Johan Franzen - Once and For All

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="GMRwings1983" data-cid="2339454" data-time="1357963259"><p>

<br />

With the Wings playoff record the last few seasons, not attempting to improve the team makes no sense. Obviously, it'd be a big and potentially risky move, but not as risky as say trading a younger player might be. <br />

<br />

I'm just saying that Holland should look at it. We don't have many "tradeable" pieces, and I wouldn't trade Smith at this point. Maybe not even Nyquist. </p></blockquote>

And Im just saying that if you think Hland is going to spend 22.5 mil to get rid of the team's top scorer who's cap hit is more than tolerable, you need a lobotomy.

Did you read my post? I never said we should buy him out.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Hop over to the Blueadams line thread for a real good post about how Nyquist and Tatar are actually better than Franzen and Bertuzzi. It's a real crack up.

I think they are from the standpoint that they are workhorses for now at least. Skill wise Franzen takes the cake, the problem is he only shows up when he feels like it. If I had to choose between Helm and Franzen, guess what Franzen would be packing his bags. Helm comes out every night and gives %110 percent, thats why he is better than franzen, thats why Nyquist, smith, and tatar are better than franzen.When you score 20 goals in a month and then 10 goals in the next 4 months you obviously don't care enough

[Guest The Axe]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="GMRwings1983" data-cid="2339556" data-time="1358027824"><p>

<br />

Did you read my post? I never said we should buy him out. </p></blockquote>

Of course I read it. And you suggested Holland should "look at it". Now Im trying to convince you the thought wont cross his mind. 22.5 million. Its Holland's ASS if he throws 22.5 million away after he signed the player. 1st, its a good contract as of right now. 2nd, Holland aint gonna cancel it because he drew it up. A new GM cancels the old GM's contracts. Simple business.

[Jericho613 74]

As much as I hate Franzen, it would be a stupid move to buy him out, the only way we get rid of his inconsistent ass is by trade, and it would have to be something that makes sense. He isn't going anywhere unless a team has to have him and willing to give us a great player. That my friends isn't gonna happen.

[Guest The Axe]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Jericho613" data-cid="2339572" data-time="1358033044"><p>

As much as I hate Franzen, it would be a stupid move to buy him out, the only way we get rid of his inconsistent ass is by trade, and it would have to be something that makes sense. He isn't going anywhere unless a team has to have him and willing to give us a great player. That my friends isn't gonna happen.</p></blockquote>

There you go.

[Buppy 1,720]

...When you score 20 goals in a month and then 10 goals in the next 4 months you obviously don't care enough

Franzen's never done that. Over the last 4 years, he's been about as consistent as a ~30g scorer ever is. An occasional multi-goal game or streak, an occasional 4-8 game drought, same as every goal scorer.

He had one bad slump at the end of 10-11, which happened to follow a 5-goal game. That seems to have given some the impression that he could score 5 whenever he wants. Add to that the fact that he's not a very fast skater and not very tough equals some people thinking he's "lazy and sucks". Prime target for scapegoating.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="GMRwings1983" data-cid="2339556" data-time="1358027824"><p>

<br />

Did you read my post? I never said we should buy him out. </p></blockquote>

Of course I read it. And you suggested Holland should "look at it". Now Im trying to convince you the thought wont cross his mind. 22.5 million. Its Holland's ASS if he throws 22.5 million away after he signed the player. 1st, its a good contract as of right now. 2nd, Holland aint gonna cancel it because he drew it up. A new GM cancels the old GM's contracts. Simple business.

You still didn't read it.

On the first page, I said Holland should look at possibly trading Franzen. That's what I was referring to by "look at it". I also said he shouldn't buy him out. You're making this too hard for me.

[Guest The Axe]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="GMRwings1983" data-cid="2339576" data-time="1358036474"><p>

<br />

You still didn't read it. <br />

<br />

On the first page, I said Holland should look at possibly trading Franzen. That's what I was referring to by "look at it". I also said he shouldn't buy him out. You're making this too hard for me. </p></blockquote>

You are fumbling badly. Just admit that youve finally realized what his contract looks like. I will givr you credit for that.

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="GMRwings1983" data-cid="2339576" data-time="1358036474"><p>

<br />

You still didn't read it. <br />

<br />

On the first page, I said Holland should look at possibly trading Franzen. That's what I was referring to by "look at it". I also said he shouldn't buy him out. You're making this too hard for me. </p></blockquote>

You are fumbling badly. Just admit that youve finally realized what his contract looks like. I will givr you credit for that.

Look at what I wrote on the first page in this thread. Facts don't lie. It's been there the whole time. You should try actually reading your thread.

You created this thread whining about something I haven't heard anyone here on LGW suggest (buying out Franzen), let alone enough people to justify starting a thread. Now you're saying that I'm one of the people who advocates that position, even though I stated in this very thread that I didn't? LOL.

Maybe you're just trying to find someone to argue with. And for the love of Satan, learn how to respond to quotes properly.

Edited January 13, 2013 by GMRwings1983

[kipwinger 8,494]

I think they are from the standpoint that they are workhorses for now at least. Skill wise Franzen takes the cake, the problem is he only shows up when he feels like it. If I had to choose between Helm and Franzen, guess what Franzen would be packing his bags. Helm comes out every night and gives %110 percent, thats why he is better than franzen, thats why Nyquist, smith, and tatar are better than franzen.When you score 20 goals in a month and then 10 goals in the next 4 months you obviously don't care enough

Now Helm and Tatar are "better" than Franzen too. Is someone playing a practical joke on me? Am I being punked?

It's pretty obvious they they work harder, and if that alone makes them better in your eyes then great, but I hope you realize how seriously flawed that thinking is. For instance, Jiri Hudler was a real hard worker, was he better than Franzen too?

Hell, Chris Conner was an absolute machine last season, worked his ass off. Few people tried as hard as he did, should we have put him on the top six too?

Edited January 13, 2013 by kipwinger

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

Now Helm and Tatar are "better" than Franzen too. Is someone playing a practical joke on me? Am I being punked?

It's pretty obvious they they work harder, and if that alone makes them better in your eyes then great, but I hope you realize how seriously flawed that thinking is. For instance, Jiri Hudler was a real hard worker, was he better than Franzen too?

Hudler worked hard?

[Guest The Axe]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="GMRwings1983" data-cid="2339580" data-time="1358037134"><p>

<br />

Look at what I wrote on the first page in this thread. Facts don't lie. It's been there the whole time. You should try actually reading your thread.<br />

<br />

You created this thread whining about something I haven't heard anyone here on LGW suggest (buying out Franzen), let alone enough people to justify starting a thread. Now you're saying that I'm one of the people who advocates that position, even though I stated in this very thread that I didn't? LOL. <br />

<br />

Maybe you're just trying to find someone to argue with. And for the love of Satan, learn how to respond to quotes properly. </p></blockquote>

You are on track now.

[LeftWinger 4,936]

Now Helm and Tatar are "better" than Franzen too. Is someone playing a practical joke on me? Am I being punked?

It's pretty obvious they they work harder, and if that alone makes them better in your eyes then great, but I hope you realize how seriously flawed that thinking is. For instance, Jiri Hudler was a real hard worker, was he better than Franzen too?

Hell, Chris Conner was an absolute machine last season, worked his ass off. Few people tried as hard as he did, should we have put him on the top six too?

Now Helm and Tatar are "better" than Franzen too. Is someone playing a practical joke on me? Am I being punked?

It's pretty obvious they they work harder, and if that alone makes them better in your eyes then great, but I hope you realize how seriously flawed that thinking is. For instance, Jiri Hudler was a real hard worker, was he better than Franzen too?

Hell, Chris Conner was an absolute machine last season, worked his ass off. Few people tried as hard as he did, should we have put him on the top six too?

Helm - 26 points playing a defensive role on the 3rd and 4th line everynight...

Franzine - 56 points playing on the top line along side Pavel Datsyuk most of the season...

Sorry bub, Helm is better than Franzine PLUS Helm earns his money...

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Helm - 26 points playing a defensive role on the 3rd and 4th line everynight...

Franzine - 56 points playing on the top line along side Pavel Datsyuk most of the season...

Sorry bub, Helm is better than Franzine PLUS Helm earns his money...

this.

Franzen has skill and ability to score, no one is denying that. What he lacks is hard work and dedication, If you're a chef and you have all the skill in the world but you only put out 1 in 6 dishes good because you got lazy, you are not better than the workhorse down the line who doesn't put out a very high quality dish, but is very consistent with what he does put out, but puts out what is expected and more. I don't think we should buy franzen out, that is just dumb, if we are paying him anyways might as well get some goals for it, but if we could trade him for something decent like a top 4 d-man, I would be down for that.

[Guest The Axe]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="LeftWinger" data-cid="2339600" data-time="1358045715"><p>

<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

Helm - 26 points playing a defensive role on the 3rd and 4th line everynight...<br />

<br />

Franzine - 56 points playing on the top line along side Pavel Datsyuk most of the season...<br />

<br />

Sorry bub, Helm is better than Franzine PLUS Helm earns his money...</p></blockquote>

Ive been advocating Helm promotion for a long time.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="LeftWinger" data-cid="2339600" data-time="1358045715"><p>

<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

Helm - 26 points playing a defensive role on the 3rd and 4th line everynight...<br />

<br />

Franzine - 56 points playing on the top line along side Pavel Datsyuk most of the season...<br />

<br />

Sorry bub, Helm is better than Franzine PLUS Helm earns his money...</p></blockquote>

Ive been advocating Helm promotion for a long time.

While it would be great to see the kid promoted for his hard work, he is more of a grinder and wouldn't do overly great in a top 6 role. He does get a lot of ice time on pks and that does inflate his toi, so for the 10-12 minutes or so he plays a game not on a pk he does put up a decent amount of points, but he is a grinder, not a playmaker, power forward, or sniper unfortunately. I would love to be proved wrong though.

Edited for grammar

Edited January 13, 2013 by Euro_Twins

[LeftWinger 4,936]

If Helm remains a Red Wing his entire career, he WILL be the next Captain after Zetterberg retires. Z is signed thru 2021, so that will be a long time for Helm to become even a bigger leader on this team. Some say Kronwall is the next C, but his log contract expires before Z's does so that pretty much eliminates him I do believe. I see Helm the next C after 2021. (If Z lasts that long)

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

If Helm remains a Red Wing his entire career, he WILL be the next Captain after Zetterberg retires. Z is signed thru 2021, so that will be a long time for Helm to become even a bigger leader on this team. Some say Kronwall is the next C, but his log contract expires before Z's does so that pretty much eliminates him I do believe. I see Helm the next C after 2021. (If Z lasts that long)

Unless Brunner turns into a leader on the team. Helm definitely deserves it though more than anyone but datsyuk and zetterberg.

[Guest The Axe]

Helm is a badass. We sank fast against Nashville last year after he went down.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Helm is a badass. We sank fast against Nashville last year after he went down.

He IS the heart and soul of our team.

[Guest The Axe]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Euro_Twins" data-cid="2339641" data-time="1358050789"><p>

<br />

He IS the heart and soul of our team.</p></blockquote>

Now he is. Lidstrom was our lynch pin.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Euro_Twins" data-cid="2339641" data-time="1358050789"><p>

<br />

He IS the heart and soul of our team.</p></blockquote>

Now he is. Lidstrom was our lynch pin.

No Lidstrom was our quiet leader, the face of the team. Helm was and is our heart