125 replies to this topic

[Dabura]

Bias is a noun, people.

[toby91_ca]

hhahahaha am I really seeing people getting mad at Jim for telling the cold hard truth on how the owners really feel about the players? Lets go ask some folks who work in corp america how they feel at their jobs. It is a business for these owners nothing more. They are there to make money period. If you guys didn't know that or believe that then you either own your own business and dont' want to be called out with all the other cattle owners or you haven't taken the Red Pill yet and still don't know the painful truth of reality.

I don't know if being mad or angry at him is the correct way to put it. From my perspective, if I was one of those players heading over to Europe to play, I'd probably be a little upset about the comments, but I think the biggest problem is simply the fact that is was incredibly stupid of him to make the comments he made when both sides are trying to negotiate a labour agreement.

[puckbags]

Some of the stuff he said was refreshing to hear..some was just dumb as s***. Opinions are like assholes and to be honest this has just turned into a never ending loop of people blowing smoke up other peoples asses. The lockout 8 years ago was brought about because of billionaire owners complaining about escalating salaries and huge operating costs. New CBA was done and everything seemed good until they started to find loopholes and raising the cap every year ( i know it was based on revenue). Put a salary cap in place and make it stick for 5-10 years and then re entertain the idea of it going up or down. As Jimmy D said the owners WILL NOT lose in this process and it wont be the Shea Webers and Zach Parises who will be anxious to get back to work..it will be the Paul Bisonette's and the Drew Miller's who will start to miss their pay cheques in the near future. Players are greedy but the owners are greedier...you don't get to be billionaires by giving in to people. It's a fine line between being greedy and making shrewd smart business moves. I'll enjoy watching my local WHL team play while these d bags figure out how to stroke each others egos some more.

[toby91_ca]

Some of the stuff he said was refreshing to hear..some was just dumb as s***. Opinions are like assholes and to be honest this has just turned into a never ending loop of people blowing smoke up other peoples asses. The lockout 8 years ago was brought about because of billionaire owners complaining about escalating salaries and huge operating costs. New CBA was done and everything seemed good until they started to find loopholes and raising the cap every year ( i know it was based on revenue). Put a salary cap in place and make it stick for 5-10 years and then re entertain the idea of it going up or down. As Jimmy D said the owners WILL NOT lose in this process and it wont be the Shea Webers and Zach Parises who will be anxious to get back to work..it will be the Paul Bisonette's and the Drew Miller's who will start to miss their pay cheques in the near future. Players are greedy but the owners are greedier...you don't get to be billionaires by giving in to people. It's a fine line between being greedy and making shrewd smart business moves. I'll enjoy watching my local WHL team play while these d bags figure out how to stroke each others egos some more.

Loopholes and raising cap each year wasn't the problem. With player salaries linked to total revenues, the problem is when 10 teams contribute the most to signficantly growing revenues, while the bottom teams' revenues don't grow much, but their payrolls grow significantly.

The is the biggest problem I have with the NHL's current solution. Asking for a rollback and a reduction in percentage to players will be a quick fix now, but what happens when the revenues increase again but only because the top teams are pushing the totals higher and not the lower teams? How does the NHL's solution fix that potential problem (or do they think they'll just get a one time fix again when the CBA expires again?)

[RedWingsDad]

I really think the emphasis on the ranch and cows analogy is getting out of hand. People seem to be warping that comment to suit their own viewpoint. It was a *loose* analogy... and many disregard the fact that Jimmy D included himself as one of the cows in that analogy. Obviously, if he included himself in that group.... he didn't mean it to be taken as derogatory.

lol, cows....

[hillbillywingsfan]

I really think the emphasis on the ranch and cows analogy is getting out of hand. People seem to be warping that comment to suit their own viewpoint. It was a *loose* analogy... and many disregard the fact that Jimmy D included himself as one of the cows in that analogy. Obviously, if he included himself in that group.... he didn't mean it to be taken as derogatory.

lol, cows....

But that analogy and ones similar have been used to talk about how people feel working in corporate america for how long now? It's the truth. And I understand like I said before. It sucks..it really does but to be honest with you these owners made their billions before having hockey teams....and they will have their billions after these hockey teams. They fit the bill for the "pastures" for the cows to play in,the Chevy trucks with cattle racks that take each cow to the 4H shows, live stock auctions and other fields to play in. They pay for the silage corn, alfalfa fields that are cut and bailed/rolled for feed. They pay for in house vets to take care of all the cows whether they are sick or not .

I am in big corp america...I have a badge number that is sequential in the number of people that came before me. Guess how many numbers I have in it.......6. Yeah I don't feel like cattle at all.=)

[RedWingsDad]

But that analogy and ones similar have been used to talk about how people feel working in corporate america for how long now? It's the truth. And I understand like I said before. It sucks..it really does but to be honest with you these owners made their billions before having hockey teams....and they will have their billions after these hockey teams. They fit the bill for the "pastures" for the cows to play in,the Chevy trucks with cattle racks that take each cow to the 4H shows, live stock auctions and other fields to play in. They pay for the silage corn, alfalfa fields that are cut and bailed/rolled for feed. They pay for in house vets to take care of all the cows whether they are sick or not .

I am in big corp america...I have a badge number that is sequential in the number of people that came before me. Guess how many numbers I have in it.......6. Yeah I don't feel like cattle at all.=)

ha ha yeah, good points. I did not mean that the analogy had no merit at all. It just kind of irks me that people are seemingly focusing on it as a slur, but never mention that Jimmy D put himself in that group.

[Dabura]

I don't think anyone's arguing that what JD said, the analogy, is not true. It's just, Why say it now? Why do that? It's boneheaded.

[hillbillywingsfan]

I don't think anyone's arguing that what JD said, the analogy, is not true. It's just, Why say it now? Why do that? It's boneheaded.

To be honest with you. I'm sure it has all been worse than what the league and players really let on even the start of last season when they started talking about it coming up. You just got a glimpse probably of what is really being said and not hidden away from the real cattle which are the fans. A peak behind the curtain so to speak.

ha ha yeah, good points. I did not mean that the analogy had no merit at all. It just kind of irks me that people are seemingly focusing on it as a slur, but never mention that Jimmy D put himself in that group.

Sorry btw. I know I keep talking about cows and cattle and all that...just get me started talking about cows and farms and all that and the hillbilly comes out in me. Start thinking about our family farm and going back there away from all this hustle and bustle hahahahah That's where I go to slow down so i get a little carried away=)

[Buppy]

Ranchers own the cattle. Team owners do not own the players. I hope the owners don't actually think they do.

[esteef]

Ranchers own the cattle. Team owners do not own the players. I hope the owners don't actually think they do.

But the team owners do own the best "ranches", and these "cattle" know it.

esteef

[55fan]

The sad part is that these guys have had their insurance canceled and now Jimmy D makes these infuriating comments. Who's going to pay for their Mad Cow treatments?

Yes, I'm a rural chick. I know about BSE and that it is not an emotional issue. It was a joke.

[frankgrimes]

How about all these pro owners people just pay a premium fee to see/watch the owners play hockey, if the players are only cottles?!

I for one want to see the best athletes getting what they are worth and both sides agreed to some deals during the last weeks, months or even years. I am sure a league with the owners playing hockey and the effing midget as a ref would sell out every game.

[evilmrt]

[haroldsnepsts]

1. Really? Sure seems like the owners own or control the teams and arenas, no? Kind of like a rancher owns and controls the ranch and everything on it.

2. People do shell out tons of money for leather goods, beef, dog treats, etc. i.e. the cows are the product too. Kind of like the players in the NHL.

3. This is true. It doesn't help the owners, and probably wasn't the best thing to say. However, Selanne and various other players bagging on the owners/Daly/Bettman is also stupid, and helps keep the sides at odds. But everyone applauds the players and Fehr, so what can you do?

1) That doesn't make it a fact. Thinking that analogy is accurate is an opinion. Comparing players to cattle hardly makes sense, other than as an insult. Unless cattle can decide to go to ranches in Europe and graze?

2) In the broadest sense yes they are both product, but that hardly makes it a good analogy. Hockey players are highly skilled, elite level talent and ultimately entertainers. Through their skill they generate a massive amount of revenue besides just tickets to games. Television contracts, marketing, video games, merchandise, concessions, parking, etc. Cows are ground up and eaten.

3) People probably applaud Selanne because the owners are being the bigger idiots in this mess. And I haven't heard any of the NHLPA side say anything as stupid as comparing the players to cattle.

[hillbillywingsfan]

Then after a few months the NHLPA will be more like this

[drwscc]

2) In the broadest sense yes they are both product, but that hardly makes it a good analogy. Hockey players are highly skilled, elite level talent and ultimately entertainers. Through their skill they generate a massive amount of revenue besides just tickets to games. Television contracts, marketing, video games, merchandise, concessions, parking, etc. Cows are ground up and eaten.

True, it kind of falls apart when you think that without the rancher, the cows live a nice long life, and without the owners, the players have to either play in lower leagues/go play overseas or go get real jobs.

[Pskov Wings Fan]

hhahahaha am I really seeing people getting mad at Jim for telling the cold hard truth on how the owners really feel about the players? Lets go ask some folks who work in corp america how they feel at their jobs. It is a business for these owners nothing more. They are there to make money period. If you guys didn't know that or believe that then you either own your own business and dont' want to be called out with all the other cattle owners or you haven't taken the Red Pill yet and still don't know the painful truth of reality.

It is true enough for an average employee because there exists a large enough pool of people with similar skills to provide downward pressure on wages. Not so much for elite hockey players. There are no comparable replacement players to be found. Because of that players got a reasonably strong bargaining position and regardless of what owners think they do not have the leverage to make players comply with their every demand.

So I do not think Jimmy D is in charge as much as he thinks he is. Maybe he got great relationship with Red Wings players and they would laugh about it over a beer or something. Otherwise there might be some awkward moments later on.

[hillbillywingsfan]

It is true enough for an average employee because there exists a large enough pool of people with similar skills to provide downward pressure on wages. Not so much for elite hockey players. There are no comparable replacement players to be found. Because of that players got a reasonably strong bargaining position and regardless of what owners think they do not have the leverage to make players comply with their every demand.

So I do not think Jimmy D is in charge as much as he thinks he is. Maybe he got great relationship with Red Wings players and they would laugh about it over a beer or something. Otherwise there might be some awkward moments later on.

But the thing is that I think people seem to forget is that these owners were so rich that they went out just for the fun of it or maybe they saw a good investment of some of their money and bought an NHL team....They are holding all the chips and I think they got to a point where they didn't want it to end up like the NBA or the NFL or heck even baseball now where all you had was a bunch of spoiled players demanding and getting 100's of millions of dollars when they aren't worth that. Why is it now I'm seeing comments that the AHL is so much better because no big money is involved. Or I see people talking about how college football is sooo much better because the players are playing their hearts out for the game and not the big money...to a point because ncaa players are playing for those big contracts but you see my point.

[sibiriak]

But the thing is that I think people seem to forget is that these owners were so rich that they went out just for the fun of it or maybe they saw a good investment of some of their money and bought an NHL team....They are holding all the chips and I think they got to a point where they didn't want it to end up like the NBA or the NFL or heck even baseball now where all you had was a bunch of spoiled players demanding and getting 100's of millions of dollars when they aren't worth that. Why is it now I'm seeing comments that the AHL is so much better because no big money is involved. Or I see people talking about how college football is sooo much better because the players are playing their hearts out for the game and not the big money...to a point because ncaa players are playing for those big contracts but you see my point.

Players may demand whatever they want, but it's the owners competing against each other for top talent that make the humongous contracts possible in all the pro sports. If the owners didn't try to outbid each other, the players would have no leverage. The salaries are NOT the players doing. It is the OWNERS. So instead of making the players take a pay cut to bail out the reckless owners, who gave out outrageous contracts, the NHL should be working on a system that prevents owners from overspending, such as luxury tax, revenue sharing, max contract amount and length, tying salary cap to revenue for each team. Otherwise we'll be at this again at the end of the next CBA, whatever the cuts the players will be forced to take now.