102 replies to this topic

[Jersey Wing]

Gary Bettman admitted he'd never been to an NHL game in his life before becoming commissioner and has run the NHL like a guy who had never been to an NHL game before becoming Commissioner.

Any time Bettman says he feels for the fans or mentions the fans being the real losers in his lockout how would he know? He's not an NHL fan.

Edited by Jersey Wing, 08 October 2012 - 06:00 PM.

[ami]

a.) this is an owners lockout. ...

True. There is no such thing as 'players lockout'

a.) .... The players and NHLPA would have been willing to play under the old/temporary CBA

True, as it guarantees they keep getting their paychecks. Of course, they have. Who wouldn't want to receive paychecks while doing their jobs?!

However, the really important thing here is that businesses who pays these checks are loosing money and at some point of time won't be able to pay these checks anymore. and this point is not far away.

b.) midget and owners are responsible for placing teams into non hockey areas

I have to agree with you on this, provided you meant owner were being way too risky businesswise.

c.) what the hell is this? dictationship how about the free speech? Z isn't the only one who is RIGHTFULLY fed up with a guy making 8 million a year without any athletic skills at all so are Toews, Crosby, Selanne

I'd suggest you'd take Logic 101 course. For some reason, you accept owners assesment and willingness to pay $8 mln. to Toews, Crosby, Selanne etc., but won't agree with them paying Bettmen...

Anyway, it is not you or Z who pays, but businesses who are earning these money and that's why they are the once who decides.

On the other hand, Z's paying Fehr. And Fehr has failed to do what he was hired (by Z) to do. And now Z's complaining about everything, but Fehr... It sounds weird, doesn't it. As if he would compain that opposing team had won because they cheated all the way, while Z's team had played like a crap...

d.) I'd suggest reading Fehrs interview he gave a clear indication of how things really are instead of avoiding the tough ones like a certain commissioner

I have. And I don't believe him.

Why on the Earth would you believe this charachter Fehr, who knows nothing about hockey and has nothing to do with hockey and, on the other side, you would not believe Jim Devellano who has been living hockey all his live and has been running professional hockey organization for a long long time and knows everything about hockey? Why exactly?

Logic 101 may help.

[Wing Across The Pond]

and who do you think pays the players?

The owners do of course. Fans give money to the owners, owners pay the players in part with that money

Without the fans, the owners and players don't even have 3.3 billion dollars in revenue to argue about.

Fans rarely give money to owners. Large chunks of that cash you gave for your jersey goes to Reebok, a large chunk of the ten buck you buy a beer with goes to Miller, etc. You think the Wings organisation get these things for free? Of course not. They buy them at wholesale prices and sell them for a bit of a profit. That's just consumer business. Tickets are similar in that a large chunk of revenue will go towards upkeep of the Joe, casual staff such as security and refreshment vendors, and rarely on player wages.

If you want to make a big fuss about who pays the players salary then cry for all the investors like Little Caesars, or Fox, or Amway, or any of the other corporate sponsors who pump money into this team which the organisation can freely spend on player acquisitions. Fan money goes so far as paying for an organisations retail division if you will, so cry when someone doesn't smile when they give you a beer or a pretzel, that's fine. But it can't really be claimed that fan money pays players as there really isn't enough fan money to do that. Case in point: if fans start to stay away from games, there is less of a need for retail staff - take in less money but spend less as well, it balances out. The problem with teams losing money isn't the fan base or teams like New Jersey wouldn't be in that situation. It's BIG money they have problems with.

Edited by Wing Across The Pond, 09 October 2012 - 06:43 AM.

[cusimano_brothers]

If he didn't get comped, Uncle Gary probably wouldn't go to see a hockey game even if they played in his back yard.

[drwscc]

and Fehr would? Please.

[esteef]

I heard Bettman pees the bed.

esteef

[chances14]

Fans rarely give money to owners. Large chunks of that cash you gave for your jersey goes to Reebok, a large chunk of the ten buck you buy a beer with goes to Miller, etc. You think the Wings organisation get these things for free? Of course not. They buy them at wholesale prices and sell them for a bit of a profit. That's just consumer business. Tickets are similar in that a large chunk of revenue will go towards upkeep of the Joe, casual staff such as security and refreshment vendors, and rarely on player wages.

If you want to make a big fuss about who pays the players salary then cry for all the investors like Little Caesars, or Fox, or Amway, or any of the other corporate sponsors who pump money into this team which the organisation can freely spend on player acquisitions. Fan money goes so far as paying for an organisations retail division if you will, so cry when someone doesn't smile when they give you a beer or a pretzel, that's fine. But it can't really be claimed that fan money pays players as there really isn't enough fan money to do that. Case in point: if fans start to stay away from games, there is less of a need for retail staff - take in less money but spend less as well, it balances out. The problem with teams losing money isn't the fan base or teams like New Jersey wouldn't be in that situation. It's BIG money they have problems with.

lack of fan support IS part of the problem. New Jersey, columbus, nashville, phoenix, atlanta before they moved to winninpeg, have all ranked in the bottom 10 of attendance every year since the lockout. so while it's not the only problem with these teams, it certainly is a part of it.

anyways back to the point in hand. Without the fans, there would be no corporate sponsors or tv deals. what company would want to sponsor or televise a league that nobody watches or cares about? do you honestly think that if there were no NHL fans, that the league would have made 3.3 billion dollars last year? i don't think so.

and if the league doesn't make money, how would they be able to afford to pay these players millions of dollars?

[up2here]

Blaming Bettman is easy. He's annoying to look at (Very weasel-like), annoying to listen to and hes been around for 3 lock-outs/strikes. The problem is that its not really accurate. He is employed by the owners and does as they want him to do. I'm sure Gary has a lot of influence on some owners but its certianly at least a shared blame.

I am frankly very fed-up with both sides and I am seriously considering abandoning watching NHL hockey all together. The owners signed all these players to all these ridiculous contracts and are now crying about the very contracts they signed. Meanwhile the players seem to have lost touch with reality. They say they wont take less money but then sign contracts to play in Europe for mere fractions of what they were making in the NHL. The dollars they are splitting up would be like me and Esteef choosing who gets the Ferrari and who gets the Lamborghini.

Both sides need to grow the f%^k up, stop being so astronomically f%^king stupid and figure this out before they start losing REAL hockey fans.

[esteef]

Agree, but as a huge Magnum P.I. fan, I would totally get the Ferrari dood.



esteef

[sleepwalker]

a large chunk of the ten buck you buy a beer with goes to Miller

I hate to nitpick on something off topic, but thats not true. A keg of Miller sells at RETAIL for $100, and appx $70-80 wholesale (ie. to bars, restaurants, hockey rinks, etc) and contains about 165 12oz servings. You can do the math and figure out how much bars, restaurants, sports venues, etc are making off of it.

Miller is actually only making a few cents per beer after expenses. They make their money by moving large volumes. Everyone else in the chain makes a lot more off the beer per ounce than the actual brewers do.

[kipwinger]

I heard Bettman pees the bed.

esteef

He's also the cause of global warming.

[Kira]

Henrik says he should be fired?? Preach to the choir, pal...and would we that we could.

[Wing Across The Pond]

lack of fan support IS part of the problem. New Jersey, columbus, nashville, phoenix, atlanta before they moved to winninpeg, have all ranked in the bottom 10 of attendance every year since the lockout. so while it's not the only problem with these teams, it certainly is a part of it.

anyways back to the point in hand. Without the fans, there would be no corporate sponsors or tv deals. what company would want to sponsor or televise a league that nobody watches or cares about? do you honestly think that if there were no NHL fans, that the league would have made 3.3 billion dollars last year? i don't think so.

and if the league doesn't make money, how would they be able to afford to pay these players millions of dollars?

I agree completely, and it's a better way of making the argument but just to clarify, wasn't saying lack of fans wasn't an issue, just that fan money didn't pay players. If anything I was being picky and pedantic But yes totally agree without the fans there is no sponsorship which WOULD pay wages. It also has to do with the fact that the league probably doesn't do very much market research when it comes to expansion teams, but probably looks more at geography and at locations where there aren't any teams for a good distance (Phoenix for example), trying to spread the wealth almost, when any idiot would know that Winnipeg had been wanting a team since the original Jets left and some other cities would really benefit from a good sports team (perhaps Seattle which would be close enough for a big US/Canadian rivalry with Vancouver and has dedicated sports fans already). I have nothing against Bettman trying to boost teams and help them survive in the league, but I don't want him basically running them to save face from them folding in poor markets. Move to another city and try again.

I hate to nitpick on something off topic, but thats not true. A keg of Miller sells at RETAIL for $100, and appx $70-80 wholesale (ie. to bars, restaurants, hockey rinks, etc) and contains about 165 12oz servings. You can do the math and figure out how much bars, restaurants, sports venues, etc are making off of it.

Miller is actually only making a few cents per beer after expenses. They make their money by moving large volumes. Everyone else in the chain makes a lot more off the beer per ounce than the actual brewers do.

Yeah I admit it was just something I threw in as was one of the only corporate sponsors I could think up off the top of my head Beer does retail at a ridiculous profit margin. Yet said profit still wouldn't pay for players salaries.

[Johnz96]

Z says it, the fans have been saying it for almost 2 decades
http://www.facebook....92351460835362/

[55fan]

Z says it, the fans have been saying it for almost 2 decades
http://www.facebook....92351460835362/

It said we have to log in to see it. Since I don't have a log in, could you please relate what it is that Z says?

Greatly appreciated.

[esteef]

It said we have to log in to see it. Since I don't have a log in, could you please relate what it is that Z says?

Greatly appreciated.

+10 for NOT having a Facebook account.

esteef

[kipwinger]

+10 for NOT having a Facebook account.

esteef

I didn't hear that Bettman was behind facebook, but I did hear that he is the one secretly sending you game requests for farmville, mafia wars, and most recently...BUBBLE BLITZ!

"He must be stopped," says Henrik Zetterberg, "fired, beated, killed, and eaten. For the fans, and for all of facebook."

[Johnz96]

It said we have to log in to see it. Since I don't have a log in, could you please relate what it is that Z says?

Greatly appreciated.

It's a facebook vote. Should Bettman be relieved of his duties?
Currently 585 votes yes and 10 votes no

[Johnz96]

Sure they can sit here and defend him but so what? This guy is an absolute enigma to hockey and needs to be canned asap, hell even Daily could do a better job than him and yes including the golfpro!

Midget has accomplished:

=3 lockouts in two decades thats a 100 % lockout success.
=Responsible for failed franchises and not willing to admit it cause of his little man syndrome like Lupul mentioned.
= most hated man in hockey
= fullfills every stereotype about a certain type of lawyers
= destroyed the game and doesn't care about our tradition
= no special thanks to he leagues backbone
= hated by Illitch
= cost DRW fans two years of Yzerman, Fedorov Shanhan and one of the perfect human that alone is enough to hate this damn midget

Enough is enough can this greedy bastard.

The league as a whole doesn't lose money some franchises are actually making money.

Just get rid off the damn CBA and introduce a luxury tax like the MLB. I am sick of seeing the Wings handicapped because some owners want to play it poor.

When classacts like Selanne, Toews, Boyle and now our next captain are fed up you know something has gone very wrong. Also the media has jumped on the fire Bettman wagon at some point the owners wont have a choice other than finally firing this 8 million waste of a human.

Sent from my BlackBerry

If that turns out to be the case than the lockout is worth it

[Z Winged Dangler]

Players aren't going to criticize their respective team-owners.

Personally, after reading the Dan Boyle article saying that all the owners aren't on the same page and that it only takes 8 owners to carry a motion, i'm waiting for the owner of a team to come out and say enough is enough and they gotta get hockey going again. How many of you guys actually think that Ilich wants a lockout?

I love how the NHL's first statement said that the owners voted unanimously 30 to 0 in favor of a lockout. Wonder now how much truth there is to that or if only 8-10 voted in favor. Seems kinda sketchy to think that the Leafs, Rangers, Wings, Bruins, Jets, Canucks, Kings, Habs, and other profitable teams and defending champs would in any way, shape or form want a work stoppage. I call bulls***.