79 replies to this topic

[haroldsnepsts]

we need people who loved the game growing up, not basketball and baseball lawyers

I would love that, but it seems extremely unlikely. I posted an article in the lockout thread that talks about how the 4 major sports are represented by the same law firm in these negotiations. These 3 lockouts in three different sports is not a coincidence. And both Bettman and Stern worked at this firm.

So you're talking about one law firm that has major interests that have nothing to do with the sport itself and certainly not their fans.

and if fehr is still head of the pa, you can be sure that there will be another lockout. i think this latest blow up in talks really showed how the owners truly hate fehr. both need to go or else another lockout is guaranteed.

I'm fine with Fehr going. This lockout has gotten beyond absurd and he is partly to blame.

But Bettman has had two lockouts without Fehr, so if he stays I don't think it matters who's head of the NHLPA.

they can't even figure out how to get a new cba after record revenues. i can't even imagine what would happen if there is declining revenue coming off the new cba

That's what makes this stupidest of all. This league can't seem to succeed in spite of itself. Every time it's poised to take another significant step, there's a lockout.

[cusimano_brothers]

If Bettman and or Fehr are still around you can bet there will be another....and another....and another.

Mr. Fehr wasn't around these parts for the first two of the three lockouts (so far) Uncle Gary has foisted on the League.

[chances14]

Fun fact, for those who say that Mr. Fehr is the reason for this most recent lockout: he wasn't head of the NHLPA for the first two lockouts.
Put the blame at the feat of the little of person who turns the lockout key.

fehr is one of the reasons for this most recent lockout and you can be sure he will be a huge reason there will be another lockout in the future even if bettman isn't around. i think it's pretty clear now that the owners seem to have a personal hate of fehr and i don't see that changing anytime soon.

if both sides truly cared about the state of the game, they would clean house after this lockout is over and try to start anew, a working relationship that isn't so dysfunctional that the only way progress is made, is when the leaders of both sides aren't in the negotiating room.

[Barrie]

There will be another lockout because Bettman isn't adressing the main issue that would fix things, revenue sharing. Bettman would rather crush the PA then revenue share. If he doesn't want to revenue share, he should move the bankrupt teams to better markets, or get rid of the Cap/Floor. He can't have things both ways.

That's what makes this stupidest of all. This league can't seem to succeed in spite of itself. Every time it's poised to take another significant step, there's a lockout.

Right, Bettman had a lockout after the 1993-94 when the game was more popular then the NBA, and now a lockout after record revenues.

Lawyers, who needs 'em

[Wingzman91]

Like it has been said, if you blame Fehr you are wrong.
According to Bettman it has been 1000's of players and their reps killing the NHL for years.
According to facts, the league has increased revenue to record amounts, inspite of 1 lawyer and 30 owners mismanagement.

That said, with this round of give-backs from the players to make even more money for the owners, why would they fire Bettman?
He has done everything needed to short-change players and turn teams into turnkey investments.
The owners will keep him and some players still make more than he does, so I voted yes.

[HOCKEY MATTERS]

Voted no. I agree with Jonz96. Can't speak for anyone else, but I think they have alienated a LOT of fans this time. IMHO this lockout will keep a lot of fans from coming back. Voted no because another lockout will surely kill the sport. I've been watching hockey since the 70's and have been on many roller-coasters with the Wings. I'm pretty much done with these douchenozzles. All of em. I don't really care if they get it figured out. If I watch any games at all, it will most definitely NOT be my number 1 priority as it has been in the past. I won't be giving the NHL any of my money this year. That trickles down to the Wings and then the players. I don't care. I am angry and bitter that the sport I love above all others has taken this road again.....I wouldn't let anyone or anything else in my life threat me this s***ty. I hate that I am reduced to this, but I can't allow myself to be treated this badly again. Bastards.

Edited by HOCKEY MATTERS, 09 December 2012 - 12:03 PM.

[Johnz96]

He is right about one thing. His estimation of the average fan's intelligence. He knows he couldn't get away with a lot of the things he has done if he wasn't right about them.
It is so obvious who is responsible for all of the NHL lockouts.

Edited by Johnz96, 09 December 2012 - 01:34 PM.

[hillbillywingsfan]

If you don't blame Fehr any you are wrong.

Edited by hillbillywingsfan, 09 December 2012 - 07:36 PM.

[Johnz96]

If you don't blame Fehr any you are wrong.

I'm not sure if Fehr is to blame at all or not. If any of his tactics were underhanded, that is forgivable and understandable considering who he is up against.
But just to appease you lets' say Fehr is even a little more to blame for this one than Bettman is. He would never have even been brought in if it wasn't for Bettman and you can't blame the other 2 at all on Fehr, so the root of the evil is Bettman.
Not even considering the lockouts (the Phoenis fiasco is a complete farce and even worse was pretending they are going to crack down on obstruction every year for almost a decade when in fact he wanted to restrict talent and skill for the sake of parity to gove weaker teams a better chance of winning, I could go on and on about his Machiavellian management of the league and duplicitous interaction with fans, media and management), he is the worst thing to ever happen to the sport of hockey and if we don't want another one when the new CBA expires (I find it almost unbelievable that most think that there will be a lockout when the new CBA expires and yet aren't willing to do whatever is necessary to save the sport from such a menace), we better do whatever we can to make sure he is removed from the sport. We have the power($), when he finally unlocks the doors it will be up to us.

NOMORELOCKOUTS
NOBETTMAN!

Edited by Johnz96, 09 December 2012 - 08:56 PM.

[chances14]

I'm not sure if Fehr is to blame at all or not. If any of his tactics were underhanded, that is forgivable and understandable considering who he is up against.
But just to appease you lets' say Fehr is even a little more to blame for this one than Bettman is. He would never have even been brought in if it wasn't for Bettman and you can't blame the other 2 at all on Fehr, so the root of the evil is Bettman.

so because bettman was evil first, it's okay for fehr to be evil too? sorry but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

when the players union swooped in and ousted paul kelly because they felt he wasn't confrontational enough, you knew the players were looking for a fight in the next cba.

scott burnside predicted it 3 years ago
http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?columnist=burnside_scott&id=4435098

(I find it almost unbelievable that most think that there will be a lockout when the new CBA expires and yet aren't willing to do whatever is necessary to save the sport from such a menace)

i agree with you that bettman needs to go, but again, it won't do any good to get rid of bettman if fehr is still around. as we have seen throughout this lockout and especially in the last round of talks, the owners seem to have a personal hatred against don fehr. So you can be sure that if bettman is ousted, they will bring somebody in that will be tasked with taking down fehr.

He is right about one thing. His estimation of the average fan's intelligence. He knows he couldn't get away with a lot of the things he has done if he wasn't right about them.
It is so obvious who is responsible for all of the NHL lockouts.

and what about the players? don't you think they realize that the fans will come back no matter what?

[cusimano_brothers]

I've never heard of any lockout being called for by a labour organization.

[Johnz96]

If you don't blame Fehr any you are wrong.

http://www.fiveminutesforfighting.com/2012/12/CBA-negotiations-Bettman-Fehr-NHL-NHLPA-concessions.html

[chances14]

I've never heard of any lockout being called for by a labour organization.

a lockout is essentially the same thing as a strike. the only difference is the owners initiate a lockout and the players initiate a strike.

but the point is, the players were looking for a fight because they felt they were wronged in the last lockout.

[Wingzman91]

If you don't blame Fehr any you are wrong.

Yep, Fehr locked out the union and started cancelling games as a negotiation tactic.
Yep, Fehr presided over multiple lockouts and worked for the the same law firm behind every major sport lockout of the last few years.
Yep, Fehr ate your brother after his paper boat floated into the sewer.
Yep, Fehr sank the Titanic.
Yep, Fehr...eh I am out of ideas, you seem good at assigning blame to people who don't deserve it, why don't you finish.

[hillbillywingsfan]

Yep, Fehr locked out the union and started cancelling games as a negotiation tactic.
Yep, Fehr presided over multiple lockouts and worked for the the same law firm behind every major sport lockout of the last few years.
Yep, Fehr ate your brother after his paper boat floated into the sewer.
Yep, Fehr sank the Titanic.
Yep, Fehr...eh I am out of ideas, you seem good at assigning blame to people who don't deserve it, why don't you finish.

Buttman Is the devil dur hur hur
buttman controls the nhl and the owners
buttman makes all of the decisions
buttman is crosbys dad dur hur hur
buttman stole my razor


see I can play this stupid game as well. You seem to be very upset that someone stops and doesn't jump all over Bettman and sees more of the bigger picture and can see without the lame sequin tee shirt that says NHLPA ROXORS on it. I have never said that Bettman more so the owners are not to blame for this lockout but I also can see how Fehr is stalling on things and even making some of the players upset about how he is handling things. Both sides have not done there best to get a deal done. It seems like Bettman and Fehr would rather screw each other then worry about the fans or getting a deal done. Did you miss the part about when Bettman and Fehr were not in the room negotiating that they made some good progress but as soon as BOTH get back in everything goes to hell? Were you too busy coming up with the clever names for Bettman?

[Johnz96]

Buttman Is the devil dur hur hur
buttman controls the nhl and the owners
buttman makes all of the decisions
buttman is crosbys dad dur hur hur
buttman stole my razor


see I can play this stupid game as well. You seem to be very upset that someone stops and doesn't jump all over Bettman and sees more of the bigger picture and can see without the lame sequin tee shirt that says NHLPA ROXORS on it. I have never said that Bettman more so the owners are not to blame for this lockout but I also can see how Fehr is stalling on things and even making some of the players upset about how he is handling things. Both sides have not done there best to get a deal done. It seems like Bettman and Fehr would rather screw each other then worry about the fans or getting a deal done. Did you miss the part about when Bettman and Fehr were not in the room negotiating that they made some good progress but as soon as BOTH get back in everything goes to hell? Were you too busy coming up with the clever names for Bettman?

Did you miss the part that they were probably making progress when Bettman and Fehr weren't in the room because Bettman wasn't.in the room.

[chances14]

Did you miss the part that they were probably making progress when Bettman and Fehr weren't in the room because Bettman wasn't.in the room.

did you also miss the part about how talks fell apart once fehr entered the room?

[cusimano_brothers]

a lockout is essentially the same thing as a strike. the only difference is the owners initiate a lockout and the players initiate a strike.

There is another strike option for employees which can't be applied in this situation (unfortunately): a rotating strike. It can be very effective getting management's attention.

but the point is, the players were looking for a fight because they felt they were wronged in the last lockout.

If any labour organization goes into contract negotiations without expecting a fight, there's no sense in doing it. You have to want to fight "tooth and nail" for everything you want and not just some of the things. If this isn't the mindset going in, there is no reason the have a union. Then who do you think would keep all that extra money?

For all his ability to size up the opposition, Uncle Gary has come up short in assessing the abilities of Mr. Fehr. Luckily, it's going just the way he had hoped.
After the last lockout, what did the fans receive to "buy back" their support: the shootout. That was Uncle Gary's idea. What's in store this time?

[Nightfall]

If you look at every professional sport, the side that is on the losing end of a deal when it expires will strike or lockout. In some instances, the CBA was good for both sides so it was extended. This isn't just in the NHL. The big difference between the NHL and these other sports leagues is the vile hatred they have for each other. There is a history of mistrust and undermining which has chipped away at the relationship between the league and the players. So when the CBA expires, there is no joint talks. There is no working together. There is no compromise. You have two sides who are stuck in a greedy money grab.

The players were making over 70% of the revenues before the last lockout. This time around, the NFL and NBA both negotiated to 50/50 splits so it was just natural that the NHL wanted the same split too. I am sure most people would agree that a 57/43 split is only fair if you are making the 57%. If the players were making 43%, how many people would be bitching that the owners were being too greedy? Would the same people who blame the ownership today give blame to the players if they went on strike because they were only making 43%? I doubt it.

Will there be another lockout after this one? It all depends on how the deal is working out for both sides. I would say that the odds are good that there would be another work stoppage. The only way this is avoided is if both sides fire Fehr and Bettman, and start fresh. They need new leadership that wants to work towards a common goal. Right now, these two leaders are more about greed, winning, and fighting each other.

[Johnz96]

If you look at every professional sport, the side that is on the losing end of a deal when it expires will strike or lockout. In some instances, the CBA was good for both sides so it was extended. This isn't just in the NHL. The big difference between the NHL and these other sports leagues is the vile hatred they have for each other. There is a history of mistrust and undermining which has chipped away at the relationship between the league and the players. So when the CBA expires, there is no joint talks. There is no working together. There is no compromise. You have two sides who are stuck in a greedy money grab.

The players were making over 70% of the revenues before the last lockout. This time around, the NFL and NBA both negotiated to 50/50 splits so it was just natural that the NHL wanted the same split too. I am sure most people would agree that a 57/43 split is only fair if you are making the 57%. If the players were making 43%, how many people would be bitching that the owners were being too greedy? Would the same people who blame the ownership today give blame to the players if they went on strike because they were only making 43%? I doubt it.

Will there be another lockout after this one? It all depends on how the deal is working out for both sides. I would say that the odds are good that there would be another work stoppage. The only way this is avoided is if both sides fire Fehr and Bettman, and start fresh. They need new leadership that wants to work towards a common goal. Right now, these two leaders are more about greed, winning, and fighting each other.

Bettman is the worst thing to ever happen to the game of hockey , we should all do whatever we can to get him out of the game and you choose to focus on the guy fighting him.
Are you contrarian and just like to argue or are you 1 of those many paid mercenaries hired by Bettman and/or the NHL for internet PR scouring the web for sites talking about hockey and propagating their wickedness?