest Russian player of all-time... I voted for him.

As far as the greatest Russian player throughout their Wings career, it comes down to Fedorov and Datsyuk.... Which is a hard choice to make. Both are two-way monsters, but thus far I give the edge to Fedorov who always was a playoff dynamo, while Datsyuk has been more of a hit or miss.

Tretiak and Kharlamov are both better all-time than Fetisov, imo. I might even put some others ahead of him, but those two for sure.

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Tretiak and Kharlamov are both better all-time than Fetisov, imo. I might even put some others ahead of him, but those two for sure.

Tretiak never distanced himself from Dryden or Holacek in his time and Kharlomov was a romantic flash in the pan who is well behind Makarov and only amongst numerous other talented Russian forwards. Fetisov, the "Russian Bobby Orr" is alone amongst his peers in international competition and accolades, while also proving his place in the NHL during his twilight years.

Goalies:

Hasek

Roy

Sawchuk

Plante

Hall

Tretiak is in the discussion with Brodeur, Dryden, Holachek, Durnam, Benedict and a couple others to round out the top 10 of all-time.

Defensemen:

Orr

Harvey

Bourque

Lidstrom

Shore

With Potvin, Fetisov, Kelly and Robinson rounding out the argument for #6.

There is an argument for Fetisov or Tretiak as the greatest Russian player of all-time.... Kharlomov is far, far behind.

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Tough choice between Feds and Dats.....Pavel has given me more moments of pure joy, more moments of sheer unaldulterated "did he just do that?", made me smile more than any other sportsman in history. That playoff game he took over against Phoenix, his play when we were 0-3 down against San Jose and we were lucky to have 0. But I've got to say, overall, Fedorov was better. He burst into the league as a youngster and wasn't a late bloomer like Pav, he always produced in the playoffs in an era when the wings were up against 2 powerhouse franchises every year. He was bigger, he was quicker and he had a great slapper and one-timer.

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Having watched both play, I'd have to go with Federov. I loved watching this guy fly on the ice. Datsyuk is up there as well but Federov is a notch above. Federov was faster then Datsyuk and has a harder slapshop. Federov has as good as hands as Datsyuk does.

It doesn't really matter what era they played in, I mean if Federov was playing in the NHL now without all the hooking and grabbing he would probably be even better then he was in his time.

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Guest Johnz96   
Guest Johnz96

Having watched both play, I'd have to go with Federov. I loved watching this guy fly on the ice. Datsyuk is up there as well but Federov is a notch above. Federov was faster then Datsyuk and has a harder slapshop. Federov has as good as hands as Datsyuk does.

It doesn't really matter what era they played in, I mean if Federov was playing in the NHL now without all the hooking and grabbing he would probably be even better then he was in his time.

After his first 6 seasons when the goalie equipment got really big he has only 1 season in which he scored more than a point a game.

If Datsyuk had 6 seasons with a lot more net to shoot at their PPGs wouldn't even be close

Tough choice between Feds and Dats.....Pavel has given me more moments of pure joy, more moments of sheer unaldulterated "did he just do that?", made me smile more than any other sportsman in history. That playoff game he took over against Phoenix, his play when we were 0-3 down against San Jose and we were lucky to have 0. But I've got to say, overall, Fedorov was better. He burst into the league as a youngster and wasn't a late bloomer like Pav, he always produced in the playoffs in an era when the wings were up against 2 powerhouse franchises every year. He was bigger, he was quicker and he had a great slapper and one-timer.

Fedorov burst into the league as a youngster because we had a weak team and he was afforded a lot of ice-time. Datsyuk was a late bloomer because we had a power house team and he mostly played on the 4th line with not much PP time

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Tretiak never distanced himself from Dryden or Holacek in his time and Kharlomov was a romantic flash in the pan who is well behind Makarov and only amongst numerous other talented Russian forwards. Fetisov, the "Russian Bobby Orr" is alone amongst his peers in international competition and accolades, while also proving his place in the NHL during his twilight years.

Goalies:

Hasek

Roy

Sawchuk

Plante

Hall

Tretiak is in the discussion with Brodeur, Dryden, Holachek, Durnam, Benedict and a couple others to round out the top 10 of all-time.

Defensemen:

Orr

Harvey

Bourque

Lidstrom

Shore

With Potvin, Fetisov, Kelly and Robinson rounding out the argument for #6.

There is an argument for Fetisov or Tretiak as the greatest Russian player of all-time.... Kharlomov is far, far behind.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I wouldn't call Kharlamov a "romantic flash in the pan". I've never heard anyone but you say he was behind Makarov. He influenced a generation of Russian forwards and would have been dominant in the NHL, much like he was in the Summit Series.

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After his first 6 seasons when the goalie equipment got really big he has only 1 season in which he scored more than a point a game.

If Datsyuk had 6 seasons with a lot more net to shoot at their PPGs wouldn't even be close

Fedorov burst into the league as a youngster because we had a weak team and he was afforded a lot of ice-time. Datsyuk was a late bloomer because we had a power house team and he mostly played on the 4th line with not much PP time

It's not just about PPG. In his prime Fedorov was dominant in a way Datsyuk only is on occasion. And that's hardly a knock on Dats.

I'd also have to disagree with the people saying Datsyuk is better defensively. Fedorov was a great two way forward and actually played as a defenseman too. Dats has more Selke's, but actually playing as a defenseman also counts for being good defensively in my book.

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Guest Johnz96   
Guest Johnz96

Having watched both play, I'd have to go with Federov. I loved watching this guy fly on the ice. Datsyuk is up there as well but Federov is a notch above. Federov was faster then Datsyuk and has a harder slapshop. Federov has as good as hands as Datsyuk does.

It doesn't really matter what era they played in, I mean if Federov was playing in the NHL now without all the hooking and grabbing he would probably be even better then he was in his time.

The stats would say otherwise. in his first 6 years when the NHL allowed 6.69 goals a game Fedorov scored 529 points in 432 games, a 1.22 PPG (100.4 pace over 82 games) but when the goalie equipment ballooned Fedorov's production plummeted. In his next 7 years when the NHL allowed 5.57 goals a game (much closer to the 5.494 allowed during Datsyuk's career), Fedorov scored 425 points in 477 games a 0.89 PPG (72.98 pace over 82 games which is significantly lower than Datsyuk's 0.98 PPG or 80.43 pace over 82 games )

And his totals plummeted even further when he left the Wings at the age of 32 (younger than Datsyuk is now)

Edited by Johnz96

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Guest Johnz96   
Guest Johnz96

It's not just about PPG. In his prime Fedorov was dominant in a way Datsyuk only is on occasion. And that's hardly a knock on Dats.

I'd also have to disagree with the people saying Datsyuk is better defensively. Fedorov was a great two way forward and actually played as a defenseman too. Dats has more Selke's, but actually playing as a defenseman also counts for being good defensively in my book.

I agree it's not about the PPG, there is so much more to stats other than a players ability to produce and his effort like the superior teammates Fedorov had on the cap free Wings teams.

I'll will have to agree to disagree with you on this one as I feel that Datsyuk is dominant in a way that Fedorov was only on occasion and that is not a knock against Fedorov. Dandenault played D too. Datsyuk would be great on D also but center is much more appropriate for him. So many people wax poetic about Fedorov but there was a time around the turn of the century when he was regarded by a lot of Re Wings fans much like the much maligned Franzen is now (unfair in my opinion in both cases)

Fedorov was one of the best of his era, Datsyuk IS arguably the best of his

Edited by Johnz96

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I agree it's not about the PPG, there is so much more to stats other than a players ability to produce and his effort like the superior teammates Fedorov had on the cap free Wings teams.

I'll will have to agree to disagree with you on this one as I feel that Datsyuk is dominant in a way that Fedorov was only on occasion and that is not a knock against Fedorov. Dandenault played D too. Datsyuk would be great on D also but center is much more appropriate for him. So many people wax poetic about Fedorov but there was a time around the turn of the century when he was regarded by a lot of Re Wings fans much like the much maligned Franzen is now (unfair in my opinion in both cases)

Fedorov was one of the best of his era, Datsyuk IS arguably the best of his

Like I said, it's really a matter of opinion, but I think you're overselling Datsyuk and underselling Feds in that last sentence.

Yes Dandenault played D, but he didn't dominate on offense and then turn into a good defenseman too. There's the famous Bowman quote about Sergei playing D.

If you're talking about intangibles Datsyuk absolutely has a better attitude and seems like a better teammate off the ice. As I've said, having watched them both if I'm comparing Fedorov in his prime and Datsyuk in his prime, it's Fedorov. Sergei could play center, wing, defense. He was arguably best all around player of his era. Datsyuk is an awesome player, but Fedorov's peak was higher.

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Fedorov

It's not just that he was dominant. On any given night, prime-years Fedorov could dominate you in any number of ways, on any number of levels, donning any number of different hats over the course of the game. Euro puck-wizard (skill, finesse). Physically imposing power-forward type. Selke winner. Goal-scorer. Playmaker. Defenseman....

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Fedorov burst into the league as a youngster because we had a weak team and he was afforded a lot of ice-time. Datsyuk was a late bloomer because we had a power house team and he mostly played on the 4th line with not much PP time

Whilst I cannot dispute that the rookie Fedorov had less in front of him (Yzerman) than the rookie Datsyuk (Yzerman, Fedorov, Larionov, even Draper) that misses the point. Fedorov at 21 was a FAR better player than Datsyuk. The only reason Sergei wasn't in the NHL at 18 or 19 was because of the Iron Curtain, also the reason he was a 4th round pick and not a top-5 pick as his talent deserved. He scored 79 points his rookie year - roster depth and higher scoring era notwithstanding, it took Pavel till his 5th season in the NHL to top that. There's nothing wrong per se with being a late bloomer, most players are, its usually only lottery picks like Crosby, Malkin etc who can come in at 18 or 19 and perform like stars.

When Pavel arrived, he was a shy, undersized kid - outstanding stickhandling ability that had everyones eyes popping out, but no-one, no-one predicted the 2-way beast he would become. How much of that was opportunity, maturity, increasing strength, confidence, desire, Babcock's coaching, who knows? The fact is Pavel was 27 before he had a season that could be compared to Sergei. At 27 Feds had won 2 Selke's, a Hart and was a 3-time All-Star.

Fedorov was bigger, stronger, faster, had a better slap-shot, a better one-timer, as good defensively and almost as good a stickhandler (but no-one compares to Pav). Oh, and 163 points in 162 playoff games going head to head against the likes of Sakic, Forsberg, Modano, Niewendyk, Roy and Belfour year in and year out throughout the Dead Puck era.

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I'm a bit biased since Fedorov is my all-time fave, but imho in his prime he was always the best overall player on the ice; if Pavel had played in the early-mid '90s he may have had similar numbers, but there's no way he matches up to Fed's speed and skating ability, though Pavel is probably a better stick-handler and has a stronger work ethic

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Fedorov left you cold? Were you watching his brother or Sergei? 91 of the Red Wings was electrifying.

This isn't the best argument because Datsyuk was still developing then, but pre-lockout Datsyuk used to try to deke his way through guys and come up short. I distinctly remember thinking he had skills but was overambitious. Back then as soon as he made a move, guys were latched on and watersking. So in a way his style is more suited for the current NHL. Fedorov had finess that transcended even the clutch and grab era.

I just was not impressed by him. Don't ask me why. I think it was because everyone thought he was the be-all and end-all, and I just got the feeling he was less than that. Just a personal thing, I guess.

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Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

Fedorov was the best. 2 way dynamo who could do it all. Slapshot? 100 mph beauty. Defenseman? Check. Hes the most gifted player perhaps of all time. Lemieux and Gretzky were more gifted offensively, but not all around.

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i think it depends on how you define "best". in terms of overall on ice performance, i would rank fedorov as number 1 and datsyuk second

but if attitude, work ethic and off ice stuff is factored in, i think datsyuk wins

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I love Dats and I'm damn glad he wears the winged wheel. He has pulled off some moves that are breath taking.

As far as the Dats vs Feds debate, to me they played an entirely different game. I don't see, nor have I ever seen Dats as a goal scorer.

Pasha is a play maker that has an amazing ability to create space and find his team mates in a way I've never seen anyone else do.

Fed's was an amazing power forward that could take the game over at will and put the puck in the net when we had to have a goal.

I see Dats as a play maker that can score, and Feds as a pure goal scorer that can do it all.

All this debate about goalie pads and league goals average during there era's proves nothing as to which is the better player.

To me comparing the two is like comparing a wide receiver to a corner back. They both can catch and run routes but have different roles.

Comparing goalie pads at the end of the day is just ones belief to try and prove there point.

In my OPINION if Feds had half the heart Yzerman had the greatest player of all time would be a debate between him,Gretzky, and Lemieux.

I do believe Fed's was the far better individual player, but they played different roles so i don't know how you'd pick one over the other.

Edited by cupcrazy

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