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Would you trade Jimmy Howard for an elite forward/defenseman?


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#21 Buppy

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:12 PM

In theory, I would. But you couldn't get anything elite for Jimmy.



#22 amato

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="F.Michael" data-cid="2339075" data-time="1357846036"><p>
While I'll be the 1st to admit that I don't follow the AHL, or our prospects - I'm not finding much about this Petr Mrazek kid.</p></blockquote>

Take it for what its worth but.. He's had slightly better numbers this year than Howard did on the griffins last time I checked..

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#23 evilmrt

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:41 PM

No. The Wings have a couple of hyped Goaltender prospects that turned into duds (McCollum, Pearce). I only see Mrazek as anything worthwhile, and he belongs at #3 on the depth chart. He won't even see action until next season at the earliest. There isn't much past that. The Wings will have to address this at the draft, again. 

 

You can't trade Howie because they're already too thin at Goaltender as it is. 



#24 ogreslayer

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 03:45 PM

No. The Wings have a couple of hyped Goaltender prospects that turned into duds (McCollum, Pearce). I only see Mrazek as anything worthwhile, and he belongs at #3 on the depth chart. He won't even see action until next season at the earliest. There isn't much past that. The Wings will have to address this at the draft, again. 

 

You can't trade Howie because they're already too thin at Goaltender as it is. 

I don't know where people get the impression that Pearce was a hyped prospect.  He was undrafted coming out of Notre Dame & signed a contract with the Wings as a long shot.  Was really just a depth signing for GR & Toledo.  



#25 martinezsvsu

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:03 PM

we have to see if mrazek can play in the nhl first



#26 Jaymister

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:42 PM

I've kept an eye on how Mrazek has been doing this year in Grand Rapids.  He had an amazing start, but has been a bit hit and miss since than.  I think he's a year or two away from being ready for the NHL.  That being said Jimmy has been great for us when it doesn't matter so much and lousy in the playoffs.  I would give him one more chance to redeem himself in the postseason.  If he fails again, then I would consider trading him.  I don't know if we could get a top notch player for him straight up, I think it might cost us more than just him to make the deal work.


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#27 The Axe

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:08 PM

Only Detroit fans think Howard is worth anything. His only value to me is that he is a workhorse/gamer. That speaks a lot more for a goalie than a skater.

#28 frankgrimes

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:13 PM

Yes I would. Howard is good but certainly not in the top tier so getting an elite defenseman which are extremely rare and hard to get would be well worth it. I think it is easier to get average - good goaltenders than to get elite defenders.


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#29 kook_10

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:19 PM

Yes I would. Howard is good but certainly not in the top tier so getting an elite defenseman which are extremely rare and hard to get would be well worth it. I think it is easier to get average - good goaltenders than to get elite defenders.

 

How do you define top tier?  I would put him in the top half to top third of starters in the league.  To me that is good enough.  He isn't overpaid so presumably we would eat salary in return or it would be a lateral move.



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#30 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 05:59 PM

In theory, I would. But you couldn't get anything elite for Jimmy.

 

That's pretty much how I feel. 

 

Theoretically, absolutely I would for a truly elite player.  Jimmy is good but not elite so that trade would be a win for the Wings.

 

 

But i can't imagine what trade there'd be for an elite forward or d-man that would only involve Howard.



#31 evilmrt

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 06:19 PM

I don't know where people get the impression that Pearce was a hyped prospect.  He was undrafted coming out of Notre Dame & signed a contract with the Wings as a long shot.  Was really just a depth signing for GR & Toledo.  

CCHA Goaltender of the year for 07/08 probably helped. 



#32 pvilleguru

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:35 PM

This year? No. In the near future if Mrazek pans out? Yes.



#33 Euro_Twins

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 07:55 PM

I don't get why so many people knock Jimmy for. He is a great goaltender who has been improving year after year, ya he had a crappy go at it in the playoffs, but honestly people can we blame him? How many goals was he left out to dry for? Our whole team didn't show up in the playoffs, you can't put the blame on Jimmy when there is 4 breakaways a game and 3 2 on 0's. Ya he did make a couple mistakes and let in a goal he shouldn't have, but which goalie has not? Would I trade Jimmy? Absolutely not! He IS our future, Most goalies don't start peaking till about 30, look at thomas, lundqvist, luongo, hasek, belfour, ozzy, and many more. Red Wings fans are waaayyy too hard on the goalies. Jimmy  now is 10x better than when he started, he EARNED his spot on this team. Don't forget before hiis injury last year he was riding top 5 in all top goaltending stats, no one even touched him in wins (Rinne) for about 2 weeks after he stopped playing. We need Jimmy simple as that, trade franzen.



#34 Johnz96

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:48 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="F.Michael" data-cid="2339075" data-time="1357846036"><p>
While I'll be the 1st to admit that I don't follow the AHL, or our prospects - I'm not finding much about this Petr Mrazek kid.</p></blockquote>

Take it for what its worth but.. He's had slightly better numbers this year than Howard did on the griffins last time I checked..

I think Howard is one of the better goalies in the NHL but Mrazek is special.

Howard's career numbers in Grand Rapids are GAA of 2.67 and .911 SP

Mrazek currently is GAA of 2.15 and .920 SP

But it's not just his number his confidence is infectious. He got called up and turned the Griffs around winning 4 in a row after a poor start, even McCollum turned it around after Mrazek showed up and is playing by far the best of his career after a slow start.


Edited by Johnz96, 10 January 2013 - 10:50 PM.


#35 Johnz96

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:00 PM

I don't get why so many people knock Jimmy for. He is a great goaltender who has been improving year after year, ya he had a crappy go at it in the playoffs, but honestly people can we blame him? How many goals was he left out to dry for? Our whole team didn't show up in the playoffs, you can't put the blame on Jimmy when there is 4 breakaways a game and 3 2 on 0's. Ya he did make a couple mistakes and let in a goal he shouldn't have, but which goalie has not? Would I trade Jimmy? Absolutely not! He IS our future, Most goalies don't start peaking till about 30, look at thomas, lundqvist, luongo, hasek, belfour, ozzy, and many more. Red Wings fans are waaayyy too hard on the goalies. Jimmy  now is 10x better than when he started, he EARNED his spot on this team. Don't forget before hiis injury last year he was riding top 5 in all top goaltending stats, no one even touched him in wins (Rinne) for about 2 weeks after he stopped playing. We need Jimmy simple as that, trade franzen.

I don't disagree with you about Howard improving every year but all those goalies you mention other than Thomas were great NHL goalies as soon as they were afforded an opportunity in the NHL.

In Osgood's case, if we stuck with him in the playoffs instead of going with Essensa we might have won a Cup in his rookie year in 94.



#36 Euro_Twins

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:05 PM

I think Howard is one of the better goalies in the NHL but Mrazek is special.

Howard's career numbers in Grand Rapids are GAA of 2.67 and .911 SP

Mrazek currently is GAA of 2.15 and .920 SP

But it's not just his number his confidence is infectious. He got called up and turned the Griffs around winning 4 in a row after a poor start, even McCollum turned it around after Mrazek showed up and is playing by far the best of his career after a slow start.

But you're talking about 187 games jimmy played in GR, compared to like 15 Mrazek has played, you cannot compare that



I don't disagree with you about Howard improving every year but all those goalies you mention other than Thomas were great NHL goalies as soon as they were afforded an opportunity in the NHL.

In Osgood's case, if we stuck with him in the playoffs instead of going with Essensa we might have won a Cup in his rookie year in 94.

 

They were also much more matured and refined by the time they got the chance, and a few of them had started earlier, but took a few years in the nhl to really develop.

 

Ozzy, did get chances in the playoffs, he was decent in the playoffs but never great. He had a great team in front of him which certainly helped, but he did play every year in the playoffs and was given many opportunities to prove himself. Many fans did not think he could ever win us a cup, hell people were even starting to doubt Stevie, but thankfully management saw what the fans did not, and just like howie will, he brought stanley back to hockeytown



#37 Johnz96

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:07 PM

But you're talking about 187 games jimmy played in GR, compared to like 15 Mrazek has played, you cannot compare that

I do agree with you there but I was responding to a comment which compared exactly that saying "Take it for what its worth but.. He's had slightly better numbers this year than Howard did on the griffins last time I checked.."

I only wanted to point out that they are actually a little more than just slightly better thus far.



#38 Euro_Twins

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 11:11 PM

I do agree with you there but I was responding to a comment which compared exactly that saying "Take it for what its worth but.. He's had slightly better numbers this year than Howard did on the griffins last time I checked.."

I only wanted to point out that they are actually a little more than just slightly better thus far.

 

I agree, but taking it for what it's worth only goes so far. I have watched some videos of Mrazek, and while the kid certainly does look amazing, and possibly our future starter, he is still young, and this could be another franzen occurrence (flash of brilliance, then a no show for a few weeks) I hope it isn't but I do not want to get too excited until I see him in red and white playing consistently.



#39 VM1138

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:51 AM

You can't bank on a goalie prospect.  Ever.  Goalies are generall too flaky.

 

Which is also why I would not trade Howard for anyone at this point.  He shows signs of brilliance, can carry the team, and is a workhorse.  Not too many of those in the league, and in today's NHL that's all you need.  What good is an elite defenseman if your goalie sucks?  Howard has at least shown he can bail out the team when they lapse into bad defense.  Ergo, he is more valuable.


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#40 dobbles

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 09:28 AM

trading howard is not a smart move for this team. he is our best player under 30. he has been an above average starter for several seasons now and for portions of those seasons played as en elite goalie. all the while he was playing behind a team with a pretty sub-par defense. even with lidstrom, this team has been bad in their own zone for a few years. i go back to that play in the playoffs against the preds where 3 guys follow 1 pred player into the corner and no one covers the guy in front of the net. this has happened time and time again the past few years.

 

to me, a true elite goaltender can stop shots that he isn't expected to or supposed to. kipper in 04 is the perfect example of that. there are very few in the league that can do that for more than a couple years. howard might not be in that group, but to me he is in the one right behind it.


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