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Who is the Best Russian the Wings Have Ever Had?


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Poll: Best All-Time Russian Red Wing

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Whos is the all-time best Russian Red Wing

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#61 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 11:22 AM

After his first 6 seasons when the goalie equipment got really big he has only 1 season in which he scored more than a point a game.
If Datsyuk had 6 seasons with a lot more net to shoot at their PPGs wouldn't even be close


Fedorov burst into the league as a youngster because we had a weak team and he was afforded a lot of ice-time. Datsyuk was a late bloomer because we had a power house team and he mostly played on the 4th line with not much PP time

It's not just about PPG. In his prime Fedorov was dominant in a way Datsyuk only is on occasion. And that's hardly a knock on Dats.


I'd also have to disagree with the people saying Datsyuk is better defensively. Fedorov was a great two way forward and actually played as a defenseman too. Dats has more Selke's, but actually playing as a defenseman also counts for being good defensively in my book.

#62 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 11:41 AM

Max Kuznetsov or Yuri Butsayev. Maybe Yan Golubovsky.
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#63 GMRwings1983

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:40 PM

Max Kuznetsov or Yuri Butsayev. Maybe Yan Golubovsky.


Does Grigorenko count?
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#64 Johnz96

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:50 PM

Having watched both play, I'd have to go with Federov. I loved watching this guy fly on the ice. Datsyuk is up there as well but Federov is a notch above. Federov was faster then Datsyuk and has a harder slapshop. Federov has as good as hands as Datsyuk does.

It doesn't really matter what era they played in, I mean if Federov was playing in the NHL now without all the hooking and grabbing he would probably be even better then he was in his time.

The stats would say otherwise. in his first 6 years when the NHL allowed 6.69 goals a game Fedorov scored 529 points in 432 games, a 1.22 PPG (100.4 pace over 82 games) but when the goalie equipment ballooned Fedorov's production plummeted. In his next 7 years when the NHL allowed 5.57 goals a game (much closer to the 5.494 allowed during Datsyuk's career), Fedorov scored 425 points in 477 games a 0.89 PPG (72.98 pace over 82 games which is significantly lower than Datsyuk's 0.98 PPG or 80.43 pace over 82 games )
And his totals plummeted even further when he left the Wings at the age of 32 (younger than Datsyuk is now)

Edited by Johnz96, 18 September 2012 - 02:52 PM.


#65 Johnz96

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:01 PM

It's not just about PPG. In his prime Fedorov was dominant in a way Datsyuk only is on occasion. And that's hardly a knock on Dats.


I'd also have to disagree with the people saying Datsyuk is better defensively. Fedorov was a great two way forward and actually played as a defenseman too. Dats has more Selke's, but actually playing as a defenseman also counts for being good defensively in my book.

I agree it's not about the PPG, there is so much more to stats other than a players ability to produce and his effort like the superior teammates Fedorov had on the cap free Wings teams.
I'll will have to agree to disagree with you on this one as I feel that Datsyuk is dominant in a way that Fedorov was only on occasion and that is not a knock against Fedorov. Dandenault played D too. Datsyuk would be great on D also but center is much more appropriate for him. So many people wax poetic about Fedorov but there was a time around the turn of the century when he was regarded by a lot of Re Wings fans much like the much maligned Franzen is now (unfair in my opinion in both cases)
Fedorov was one of the best of his era, Datsyuk IS arguably the best of his

Edited by Johnz96, 18 September 2012 - 03:08 PM.


#66 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:44 PM

I agree it's not about the PPG, there is so much more to stats other than a players ability to produce and his effort like the superior teammates Fedorov had on the cap free Wings teams.
I'll will have to agree to disagree with you on this one as I feel that Datsyuk is dominant in a way that Fedorov was only on occasion and that is not a knock against Fedorov. Dandenault played D too. Datsyuk would be great on D also but center is much more appropriate for him. So many people wax poetic about Fedorov but there was a time around the turn of the century when he was regarded by a lot of Re Wings fans much like the much maligned Franzen is now (unfair in my opinion in both cases)
Fedorov was one of the best of his era, Datsyuk IS arguably the best of his

Like I said, it's really a matter of opinion, but I think you're overselling Datsyuk and underselling Feds in that last sentence.

Yes Dandenault played D, but he didn't dominate on offense and then turn into a good defenseman too. There's the famous Bowman quote about Sergei playing D.

If you're talking about intangibles Datsyuk absolutely has a better attitude and seems like a better teammate off the ice. As I've said, having watched them both if I'm comparing Fedorov in his prime and Datsyuk in his prime, it's Fedorov. Sergei could play center, wing, defense. He was arguably best all around player of his era. Datsyuk is an awesome player, but Fedorov's peak was higher.

#67 Dabura

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:58 PM

Fedorov

It's not just that he was dominant. On any given night, prime-years Fedorov could dominate you in any number of ways, on any number of levels, donning any number of different hats over the course of the game. Euro puck-wizard (skill, finesse). Physically imposing power-forward type. Selke winner. Goal-scorer. Playmaker. Defenseman....

Don't Toews me, bro!


#68 Nev

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 04:08 PM

Fedorov burst into the league as a youngster because we had a weak team and he was afforded a lot of ice-time. Datsyuk was a late bloomer because we had a power house team and he mostly played on the 4th line with not much PP time


Whilst I cannot dispute that the rookie Fedorov had less in front of him (Yzerman) than the rookie Datsyuk (Yzerman, Fedorov, Larionov, even Draper) that misses the point. Fedorov at 21 was a FAR better player than Datsyuk. The only reason Sergei wasn't in the NHL at 18 or 19 was because of the Iron Curtain, also the reason he was a 4th round pick and not a top-5 pick as his talent deserved. He scored 79 points his rookie year - roster depth and higher scoring era notwithstanding, it took Pavel till his 5th season in the NHL to top that. There's nothing wrong per se with being a late bloomer, most players are, its usually only lottery picks like Crosby, Malkin etc who can come in at 18 or 19 and perform like stars.

When Pavel arrived, he was a shy, undersized kid - outstanding stickhandling ability that had everyones eyes popping out, but no-one, no-one predicted the 2-way beast he would become. How much of that was opportunity, maturity, increasing strength, confidence, desire, Babcock's coaching, who knows? The fact is Pavel was 27 before he had a season that could be compared to Sergei. At 27 Feds had won 2 Selke's, a Hart and was a 3-time All-Star.

Fedorov was bigger, stronger, faster, had a better slap-shot, a better one-timer, as good defensively and almost as good a stickhandler (but no-one compares to Pav). Oh, and 163 points in 162 playoff games going head to head against the likes of Sakic, Forsberg, Modano, Niewendyk, Roy and Belfour year in and year out throughout the Dead Puck era.
"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#69 datterberg1340

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 07:59 PM

I'm a bit biased since Fedorov is my all-time fave, but imho in his prime he was always the best overall player on the ice; if Pavel had played in the early-mid '90s he may have had similar numbers, but there's no way he matches up to Fed's speed and skating ability, though Pavel is probably a better stick-handler and has a stronger work ethic

#70 Kira

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 08:52 PM

Fedorov left you cold? Were you watching his brother or Sergei? 91 of the Red Wings was electrifying.

This isn't the best argument because Datsyuk was still developing then, but pre-lockout Datsyuk used to try to deke his way through guys and come up short. I distinctly remember thinking he had skills but was overambitious. Back then as soon as he made a move, guys were latched on and watersking. So in a way his style is more suited for the current NHL. Fedorov had finess that transcended even the clutch and grab era.


I just was not impressed by him. Don't ask me why. I think it was because everyone thought he was the be-all and end-all, and I just got the feeling he was less than that. Just a personal thing, I guess.
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#71 The Axe

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:45 PM

Fedorov was the best. 2 way dynamo who could do it all. Slapshot? 100 mph beauty. Defenseman? Check. Hes the most gifted player perhaps of all time. Lemieux and Gretzky were more gifted offensively, but not all around.

#72 Seraph

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 11:29 PM

Some of our Russians on display.


Edited by The Nephilim, 18 September 2012 - 11:29 PM.

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#73 chances14

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:45 AM

i think it depends on how you define "best". in terms of overall on ice performance, i would rank fedorov as number 1 and datsyuk second

but if attitude, work ethic and off ice stuff is factored in, i think datsyuk wins

#74 cupcrazy

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 02:42 AM

I love Dats and I'm damn glad he wears the winged wheel. He has pulled off some moves that are breath taking.

As far as the Dats vs Feds debate, to me they played an entirely different game. I don't see, nor have I ever seen Dats as a goal scorer.

Pasha is a play maker that has an amazing ability to create space and find his team mates in a way I've never seen anyone else do.

Fed's was an amazing power forward that could take the game over at will and put the puck in the net when we had to have a goal.

I see Dats as a play maker that can score, and Feds as a pure goal scorer that can do it all.

All this debate about goalie pads and league goals average during there era's proves nothing as to which is the better player.

To me comparing the two is like comparing a wide receiver to a corner back. They both can catch and run routes but have different roles.

Comparing goalie pads at the end of the day is just ones belief to try and prove there point.

In my OPINION if Feds had half the heart Yzerman had the greatest player of all time would be a debate between him,Gretzky, and Lemieux.

I do believe Fed's was the far better individual player, but they played different roles so i don't know how you'd pick one over the other.

Edited by cupcrazy, 19 September 2012 - 02:51 AM.

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#75 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:21 AM

We've all seen the jaw-dropping things Dats can do, but for those who are too young or don't remember, here's some pretty good highlights from Fedorov.



#76 shdwx14

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:49 AM

I love Dats and I think he is one of the best current players in the world, But I remember how much speed and power Feds had still. He could change/win games in a moment. The guy was amazing as is Dats, but of the two I def have to give it to Fedorov.

#77 cupcrazy

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 01:47 PM

We've all seen the jaw-dropping things Dats can do, but for those who are too young or don't remember, here's some pretty good highlights from Fedorov.


To me the one thing that Fedorov could do that I've yet to see Pavel do consistently is power through with guys all over him. We've all seen Pavel make a quick cut, a quick dangle and leave the defence in there tracks.

I have to say thought as much as I admire Datsyuk when two or more players swarm him and play him tight he struggles at times to make things happen. No doubt one on one the guy is rarely stopped. Pavel needs space, where Fedorov just needed the damn puck.

Fedorov might not of been as flash as often as Datsyuk but when he tried he was strong enough to power through multiple defenders in ways Datsyuk just couldn't do. Fedorov scored with guys all over him.

How awesome would it have been to have them both in there prime at the same time in the winged wheel? It would have been magic out there......

I agree harold, if I was forced to choose it would be Feds 7 days a week and twice on Sunday.
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#78 toby91_ca

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 03:02 PM

To me, it isn't even close and it's not a knock on Datsyuk, I just think Fedorov was that good.

I can understand why this board has closer voting than I would have expected though. I wonder how much of Fedorov's career those who voted for Datsyuk saw. I have been able to see pretty much every game both of these guys have played in the NHL and a lot internationally as well and while Fedorov declined in the later stages of his career, he was unbelievable in his prime.

#79 Ally

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 06:39 PM

I couldn't vote between the two (Federov and Datsyuk). Looking at stats, Fedorov should win, thinking about which player gives me goosebumps with the things he does, Datsyuk wins. I'm calling it a tie.

 
"Everything he does is exciting to watch.” -Holmstrom describes Datsyuk


#80 Crymson

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 06:56 PM

The Wings have had the good fortune to have two superlative Russian players. Fedorov was without a doubt the more dominant and dynamic player. Datsyuk is, arguably, a better player defensively, and he does have better hands, but is not the equal of Fedorov in the latter's prime. I only wish that we could have seen both of them play together at their peaks.





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