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2013 BlueAdams Where Are You, Line Thread


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#201 kipwinger

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

Well everyone is entitled to their opinion.  Unfortunately for you, not all opinions are equally valid. 


Edited by kipwinger, 12 January 2013 - 04:24 PM.

GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#202 Euro_Twins

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:57 PM

So are you saying you'd rather have Nyquist and Tatar on a line with say, Datsyuk, than Franzen and Bertuzzi?  And you think they'd actually out perform those two over the span of a season?

 

I think they would most certainly out perform them, maybe not under goals because we know franzen can net 30/season. the problem is franzen will score 3 goals in a game against colombus that we were winning anyways and then not score for 2 weeks. I actually do like franzen, he just needs to have that same sense of urgency he has in the playoffs, in the regular season.



#203 The Axe

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:28 PM

Nyquist and Tatar are MINOR league guys. Why even talk about them right now? Wait til they make the big club.

#204 joesuffP

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:30 PM

Alright we all love Nyquist but no way is he a better option than Bert, Sammy, Franzen in the top 6. We're trying to win games here.

#205 The Axe

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 05:31 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="joesuffP" data-cid="2339561" data-time="1358029843"><p>
Alright we all love Nyquist but no way is he a better option than Bert, Sammy, Franzen in the top 6. We're trying to win games here.</p></blockquote>

You make too much sense!

#206 GoWings1905

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 07:31 PM

Franzen, no. However, I would gladly take Nyquist right now over Bertuzzi to play with Datsyuk in a hypothetical scenario.


 
 
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#207 Euro_Twins

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 10:36 PM

Alright we all love Nyquist but no way is he a better option than Bert, Sammy, Franzen in the top 6. We're trying to win games here.

 

While bert and sammy have experiience and some skill left in the old bag, I disagree they are better. The nhl is a younger faster version. In order for the wings to keep up with other teams they can't have bert and sammy slowing down the top 2 lines, Franzen does that enough, we need more speed which Brunner can provide assuming he adjusts accordingly to our rink size.



#208 The Axe

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:27 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Euro_Twins" data-cid="2339616" data-time="1358048184"><p>
 <br />
While bert and sammy have experiience and some skill left in the old bag, I disagree they are better. The nhl is a younger faster version. In order for the wings to keep up with other teams they can't have bert and sammy slowing down the top 2 lines, Franzen does that enough, we need more speed which Brunner can provide assuming he adjusts accordingly to our rink size.</p></blockquote>


Agreed. But its also BIGGER. Nyquist and Brunner are boys. Datsyuk hits like he's 325 lbs. cause he's a gym rat. Nyquist and Datsyuk wont last more than 20 games til they get some meat on them. 165-175 lbs = pathetic. Emmerton beefed up to 195. He knew what was up.

#209 Euro_Twins

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 11:33 PM

If you follow the griffins at all you would know Nyquist put weight on. Brunner will too, just like kronwall did, just like datsyuk did, just like everyone does. It's too bad emmerton didn't try gaining some skill while he gained weight



#210 Johnz96

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:02 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Euro_Twins" data-cid="2339616" data-time="1358048184"><p>
 <br />
While bert and sammy have experiience and some skill left in the old bag, I disagree they are better. The nhl is a younger faster version. In order for the wings to keep up with other teams they can't have bert and sammy slowing down the top 2 lines, Franzen does that enough, we need more speed which Brunner can provide assuming he adjusts accordingly to our rink size.</p></blockquote>


Agreed. But its also BIGGER. Nyquist and Brunner are boys. Datsyuk hits like he's 325 lbs. cause he's a gym rat. Nyquist and Datsyuk wont last more than 20 games til they get some meat on them. 165-175 lbs = pathetic. Emmerton beefed up to 195. He knew what was up.

Both Nyquist and Tatar have beefed up and are both over 180 lbs now and stronger and it shows. Tatar is not only a top scorer and one of the best defensive forwards in the league but also very feisty, initiates contact and takes no s***. Players try to take advantage of his size and European background and he stands up for himself, he has had 2 fighting majors this year and 4 last,



#211 The Axe

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:13 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Johnz96" data-cid="2339851" data-time="1358114531"><p>
Both Nyquist and Tatar have beefed up and are both over 180 lbs now and stronger and it shows. Tatar is not only a top scorer and one of the best defensive forwards in the league but also very feisty, initiates contact and takes no s***. Players try to take advantage of his size and European background and he stands up for himself, he has had 2 fighting majors this year and 4 last,</p></blockquote>

Both still not ready for the NHL.

#212 Johnz96

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:21 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Johnz96" data-cid="2339851" data-time="1358114531"><p>
Both Nyquist and Tatar have beefed up and are both over 180 lbs now and stronger and it shows. Tatar is not only a top scorer and one of the best defensive forwards in the league but also very feisty, initiates contact and takes no s***. Players try to take advantage of his size and European background and he stands up for himself, he has had 2 fighting majors this year and 4 last,</p></blockquote>

Both still not ready for the NHL.

Both are better than anybody on the Wings other than Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula and maybe Brunner



#213 The Axe

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:55 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Johnz96" data-cid="2339867" data-time="1358119275"><p>
Both are better than anybody on the Wings other than Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula and maybe Brunner</p></blockquote>


Im sure the coach is holding better players back out of spite.

#214 Johnz96

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:29 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Johnz96" data-cid="2339867" data-time="1358119275"><p>
Both are better than anybody on the Wings other than Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula and maybe Brunner</p></blockquote>


Im sure the coach is holding better players back out of spite.

He is not even getting a chance to look at them. They are being held back because of all the forwards we already have signed.



#215 evilzyme

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:27 AM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Johnz96" data-cid="2339867" data-time="1358119275"><p>
Both are better than anybody on the Wings other than Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula and maybe Brunner</p></blockquote>


Im sure the coach is holding better players back out of spite.

 

You need to do some research it seems, not only on just how working players into the system works but also apparently the red wings development process. we over-ripen for a reason, it's one of our biggest give offs in our developmental process. everyone gets on our ass about it, but it's just how we have worked and will continue to do so. Babcock doesn't "hold" players back out of spite, but sometimes you need to field players because of given situations. I'm going to try and explain to you about a situation that you may not like exactly, and I know i've tried to explain this to you numerous times, so i'll try to make it as easy as possible. Cory Emmerton is a great example for such situations as i'm trying to talk about. While Cory Emmerton found his spot on the roster last year, it was due to him being un-eligible for being sent down. If we were to send him down to the minors, he would have to clear waivers. Would he have cleared waivers? Absolutely not. Does this mean that he should be playing in OUR system? No. Cory Emmerton simply just doesn't fit what the Red Wings need, or want right now. Will he succeed with another team? Most likely. He is like a Leino. He just doesn't work with our system, but will flourish within another. Moral of the story, you don't throw a player and try to pass them through waivers if you know they are going to get picked up for NOTHING. Why would we allow another team to grab Cory Emmerton when we could use him as trade bait value? You simply don't do this. While I know you're going to sit there and say, but he played 71 games!! Yes, he played 71 games and also was the ONLY player on the roster that didn't get double digit ice time. We HAD to use him last season. I hope the best for Cory, but unfortunately he just isn't as good as the other players we have which will most likely lead to him being dealt or just not making an NHL career.

 

 

http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=summary


Edited by evilzyme, 14 January 2013 - 11:33 AM.

Pavel Datsyuk - "Pasha" - #13
"Got no fun if you got no puck"
'"I like ladies" - Towards the Lady Byng trophy
"Hannnnnnnnnnk"
"Okay $5 now"

 

I'm Don Cherry and Danny DeKeyser is my Kadri.


#216 The Axe

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:48 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="evilzyme" data-cid="2339979" data-time="1358180861"><p>
 <br />
You need to do some research it seems, not only on just how working players into the system works but also apparently the red wings development process. we over-ripen for a reason, it's one of our biggest give offs in our developmental process. everyone gets on our ass about it, but it's just how we have worked and will continue to do so. Babcock doesn't "hold" players back out of spite, but sometimes you need to field players because of given situations. I'm going to try and explain to you about a situation that you may not like exactly, and I know i've tried to explain this to you numerous times, so i'll try to make it as easy as possible. Cory Emmerton is a great example for such situations as i'm trying to talk about. While Cory Emmerton found his spot on the roster last year, it was due to him being un-eligible for being sent down. If we were to send him down to the minors, he would have to clear waivers. Would he have cleared waivers? Absolutely not. Does this mean that he should be playing in OUR system? No. Cory Emmerton simply just doesn't fit what the Red Wings need, or want right now. Will he succeed with another team? Most likely. He is like a Leino. He just doesn't work with our system, but will flourish within another. Moral of the story, you don't throw a player and try to pass them through waivers if you know they are going to get picked up for NOTHING. Why would we allow another team to grab Cory Emmerton when we could use him as trade bait value? You simply don't do this. While I know you're going to sit there and say, but he played 71 games!! Yes, he played 71 games and also was the ONLY player on the roster that didn't get double digit ice time. We <strong class='bbc'>HAD</strong> to use him last season. I hope the best for Cory, but unfortunately he just isn't as good as the other players we have which will most likely lead to him being dealt or just not making an NHL career.<br />
 <br />
 <br />
<a href='http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=summary'>http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=summary</a></p></blockquote>


This is the biggest myth in all of hockey. When players are NHL ready and can make an impact that benefits the team more than an existing player, they get brought up. Its that simple. Smith wasnt "over-ripened". Nor were Z, D, or Franzen stuck in GR for 2 years? Hell no. The Boyd Devereauxs and Cory Emmertons get squeezed out when new guys who are legitimately ready come in. I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but Andersson is our next Grand Rapids guy. He will replace Cleary. Nyquist will follow next year when he's bigger and Bert is on his way out.

#217 evilzyme

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:05 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="evilzyme" data-cid="2339979" data-time="1358180861"><p>
 <br />
You need to do some research it seems, not only on just how working players into the system works but also apparently the red wings development process. we over-ripen for a reason, it's one of our biggest give offs in our developmental process. everyone gets on our ass about it, but it's just how we have worked and will continue to do so. Babcock doesn't "hold" players back out of spite, but sometimes you need to field players because of given situations. I'm going to try and explain to you about a situation that you may not like exactly, and I know i've tried to explain this to you numerous times, so i'll try to make it as easy as possible. Cory Emmerton is a great example for such situations as i'm trying to talk about. While Cory Emmerton found his spot on the roster last year, it was due to him being un-eligible for being sent down. If we were to send him down to the minors, he would have to clear waivers. Would he have cleared waivers? Absolutely not. Does this mean that he should be playing in OUR system? No. Cory Emmerton simply just doesn't fit what the Red Wings need, or want right now. Will he succeed with another team? Most likely. He is like a Leino. He just doesn't work with our system, but will flourish within another. Moral of the story, you don't throw a player and try to pass them through waivers if you know they are going to get picked up for NOTHING. Why would we allow another team to grab Cory Emmerton when we could use him as trade bait value? You simply don't do this. While I know you're going to sit there and say, but he played 71 games!! Yes, he played 71 games and also was the ONLY player on the roster that didn't get double digit ice time. We <strong class='bbc'>HAD</strong> to use him last season. I hope the best for Cory, but unfortunately he just isn't as good as the other players we have which will most likely lead to him being dealt or just not making an NHL career.<br />
 <br />
 <br />
<a href='http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=summary'>http://www.nhl.com/i...iewName=summary</a></p></blockquote>


This is the biggest myth in all of hockey. When players are NHL ready and can make an impact that benefits the team more than an existing player, they get brought up. Its that simple. Smith wasnt "over-ripened". Nor were Z, D, or Franzen stuck in GR for 2 years? Hell no. The Boyd Devereauxs and Cory Emmertons get squeezed out when new guys who are legitimately ready come in. I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but Andersson is our next Grand Rapids guy. He will replace Cleary. Nyquist will follow next year when he's bigger and Bert is on his way out.

 

 

Our system has been a myth? What. Go tell our front office and development personal that their system has been a myth these past generations. Are their exceptions to this rule? Absolutely as there is for everything. Would we hold back Sidney Crosby if we had just drafted him and he showcased the maturity and skill to handle himself within the NHL? NO! Same situation for Zetterberg and Pasha, they earned their spots by showcasing what they had. They took the most of their opportunity. We also had a team that allowed for Pasha to be implemented within the system pretty flawlessly. If you honestly believe that this team "needs emmerton", he would have been utilized more. Unfortunately he was just wasting ice-time to allow for another forward to get some rest. 


Pavel Datsyuk - "Pasha" - #13
"Got no fun if you got no puck"
'"I like ladies" - Towards the Lady Byng trophy
"Hannnnnnnnnnk"
"Okay $5 now"

 

I'm Don Cherry and Danny DeKeyser is my Kadri.


#218 kipwinger

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:18 PM

Simply put, if Nyquist or Tatar were as good as some around here seem to think, then there would have been no need to sign Samuelsson or Brunner.  Coming into the free agency period we had two open spots on the top six with Bertuzzi likely being demoted and Hudler likely leaving.  NEITHER of those two spots were filled by Nyquist or Tatar? 

 

So, for all those who think these guys are ready to play in the top six, please explain to me why they weren't given the chance?  Why sign two free agents to fill those holes if they guys you already have are better?


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#219 evilzyme

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:27 PM

Simply put, if Nyquist or Tatar were as good as some around here seem to think, then there would have been no need to sign Samuelsson or Brunner.  Coming into the free agency period we had two open spots on the top six with Bertuzzi likely being demoted and Hudler likely leaving.  NEITHER of those two spots were filled by Nyquist or Tatar? 

 

So, for all those who think these guys are ready to play in the top six, please explain to me why they weren't given the chance?  Why sign two free agents to fill those holes if they guys you already have are better?

 

not that I personally think they are better than most of our lineup, because I feel like that's a really strong statement BUT i'll say this about the free agency. Why wouldn't we? When we have tatar and nyquist on 2-way contracts still, there isn't a direct need for them to be implemented within a 48-game season, or atleast this season. With the history of our development, we're going to over-rippen them and could use a season or two more to mature. Both of them added weight over this past off-season and had improvements in both of their games. I watched them and you can tell they got stronger and added in weight. The biggest complaint I had against nyquist last season was his weight. Anyways, back to the free agency. When we can keep both of these players in the AHL, what's the worst that can happen by signing on two vets? Especially one being on the gritty side which we needed. Sammy was apart of our cup run team and Holland sees something in him. I even feel something about sammy! Anyways, we could always deal out people and with them being both 2-way contract players, we don't have to lose 2 prospects if we don't want. So in final, either we picked them up for trade bait and/or security or we can just keep them within the system if they pan out. 


Pavel Datsyuk - "Pasha" - #13
"Got no fun if you got no puck"
'"I like ladies" - Towards the Lady Byng trophy
"Hannnnnnnnnnk"
"Okay $5 now"

 

I'm Don Cherry and Danny DeKeyser is my Kadri.


#220 kipwinger

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:00 PM

not that I personally think they are better than most of our lineup, because I feel like that's a really strong statement BUT i'll say this about the free agency. Why wouldn't we? When we have tatar and nyquist on 2-way contracts still, there isn't a direct need for them to be implemented within a 48-game season, or atleast this season. With the history of our development, we're going to over-rippen them and could use a season or two more to mature. Both of them added weight over this past off-season and had improvements in both of their games. I watched them and you can tell they got stronger and added in weight. The biggest complaint I had against nyquist last season was his weight. Anyways, back to the free agency. When we can keep both of these players in the AHL, what's the worst that can happen by signing on two vets? Especially one being on the gritty side which we needed. Sammy was apart of our cup run team and Holland sees something in him. I even feel something about sammy! Anyways, we could always deal out people and with them being both 2-way contract players, we don't have to lose 2 prospects if we don't want. So in final, either we picked them up for trade bait and/or security or we can just keep them within the system if they pan out. 

 

Well if the vets aren't as good as the prospects, as some here are arguing, then the you'd lose more games and possibly not make the playoffs.  Again, if they were better they'd be playing.  There was room for them, there was opportunity in the top six, but they aren't even being given a chance, why?  Because they're not ready. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 






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