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Would you trade Jimmy Howard for an elite forward/defenseman?


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#61 Buppy

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:43 PM

...This thread's become kinda funny though, ranging from no, to yes, to Jimmy is untradeable, to Jimmy wouldn't fetch anything (LOL!). I dunno where we get some of this stuff from.

 

...

 

Are you suggesting that we actually could get an elite player for Jimmy? I mean Jimmy as the main piece, not just a part of some big package.

 

If so, you must have a pretty liberal definition of the word 'elite'.



#62 The Axe

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:09 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Euro_Twins" data-cid="2339383" data-time="1357948709"><p>
 <br />
LOL, I am bookmarking this thread, so that I can one day say I told you so and have the proof, have some faith in Howie. If all the wings "fans" had it their way we would never have re-signed Datsyuk and we would be watching him dangle around Jimmy a few times a year, because everyone was convinced he didn't have "it" either, and he chokes in the playoffs. When you go tooting about how great howie was in the playoffs when we win the cup I will be there to show you this thread :)</p></blockquote>

Thats just nonsense about Datsyuk. He was pimping from Day 1. How long did he spend in Grand Rapid. Oh. yah. Thats right. Next.

#63 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:31 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Euro_Twins" data-cid="2339383" data-time="1357948709"><p>
 <br />
LOL, I am bookmarking this thread, so that I can one day say I told you so and have the proof, have some faith in Howie. If all the wings "fans" had it their way we would never have re-signed Datsyuk and we would be watching him dangle around Jimmy a few times a year, because everyone was convinced he didn't have "it" either, and he chokes in the playoffs. When you go tooting about how great howie was in the playoffs when we win the cup I will be there to show you this thread :)</p></blockquote>

Thats just nonsense about Datsyuk. He was pimping from Day 1. How long did he spend in Grand Rapid. Oh. yah. Thats right. Next.

Is anyone really saying Howard sucks? I think people are mistaking saying they'd trade Howard with somehow bashing him or thinking he's awful. 

 

For me it's purely a hypothetical that would never happen.  But if you could get a truly elite defenseman for a goalie who was very good but not elite, that sounds like a pretty good trade. 

 

As for Datsyuk, he came into the league as a 24 year old and had a pretty good season but definitely seemed affected by the grind of a full NHL season.  And his lack of playoff production is no big deal now but was baffling then for a player with so much talent.  It's not a knock on Dats, but if you think he was pimping from day one you're either grossly underestimating how good he is now, or have revisionist history of his rookie season.  He was a talented player who showed flashes of brilliance.  But over the years he's gotten physically stronger, grittier, better defensively and a lot more confident with the puck. 



#64 kipwinger

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:35 PM

Datsyuk as a rookie was a lot like Nyquist is now actually.  Far from a game changer, but with a huge amount of potential.


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#65 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:37 PM

howard and quick's career numbers are remarkably similar but you wouldn't know that judging by all the quick hype

 

Regular Season

 

Howard

Gaa: 2.41....917 Sv%

 

Quick: GAA: 2.31.... 916 sv%

 

-----------------

 

Playoffs

 

Howard: GAA 2.63... 915 sv%

 

Quick: GAA 2.12... 9.26 sv%

 

and quick's numbers are severely inflated by the cup run last year in which i think everyone can agree, it was waaaay more about the defense than him coming up with big saves.  take last year out, and the numbers are even more similar.

 

Let's also not forget that howard was a huge reason why the wings made the playoffs in 09-10 when the wings were also struggling to score earlier on in the season simliar to what the kings problems were early on last year

 

at this point in time i'm not sure how someone can clearly say that quick has the "it" factor but howard does not.

 

Sure he's getting a lot of attention now that the Kings won the Cup, but most of it is warranted.

 

I'd take Quick over Howard and I like Howard.  But Quick should've been an MVP candidate last season because he kept the Kings in game after game when they couldn't score.  He had a tremendous season backstopping a team that could not get it together a lot of the time. 

 

The Kings were very sound defensively come playoff time, but he absolutely made HUGE saves against the Canucks and St. Louis.  He didn't have to be as brilliant as the playoffs went along and the Kings got even better. 

 

I wouldn't say that Howard doesn't have it, but Quick certainly had it last season.  To date, Quick has performed at a level that Howard hasn't reached.  It's not to say that Jimmy won't someday, and there's always the question if Quick will be able to maintain that level of play. 



#66 The Axe

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Posted 11 January 2013 - 10:44 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="haroldsnepsts" data-cid="2339437" data-time="1357961508"><p>
Is anyone really saying Howard sucks? I think people are mistaking saying they'd trade Howard with somehow bashing him or thinking he's awful. <br />
 <br />
For me it's purely a hypothetical that would never happen.  But if you could get a truly elite defenseman for a goalie who was very good but not elite, that sounds like a pretty good trade. <br />
 <br />
As for Datsyuk, he came into the league as a 24 year old and had a pretty good season but definitely seemed affected by the grind of a full NHL season.  And his lack of playoff production is no big deal now but was baffling then for a player with so much talent.  It's not a knock on Dats, but if you think he was pimping from day one you're either grossly underestimating how good he is now, or have revisionist history of his rookie season.  He was a talented player who showed flashes of brilliance.  But over the years he's gotten physically stronger, grittier, better defensively and a lot more confident with the puck. </p></blockquote>

We are in agreement on howard. He's a good goalie, but not elite. Therefore, we are not going to get anything we need in a trade for him.

Datsyuk, you are being way too critical. He was awesome from the start. Was he as good at 25 as he was at 30 or is now? No. But don't confuse adjusting to the NHL while scoring a point every other game as our third line center with being in the minors. Yzerman, Shanahan, Fedorov, Robitaille, Hull, etc. Datsyuk was the new kid on the block. Bowman wasnt gonna sit HOFers for the rookie.

#67 LeftWinger

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:57 PM

Honestly, and I hate to bump up this older topic, but I would trade Howard and Franzen to Vancouver for Luongo and Burrows. If I could throw some more in to include Edler then it would be awesome!


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#68 Drake_Marcus

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:05 PM

Mrazek's probably even better already so for the right guy who fits our needs.

 

I count myself as a Mrazek fan but saying he's probably better than a guy who played in the All-Star game is a bit silly.  He hasn't even played a single NHL game...


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#69 Dimaline312000

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:24 PM

If the deal was right and the timing was right I might let him go but it would depend alot on Gustafsson and Mrazek and how well they've been able to play. I would hate to see Jimmy go but if it was the right move I'd pull the trigger.



#70 shoobiedoobin

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 11:32 PM

Are you suggesting that we actually could get an elite player for Jimmy? I mean Jimmy as the main piece, not just a part of some big package.

 

If so, you must have a pretty liberal definition of the word 'elite'.

Yeah you're right. High quality proven goaltenders in their prime come along all the time. Especially ones who could've conceivably, and should've, won ROTY. And ones that were in the Vezina race until they got injured. It's just that goalies in Jimmy's scenario don't get traded often.  Vancouver is asking quite a bit for Roberto Luongo and I wouldn't say Howard is much worse. 

 

What doomsayers and debbie downers on forums fail to realize (aside from the fact they're almost always wrong) is that while they may have number online, in reality no one takes their mopey emo bulls*** seriously. Everyone but Hank and Pav suck, every other team has better players, blah blah blah. 



#71 MabusIncarnate

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 05:19 AM

Howard for Patrick Sharp straight up.

 

In Gustavsson we trust.

 

Make it happen Kenny.


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#72 cr00d

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 10:38 AM

I honestly can't believe some of you think Jimmy would be worthless in a trade. Seriously, give your heads a shake.

 

Jimmy IS an all-star goalie. He's a workhorse that's averaged over 35 wins per season as a starter. He's averaged a save percentage near .920 as a starter, he's averaged a GAA of below 2.40 as a starter.

 

There's not a single GM in the NHL who wouldn't want that from their starting goalie, and if you think otherwise, than you just dont know hockey.

 

Having said that, Anyone who thinks Jimmy could fetch a Weber or Stamkos type player is just dreaming.



#73 Buppy

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:39 AM

Yeah you're right. High quality proven goaltenders in their prime come along all the time. Especially ones who could've conceivably, and should've, won ROTY. And ones that were in the Vezina race until they got injured. It's just that goalies in Jimmy's scenario don't get traded often.  Vancouver is asking quite a bit for Roberto Luongo and I wouldn't say Howard is much worse. 

 

What doomsayers and debbie downers on forums fail to realize (aside from the fact they're almost always wrong) is that while they may have number online, in reality no one takes their mopey emo bulls*** seriously. Everyone but Hank and Pav suck, every other team has better players, blah blah blah. 

 

It seems you're confusing me saying that Jimmy could not be traded for an elite player as saying Jimmy sucks and could not be traded for anything.

 

Again, elite player. I would consider that a pretty exclusive club. Top 5-10 players at their position. Jimmy won't get that. Maybe if he had won the Calder and the Vezina, or even had any decent playoff success, it might be worth talking about. Right now, no.

 

If you want to consider 'elite' to mean a larger group, say top-30 at their position, then maybe yeah.



#74 Hiei

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:13 PM

Howard and a 1st for Karlsson from Ottawa.

 

 

That's the only trade i'll accept.


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#75 The Axe

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:43 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="shoobiedoobin" data-cid="2340150" data-time="1358224363"><p>
Yeah you're right. High quality proven goaltenders in their prime come along all the time. Especially ones who could've conceivably, and should've, won ROTY. And ones that were in the Vezina race until they got injured. It's just that goalies in Jimmy's scenario don't get traded often.  Vancouver is asking quite a bit for Roberto Luongo and I wouldn't say Howard is much worse. <br />
 <br />
What doomsayers and debbie downers on forums fail to realize (aside from the fact they're almost always wrong) is that while they may have number online, in reality no one takes their mopey emo bulls*** seriously. Everyone but Hank and Pav suck, every other team has better players, blah blah blah. </p></blockquote>


Here's a good way to assess Jimmy's value: how many elite goalies are being considered for trades by anyone? Think Devils fans are wanting Brodeur shopped? Or how about Rangers fans and Lundquist? Fact is Jimmy is average and his best qualities are that he wants to play (gamer) and doesnt create problems. I like him for those reasons, but to ponder over what we could get for him is ridiculous. Low draft picks. End of discussion.

#76 shoobiedoobin

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:01 PM

^I swear when reading that I was really keeping up with it and giving it a go until I saw "Fact is Jimmy is average" and kinda just nodded off. Someone told me I was laughing in my sleep.

 

Btw, Detroit doesn't want to trade Jimmy like NJ doesn't want to trade Brodeur or NY with Lundqvist. It was a hypothetical scenario you could rattle off for any elite goalie, conjured up by me, just some dude on a forum.



#77 Dabura

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:13 PM

Datsyuk makes his custom Howard-for-elite-defenseman trade proposal to Holland.



(Kredit)


Don't Toews me, bro!


#78 The Axe

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:18 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="shoobiedoobin" data-cid="2340252" data-time="1358272871"><p>
^I swear when reading that I was really keeping up with it and giving it a go until I saw "Fact is Jimmy is average" and kinda just nodded off. Someone told me I was laughing in my sleep.<br />
 <br />
Btw, Detroit doesn't want to trade Jimmy like NJ doesn't want to trade Brodeur or NY with Lundqvist. It was a hypothetical scenario you could rattle off for any elite goalie, conjured up by me, just some dude on a forum.</p></blockquote>

I hear ya. Unfortunately, I feel he's a product of the system and will be exposed with Lidstrom out. Hopefully you are the correct one.

#79 LeftWinger

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:24 PM

He will be exposed, but so would most goalies who don't have a Lidstrom in front of him. I am in Howards corner, but if the right trade came up, he'd be gone. Business.... When I think of Elite players, I think of Malkin, Ovie, Stamkos, Tavares, Weber, etc... Howard would not garner that type of player in return...


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#80 Dabura

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 01:24 PM

edit


Edited by Dabura, 15 January 2013 - 01:25 PM.

Don't Toews me, bro!






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