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Who is the Best Russian the Wings Have Ever Had?


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Poll: Best All-Time Russian Red Wing

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Whos is the all-time best Russian Red Wing

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#41 Johnz96

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:45 PM

Ok, will do. You provide me a link which shows the number of goals scored from 1990/1991 through 2002/2003 (to determine Fedorov's stats) and another which gives the goals from 2001-2002 to 2011-2012 (to determine Datsyuk's) and I'll do the math right here.

All you need is this. http://www.quanthock...erGame.php#Calc
Add up the average goals score per game during Fedorov's 13 years with the Wings and divide them by 13 and then add up the avg goals per game during Datsyuk's 10 yrs with the Wings and divide them by 10.
I would but I gotta git goin

Edited by Johnz96, 17 September 2012 - 03:46 PM.


#42 Crymson

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:49 PM

I have to give the edge to Fedorov due to his flair

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#43 Johnz96

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:19 PM

All you need is this. http://www.quanthock...erGame.php#Calc
Add up the average goals score per game during Fedorov's 13 years with the Wings and divide them by 13 and then add up the avg goals per game during Datsyuk's 10 yrs with the Wings and divide them by 10.
I would but I gotta git goin

By the a goal a game difference is a total of 1260 goals divided by 30 teams is 42 goal. Since Detroit has most often been a top 5 goal scoring team in most of the years that Fedorov or Datsyuk have played you can easily bump that up to 50. Fedorov and Datsyuk are in on more than a third of the Wings' goals so a goal a game difference in league scoring adds to about a 17 point difference for Fedorov or Datsyuk.
Another way to compare their stats and factor in the larger goalie equipment now is how many times were they top3, top5, top 10, and top 20. I think statistically considering the goalie equipment Datsyuk will have a slight advantage even though Fedorov had better teammates in the pre cap days
But I think the biggest advantage Datsyuk has is as a leader. I know he is a quiet but he sets an example of how to conduct oneself with class on and off the ice and he works hard to be the best he can be, one of the best conditioned athletes in the league he has made his deficiencies his strengths. His first year in the NHl he was weak and skinny and easily knocked off the puck (I loved watching him make plays as he was falling or sprawled out on the ice) terrible on face-offs (he won less than 40% of his face-offs his rookie year). He is the shiftiest most fun to watch hockey player I have ever seen
I am very surprised by the poll results, I thought he would walk away with it

#44 kipwinger

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:01 PM

All you need is this. http://www.quanthock...erGame.php#Calc
Add up the average goals score per game during Fedorov's 13 years with the Wings and divide them by 13 and then add up the avg goals per game during Datsyuk's 10 yrs with the Wings and divide them by 10.
I would but I gotta git goin


Again, you show me where to find the total number of goals scored league wide during Fedorov's Wings career, and then Datsyuk's and we'll do it. I cannot for the life of me, find one reputable list of all the goals scored from 90/91 until 02/03, and from 01/02 to 11/12.

Also, you wouldn't divide it by 13 as that would give you a goals per year total, not a goals per game total. You'd need to know how many games where played during Fedorov's Wings career and divide the total goals by that. But I'm fairly sure you just misspoke there.

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#45 Johnz96

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:14 PM

Again, you show me where to find the total number of goals scored league wide during Fedorov's Wings career, and then Datsyuk's and we'll do it. I cannot for the life of me, find one reputable list of all the goals scored from 90/91 until 02/03, and from 01/02 to 11/12.

Also, you wouldn't divide it by 13 as that would give you a goals per year total, not a goals per game total. You'd need to know how many games where played during Fedorov's Wings career and divide the total goals by that. But I'm fairly sure you just misspoke there.

I did the math in the 13 yrs that Fedorov played for the Wings the NHL averaged 6.094 goals a game in the 10 that Datsyuk has played so far the NHL averaged 5.494 goals per game a 0.6 difference or 738 goals per year divided by 30 teams =24.6 pump iy up to 30 because Detroit scores a lot more than the average team and because Datsyuk and Fedorov factor in in about 1/3 of the Wings goals, Fedorov should average 10 points more per season than Datsyuk to be equal factoring in the difference made by the goalie equipment. I will figure those averages shortly
In 13 seasons with the Wings, Fedorov was in the top 20 scorers 3x ( 93-94 he was 2nd, 95-96 he was 9th, and 02-03 he was 12th)
In 10 seasons with the Wings, Datsyuk was in the top 20 scorers 4x (05-06 he was 17th, 06-07, he was 15th 07-08 he was 4th and 08-09 he was 4th)
Slight edge Datsyuk statistically. But when you factor in better teammates for Fedorov in the cap free days and the fact that Datsyuk has won 3 Selkes to 2 for Fedorov and Datsyuk's class, quiet leadership, i really can't believe that there is any question

#46 Johnz96

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 06:32 PM

I did the math in the 13 yrs that Fedorov played for the Wings the NHL averaged 6.094 goals a game in the 10 that Datsyuk has played so far the NHL averaged 5.494 goals per game a 0.6 difference or 738 goals per year divided by 30 teams =24.6 pump iy up to 30 because Detroit scores a lot more than the average team and because Datsyuk and Fedorov factor in in about 1/3 of the Wings goals, Fedorov should average 10 points more per season than Datsyuk to be equal factoring in the difference made by the goalie equipment. I will figure those averages shortly
In 13 seasons with the Wings, Fedorov was in the top 20 scorers 3x ( 93-94 he was 2nd, 95-96 he was 9th, and 02-03 he was 12th)
In 10 seasons with the Wings, Datsyuk was in the top 20 scorers 4x (05-06 he was 17th, 06-07, he was 15th 07-08 he was 4th and 08-09 he was 4th)
Slight edge Datsyuk statistically. But when you factor in better teammates for Fedorov in the cap free days and the fact that Datsyuk has won 3 Selkes to 2 for Fedorov and Datsyuk's class, quiet leadership, i really can't believe that there is any question

Fedorov scored 954 points in 908 games with the Wings averaging 1.05 points per game or 86.1 points over 82 gmes
Datsyuk has scored 718 points in 732 games averaging 0.98 points per game or 80.43 over 82 games. Add 10 points per season to Datsyuk for the bigger goalie equipment difference and he is slightly ahead of Fedorov and you don't even need to factor any difference for goaltending equipment if you include Fed with other teams Datsyuk has a higher NHL PPG than Fedorov

Edited by Johnz96, 17 September 2012 - 06:33 PM.


#47 irishock

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:25 PM

Offensively as a whole- Even
Defensively- Pavel
Goal Scoring- Feds
Set up man- Pavel
Skater- Feds
Being an unselfish non-****** that won't be demanding a huge contract deal with a new CBA coming up that could bring a salary cap- Pavs

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#48 GMRwings1983

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 07:38 PM

Fedorov.

Just better numbers for both regular season and playoffs in a Wings uniform.

As slick and crafty as Datsyuk is, he doesn't have the speed or shot that Fedorov had. Sergei was more of a physical specimen and more of a star player to me.
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#49 amato

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:28 PM

Konstantinov. God, I wish he could've played a full career..

Datsyukian

Dat·syu·ki·an [dat-soo-kee-uh n]

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#50 Johnz96

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:41 PM

Fedorov.

Just better numbers for both regular season and playoffs in a Wings uniform.

As slick and crafty as Datsyuk is, he doesn't have the speed or shot that Fedorov had. Sergei was more of a physical specimen and more of a star player to me.

He had better numbers in his first 6 seasons because goalie equipment was smaller but as goalie equipment ballooned Fedorov's numbers dropped. Kelly Kisio has better numbers is he also better? Pierre Turgeon has better numbers than Fedorov. You can't compare today's numbers to numbers in the past because they use to have so much more net to shoot at.
Datsyuk doesn't have the speed, size or shot of Samuelsson

#51 egroen

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:47 PM

Subjective wording from the OP.
Fetisov is, IMO, the greatest Russian player of all-time... I voted for him.

As far as the greatest Russian player throughout their Wings career, it comes down to Fedorov and Datsyuk.... Which is a hard choice to make. Both are two-way monsters, but thus far I give the edge to Fedorov who always was a playoff dynamo, while Datsyuk has been more of a hit or miss.


Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#52 Red Wings Addict

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:04 PM

Fedorov. No question. And in my mind it's not even close. Or wait should I use the young whippersnapper internet acronym version of that?

Ok let me do that again.

Fedorov. AINEC.

#53 GMRwings1983

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:06 PM

He had better numbers in his first 6 seasons because goalie equipment was smaller but as goalie equipment ballooned Fedorov's numbers dropped. Kelly Kisio has better numbers is he also better? Pierre Turgeon has better numbers than Fedorov. You can't compare today's numbers to numbers in the past because they use to have so much more net to shoot at.
Datsyuk doesn't have the speed, size or shot of Samuelsson


Kisio and Turgeon don't have better numbers than Fedorov in the playoffs, nor did they make a bigger impact in their careers. I fail to see your point there. The Samuelsson jib is funny, but I wasn't just lauding Fedorov because he's a better physical specimen than Datsyuk. He utilized his skills to become a future Hall of Famer. I doubt Datsyuk is a Hall of Fame player at this point.

Goalie equipment has gotten smaller, but even so, Fedorov still had a better and more powerful shot than Datsyuk. He'd have scored more goals in any generation.

Both guys are complete players, but the things Fedorov did better than Pavel, he did by a greater margin, more so than the things Pavel can do better than Fedorov.

Subjective wording from the OP.
Fetisov is, IMO, the greatest Russian player of all-time... I voted for him.

As far as the greatest Russian player throughout their Wings career, it comes down to Fedorov and Datsyuk.... Which is a hard choice to make. Both are two-way monsters, but thus far I give the edge to Fedorov who always was a playoff dynamo, while Datsyuk has been more of a hit or miss.


Tretiak and Kharlamov are both better all-time than Fetisov, imo. I might even put some others ahead of him, but those two for sure.
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#54 egroen

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:56 PM

Tretiak and Kharlamov are both better all-time than Fetisov, imo. I might even put some others ahead of him, but those two for sure.


Tretiak never distanced himself from Dryden or Holacek in his time and Kharlomov was a romantic flash in the pan who is well behind Makarov and only amongst numerous other talented Russian forwards. Fetisov, the "Russian Bobby Orr" is alone amongst his peers in international competition and accolades, while also proving his place in the NHL during his twilight years.

Goalies:
Hasek
Roy
Sawchuk
Plante
Hall

Tretiak is in the discussion with Brodeur, Dryden, Holachek, Durnam, Benedict and a couple others to round out the top 10 of all-time.

Defensemen:
Orr
Harvey
Bourque
Lidstrom
Shore

With Potvin, Fetisov, Kelly and Robinson rounding out the argument for #6.

There is an argument for Fetisov or Tretiak as the greatest Russian player of all-time.... Kharlomov is far, far behind.
Red Kelly #4 and Larry Aurie #6 belong in the rafters!!!

"For my game, I don't need to score the goal," Konstantinov once explained. "I need someone to start thinking about me and forgetting about scoring goals."

#55 Nev

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:28 AM

Tough choice between Feds and Dats.....Pavel has given me more moments of pure joy, more moments of sheer unaldulterated "did he just do that?", made me smile more than any other sportsman in history. That playoff game he took over against Phoenix, his play when we were 0-3 down against San Jose and we were lucky to have 0. But I've got to say, overall, Fedorov was better. He burst into the league as a youngster and wasn't a late bloomer like Pav, he always produced in the playoffs in an era when the wings were up against 2 powerhouse franchises every year. He was bigger, he was quicker and he had a great slapper and one-timer.
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#56 MulesWillFly93

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:48 AM

I might be biased, I might not be - but I'll vote for Datsyuk every time.

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#57 KrazyGangsta

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 06:49 AM

Having watched both play, I'd have to go with Federov. I loved watching this guy fly on the ice. Datsyuk is up there as well but Federov is a notch above. Federov was faster then Datsyuk and has a harder slapshop. Federov has as good as hands as Datsyuk does.

It doesn't really matter what era they played in, I mean if Federov was playing in the NHL now without all the hooking and grabbing he would probably be even better then he was in his time.

#58 Johnz96

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 07:36 AM

Having watched both play, I'd have to go with Federov. I loved watching this guy fly on the ice. Datsyuk is up there as well but Federov is a notch above. Federov was faster then Datsyuk and has a harder slapshop. Federov has as good as hands as Datsyuk does.

It doesn't really matter what era they played in, I mean if Federov was playing in the NHL now without all the hooking and grabbing he would probably be even better then he was in his time.

After his first 6 seasons when the goalie equipment got really big he has only 1 season in which he scored more than a point a game.
If Datsyuk had 6 seasons with a lot more net to shoot at their PPGs wouldn't even be close

Tough choice between Feds and Dats.....Pavel has given me more moments of pure joy, more moments of sheer unaldulterated "did he just do that?", made me smile more than any other sportsman in history. That playoff game he took over against Phoenix, his play when we were 0-3 down against San Jose and we were lucky to have 0. But I've got to say, overall, Fedorov was better. He burst into the league as a youngster and wasn't a late bloomer like Pav, he always produced in the playoffs in an era when the wings were up against 2 powerhouse franchises every year. He was bigger, he was quicker and he had a great slapper and one-timer.

Fedorov burst into the league as a youngster because we had a weak team and he was afforded a lot of ice-time. Datsyuk was a late bloomer because we had a power house team and he mostly played on the 4th line with not much PP time

#59 sibiriak

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:51 AM

I love watching Pavel play and I admire him as a person, but if I were a GM putting a team together, I would take Sergei first. He got the Hart over Lemieux, Jagr and Gretzky for crissakes!

#60 GMRwings1983

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 10:40 AM

Tretiak never distanced himself from Dryden or Holacek in his time and Kharlomov was a romantic flash in the pan who is well behind Makarov and only amongst numerous other talented Russian forwards. Fetisov, the "Russian Bobby Orr" is alone amongst his peers in international competition and accolades, while also proving his place in the NHL during his twilight years.

Goalies:
Hasek
Roy
Sawchuk
Plante
Hall

Tretiak is in the discussion with Brodeur, Dryden, Holachek, Durnam, Benedict and a couple others to round out the top 10 of all-time.

Defensemen:
Orr
Harvey
Bourque
Lidstrom
Shore

With Potvin, Fetisov, Kelly and Robinson rounding out the argument for #6.

There is an argument for Fetisov or Tretiak as the greatest Russian player of all-time.... Kharlomov is far, far behind.


You're entitled to your opinion, but I wouldn't call Kharlamov a "romantic flash in the pan". I've never heard anyone but you say he was behind Makarov. He influenced a generation of Russian forwards and would have been dominant in the NHL, much like he was in the Summit Series.
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