103 replies to this topic

[kipwinger]

I'm not sure some of you guys are aware that those long term deals that were signed by younger players don't actually mean the team has to pay those guys until their mid forties.  Once they retired those contracts are off the books.  And since most guys don't play that long, their contracts aren't likely to be a big issue.  Erhoff, Carter, Franzen, come to mind.  All good contracts for their production, and none of them are likely to play until the end of the contract itself.

Edited by kipwinger, 03 January 2013 - 09:04 PM.

[F.Michael]

Some of these suggestions are clear indications that a LOT of posters here live in make believe world... No team eats a MASSIVE amount of money, JUST to get under the cap, wastes their buyout on a guy who has an expiring contact before the cap goes down, or a guy that has a modest contract... the only obvious ones are Gomez, Thomas or DiPietro (if he were on a normal team, but it's the NYI, so they'll probably give him a bonus)

Honorable mention to Leino, Redden, Jagr...

So - outta curiosity - which suggestions are in the "make believe world"?

[rick zombo]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="stevkrause" data-cid="2337527" data-time="1357262563"><p>
Some of these suggestions are clear indications that a LOT of posters here live in make believe world... No team eats a MASSIVE amount of money, JUST to get under the cap, wastes their buyout on a guy who has an expiring contact before the cap goes down, or a guy that has a modest contract... the only obvious ones are Gomez, Thomas or DiPietro (if he were on a normal team, but it's the NYI, so they'll probably give him a bonus)<br />
<br />
Honorable mention to Leino, Redden, Jagr...</p></blockquote>

How does a team with 68M on the books get down to 60M without buying out one massive contract or two modest ones. Not trying to be argumentative, just wondering what your thoughts are on this.

Edited by rick zombo, 03 January 2013 - 09:31 PM.

[luvmnger]

i believe buy outs can only happen to active players....Savard /Pronger/ Eaves are on long term, therefore disconnected from the cap and on insurance protection.

 

once the are cleared a good bill of health, they would then be put on waivers, or roster space be made for said player.

 

i dont believe they can be released, per union rules of disability.

 

its like being fired while injured.  i dont even think that Uwe Krupp got fired for "bad back=dogsled injury". ( lawyered up)

[number9]

i believe buy outs can only happen to active players....Savard /Pronger/ Eaves are on long term, therefore disconnected from the cap and on insurance protection.

 

once the are cleared a good bill of health, they would then be put on waivers, or roster space be made for said player.

 

i dont believe they can be released, per union rules of disability.

 

its like being fired while injured.  i dont even think that Uwe Krupp got fired for "bad back=dogsled injury". ( lawyered up)

If this is true that sucks for Philly and Boston. Savard and Pronger seemed like two of the most obvious buyouts

[stevkrause]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="F.Michael" data-cid="2337533" data-time="1357266210"><p>
So - outta curiosity - which suggestions are in the "make believe world"?</p></blockquote>
Franzen - relatively small hit for 30+ goal scorer, PLUS the fact it's a massive amount of money out of pocket, real money, not just cap hit, to make said 30+ goal scorer go away
Hossa - see Franzen reasons
Penner - contract expires before cap goes down AND he would likely take less to stay in LA, coming of a very solid playoff
Luongo, Bryzgalov, Carter and Ehrhoff would all be a TON of money to just eat, REAL money, and all would likely be traded before bought out... Also, Break up Carter and Richards and they don't perform (they may die of coke od together, but that's a separate topic), and as for Bryz, they traded a bit to get his rights, then gave him a big deal, I'm sure they're not willing to eat that, at least not while they have the same GM...

Edited by stevkrause, 03 January 2013 - 10:17 PM.

[stevkrause]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="rick zombo" data-cid="2337536" data-time="1357266650"><p>
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="stevkrause" data-cid="2337527" data-time="1357262563"><p><br />
Some of these suggestions are clear indications that a LOT of posters here live in make believe world... No team eats a MASSIVE amount of money, JUST to get under the cap, wastes their buyout on a guy who has an expiring contact before the cap goes down, or a guy that has a modest contract... the only obvious ones are Gomez, Thomas or DiPietro (if he were on a normal team, but it's the NYI, so they'll probably give him a bonus)<br /><br />
<br /><br />
Honorable mention to Leino, Redden, Jagr...</p></blockquote><br />
<br />
How does a team with 68M on the books get down to 60M without buying out one massive contract or two modest ones. Not trying to be argumentative, just wondering what your thoughts are on this.</p></blockquote>
I should have been clearer when I said massive contact... I meant total dollars owed, not just per year, a guy with a shorter deal of big money is a perfect option, not a guy with 6+ years left, as that's real money paid to make a guy go away...

As for modest deals, I'm referring to the 2m or less guys... You buy a guy like that out just because you don't want him anymore, not for cap relief... So the Eaves, Emmerton, etc suggestions are ridiculous, and that's aside from the LTIR restrictions...

[F.Michael]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="F.Michael" data-cid="2337533" data-time="1357266210"><p>
So - outta curiosity - which suggestions are in the "make believe world"?</p></blockquote>
Franzen - relatively small hit for 30+ goal scorer, PLUS the fact it's a massive amount of money out of pocket, real money, not just cap hit, to make said 30+ goal scorer go away
Hossa - see Franzen reasons
Penner - contract expires before cap goes down AND he would likely take less to stay in LA, coming of a very solid playoff
Luongo, Bryzgalov, Carter and Ehrhoff would all be a TON of money to just eat, REAL money, and all would likely be traded before bought out... Also, Break up Carter and Richards and they don't perform (they may die of coke od together, but that's a separate topic), and as for Bryz, they traded a bit to get his rights, then gave him a big deal, I'm sure they're not willing to eat that, at least not while they have the same GM...

You have some very valid points, and for the most part I agree with what you're saying...However - how's a team gonna shed salary for this season (fingers crossed), or next?

 

If the cap does indeed drop to around $60 million for 2013/2014 - me thinks there'll be some big salaries cut loose.

 

As for the Red Wings - I'm certain it won't be Franzen although one, or possibly two of these guys could be released: Bertuzzi, Eaves, Miller, Tootoo (that would make me a sad panda) or Sammuelsson.

[amato]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="LeftWinger" data-cid="2337453" data-time="1357235280"><p>

This could be the year that Iginla leaves Calgary...or maybe just J. Bo. I can see them buying out Hudler too (just as long as he does NOT return to Detroit!)<br />
 <br />
 <br />
Chicago will dump Hossa which will pave his way back to Detroit!<br />
 </p></blockquote>

I would absolutely love for hossa to come back here!! ....but that's not going to happen. Also, I was thinking the flames might buy out jbo too with that ridiculous contract. I could see us trying to pick him up at least for a year if they do. I don't think they'd buy out a player they just signed tho lol (huds) but if we could find a way to get jbo just for the money it takes to sign him, I say do it.

Also, why are the quotes always messed up when I reply from my phone?

[joshy207]

Bertuzzi and Samuelsson.  Both bad signings IMO, dollar- and term-wise..  Holland needed to leave room for some of his prospects to move up.

[LeftWinger]

Fact is, if you will only be able to buy out 2 players, then some of these teams are going to have to buyout big contracts to get under the cap. you cannot buy out 6 players making less than $1M, so the are going to have to be some big names either dealt to the Phoenix's of the NHL for some draft picks, waived, or bought out.

[F.Michael]

Fact is, if you will only be able to buy out 2 players, then some of these teams are going to have to buyout big contracts to get under the cap. you cannot buy out 6 players making less than $1M, so the are going to have to be some big names either dealt to the Phoenix's of the NHL for some draft picks, waived, or bought out.

Exactly.

 

It'll be interesting as to who becomes available via UFA after they're bought out.

[stevkrause]

The real question will be, is there going to be protection in the clause to prevent back room deals from being made, essentially circumventing the cap?

For example (not suggesting this, just using it as an example)
Detroit buys out Datsyuk, giving him full money of contact, then re-signs him to 6 year deal at 1m a year as a "home-town discount"

If that is possible, THEN I could see a LOT of big market teams, "buying out" big ticket players to "get under the cap"

[ogreslayer]

The real question will be, is there going to be protection in the clause to prevent back room deals from being made, essentially circumventing the cap?

For example (not suggesting this, just using it as an example)
Detroit buys out Datsyuk, giving him full money of contact, then re-signs him to 6 year deal at 1m a year as a "home-town discount"

If that is possible, THEN I could see a LOT of big market teams, "buying out" big ticket players to "get under the cap"

I would highly doubt that.  I would think the buyouts would work similar to last time.  Players that get bought out won't be able to turn around and re-sign with the same team.

 

Edit:  FAQs on the 2005 buyout process from NHL.com

 

 

How long does a Club have to exercise a compliance buyout?

There will be a six-day period commencing on July 23, 2005 and ending at 5:00 p.m. ET on July 29, 2005 during which Clubs may terminate and buy out player contracts.

Can such a player, who is bought out pursuant to this procedure, be re-signed by the Club that bought him out?

A player that has been bought out during the compliance buy-out period cannot rejoin his old Club during the 2005-06 season.

Edited by ogreslayer, 04 January 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[Rick D]

You may see some guys traded for picks/ prospects just to make room for the cap.

 

I always think it is interesting to see how this kind of stuff works out.

[Hockeytown0001]

Question is, will Holland be man enough to cowboy up and admit his mistake by buying out Franzine and picking up Hossa? If he has ANY integrity, he will!

 

I won't be holding my breath for Hossa returning to Detroit. 

[stevkrause]

I would imagine we would see big contract players traded as part of a package deal, with the idea that the absorbing club of the contract would buy them out.

For example (once again, not suggesting this, just using it as an example)
Detroit trades Kindl to Buffalo for Leino and a 1st rd pick OR highly rated prospect OR decent roster player, then Detroit buys out Leino, so the higher draft pick would be kind of be the pay out for Detroit eating the money of Leino, as opposed to Kindl for, say a 3rd rd pick, straight up....

Edited by stevkrause, 05 January 2013 - 02:33 PM.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros]

Forgive me for being so far out of the loop, but is this whole buyout process going to be a part of the CBA? Or is this merely speculation at this point?

[Marty Barry]

Everything is speculation until the puck drops.

[ogreslayer]

Forgive me for being so far out of the loop, but is this whole buyout process going to be a part of the CBA? Or is this merely speculation at this point?

Can't say it's 100% certain until it's signed, but it is under negotiation as part of the next CBA.  Latest word was that the NHL had thrown in an extra buyout per team (up to 2) that could be done prior to the proposed cap drop to $60m for 2013-2014.