kipwinger 8,457 Report post Posted January 18, 2013 Gotta agree with both guys above; I doubt we'll get Bogosian for our spare parts. Neither Nyquist nor Tatar are spare parts. Both are two of the better two way forwards in the AHL, and if packaged with a decent pick either of them could easily land a guy like Bogosian, who is not a top 20 defenseman in the NHL. 1 shoobiedoobin reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoobiedoobin 138 Report post Posted January 18, 2013 Neither Nyquist nor Tatar are spare parts. Both are two of the better two way forwards in the AHL, and if packaged with a decent pick either of them could easily land a guy like Bogosian, who is not a top 20 defenseman in the NHL. I think we view our prospects like someone viewing an abstract painting. We stare until we see something that isn't there. Just like we speculate about prospects so long positively that it gets boring or we start to feel too blindly homerish, or both, and we begin to look for perceived shortcomings. And we also compare them to current players and those players respective paths too much. Everyone develops differently. Some go the way of Hank, some go the way of Franzen, some go their own way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,205 Report post Posted January 18, 2013 Ericsson on the top pairing. I think that's what scares me/us more than anything, re: our blue line. Kronwall - Ericsson Just doesn't look, sound, read, feel, smell, taste right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoobiedoobin 138 Report post Posted January 18, 2013 Well - Bogosian may not be in the NHL's top 20 Dmen, but neither Nyquist, nor Tatar are NHL regulars...What good will those 2 do for Winnipeg - unless of course they need players for their farm club? Tatar and Nyquist can play in the NHL. We have them in the AHL by choice. Winnipeg could start them, or if they're smart, groom them on their AHL team like we do but whatever. If we trade them I don't care what they do with them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted January 18, 2013 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="F.Michael" data-cid="2341345" data-time="1358546481"><p> Sure these guys "could" play in the NHL, but are they really good enough?<br /> <br /> Forgive my ignorance since I don't follow the Griffins, but I haven't heard much about these 2 in particular, and I'm guessing if they were in fact good enough - they'd be regulars in Detroit, and Holland wouldn't be signing guys like Samuelsson in the off season.</p></blockquote> Ding Ding Ding! Nyquist is the next Datsyuk, but we are "grooming" him. Yah right. Datsyuk would flatten Nyquist like a pancake and break his bones if they collided. Datsyuk is the most solid 190 lbs in the history of earth. Nyquist is 165 lbs of Hudler. Thats why Nyquist is where he is and Datsyuk is where he is. 1 DSM reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoobiedoobin 138 Report post Posted January 18, 2013 Sure these guys "could" play in the NHL, but are they really good enough?Forgive my ignorance since I don't follow the Griffins, but I haven't heard much about these 2 in particular, and I'm guessing if they were in fact good enough - they'd be regulars in Detroit, and Holland wouldn't be signing guys like Samuelsson in the off season. They could definitely play but we're afforded the opportunity to let them ripen a little more in the AHL. They're not there because they have to be. It's like when Helm came up-he could've stayed quite easily but we chose to send him down. <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="F.Michael" data-cid="2341345" data-time="1358546481"><p>Sure these guys "could" play in the NHL, but are they really good enough?<br /> <br /> Forgive my ignorance since I don't follow the Griffins, but I haven't heard much about these 2 in particular, and I'm guessing if they were in fact good enough - they'd be regulars in Detroit, and Holland wouldn't be signing guys like Samuelsson in the off season.</p></blockquote> Ding Ding Ding! Nyquist is the next Datsyuk, but we are "grooming" him. Yah right. Datsyuk would flatten Nyquist like a pancake and break his bones if they collided. Datsyuk is the most solid 190 lbs in the history of earth. Nyquist is 165 lbs of Hudler. Thats why Nyquist is where he is and Datsyuk is where he is. Yeah, Holland must be lying for some reason. It's all a conspiracy. Occam's razor, man. He's just playing more minutes down there because we don't have to drag him up now. I'm not sure why you keep bringing up Datsyuk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dominator2005 558 Report post Posted January 18, 2013 How about Hudler and Ericsson for Bogosian??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,457 Report post Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) I mean yeah I would trade Nyquist or Tatar for Bogosian in a heartbeat too. But I doubt Cheveldayoff goes for that but who knows. The good news is Kenny is looking around... Right, I wasn't being clear. You'd obviously need to trade more than Nyquist or Tatar, they would just be the center piece of a package for sure. I would think that Nyquist and a second would get Volchenkov, Nyquist and a first for Bogosian. I'd make either trade though. Maybe sweeten the pot with a couple of our throwaway forwards if anyone were interested (Emmerton, Mursak)...or, if Eaves turns out to be healthy and ready to go I'd consider moving Miller as well. Whatever the package, we've got assets now, and as I've said elsewhere, considering neither Bogosian or Volchenkov are top 20 d-men in the league I think they could be had for something like what I've proposed above. Edit: Another guy like the two I've mentioned is Robyn Regehr. Given his age and Buffalo's glut of defensemen I think he could be had as well. As you can see from the types of guys I'm listing, what I want is a physical, shut down defender, who can play big minutes. I couldn't care less about how many points they score, and point totals are typically what make defensemen so expensive in the first place. Any of these guys could be had, Bogosian would cost the most, so I'd lean toward the other two first. Edited January 19, 2013 by kipwinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydangles 1,328 Report post Posted January 19, 2013 Sure these guys "could" play in the NHL, but are they really good enough?Forgive my ignorance since I don't follow the Griffins, but I haven't heard much about these 2 in particular, and I'm guessing if they were in fact good enough - they'd be regulars in Detroit, and Holland wouldn't be signing guys like Samuelsson in the off season. Tatar and Nyquist are PPG in AHL. Definitely ready to be called up at this point it almost sickens me to see them down. If we played some players like this with potential they could possibly make others expendable and we could have trade bait finally. Nothing of worth comes from running the wheels off Bert, Cleary, and Sammy. We get nothing of value from them for the future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted January 19, 2013 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="dirtydangles" data-cid="2341401" data-time="1358558181"><p> Tatar and Nyquist are PPG in AHL. Definitely ready to be called up at this point it almost sickens me to see them down. If we played some players like this with potential they could possibly make others expendable and we could have trade bait finally. Nothing of worth comes from running the wheels off Bert, Cleary, and Sammy. We get nothing of value from them for the future.</p></blockquote> Id rather see the young guns make a lot of mistakes and us get bounced in round 1 than bert and sammy suck and us get bounced in rnd 1. 1 F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ogreslayer 1,069 Report post Posted January 19, 2013 How about Hudler and Ericsson for Bogosian??? Think Jay Feaster would agree to that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dominator2005 558 Report post Posted January 19, 2013 <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="The Axe" data-cid="2341411" data-time="1358559497"><p> <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="dirtydangles" data-cid="2341401" data-time="1358558181"><p><br /> Tatar and Nyquist are PPG in AHL. Definitely ready to be called up at this point it almost sickens me to see them down. If we played some players like this with potential they could possibly make others expendable and we could have trade bait finally. Nothing of worth comes from running the wheels off Bert, Cleary, and Sammy. We get nothing of value from them for the future.</p></blockquote><br /> <br /> <br /> Id rather see the young guns make a lot of mistakes and us get bounced in round 1 than bert and sammy suck and us get bounced in rnd 1.</p></blockquote> This <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="ogreslayer" data-cid="2341424" data-time="1358560467"><p> Think Jay Feaster would agree to that?</p></blockquote> Seems like Kenny didn't agreed... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bryguy 103 Report post Posted January 19, 2013 Cross off Edler now... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
St. Michael (the Red Wing) 422 Report post Posted January 19, 2013 Right, I wasn't being clear. You'd obviously need to trade more than Nyquist or Tatar, they would just be the center piece of a package for sure. I would think that Nyquist and a second would get Volchenkov, Nyquist and a first for Bogosian. I'd make either trade though. Maybe sweeten the pot with a couple of our throwaway forwards if anyone were interested (Emmerton, Mursak)...or, if Eaves turns out to be healthy and ready to go I'd consider moving Miller as well. Whatever the package, we've got assets now, and as I've said elsewhere, considering neither Bogosian or Volchenkov are top 20 d-men in the league I think they could be had for something like what I've proposed above. Edit: Another guy like the two I've mentioned is Robyn Regehr. Given his age and Buffalo's glut of defensemen I think he could be had as well. As you can see from the types of guys I'm listing, what I want is a physical, shut down defender, who can play big minutes. I couldn't care less about how many points they score, and point totals are typically what make defensemen so expensive in the first place. Any of these guys could be had, Bogosian would cost the most, so I'd lean toward the other two first. I see where you are coming from. And yeah obviously Gus and Tatar for Bogosian straight up wasn't what you or I were thinking in our previous posts. Obviously some other picks and maybe players would have to be involved. Regardless I still think Bogosian doesn't get moved. I agree with you on the care less about points and being more a shutdown d-man would be nice for us Wings. However I'll pass on Regehr as well. And being a shut down d-man is like money. It doesn't grow on trees. Regehr is alright but at age 32 I would almost take Franson over him cause in "opinion" there is more upside to Franson. Truth of the matter is if we give up assets. Which could be roster players/picks/prospects we better be getting someone that is an established top 4 d-man and is young. Might be a pipedream but it is what it is. Anything less should be picks and prospects if that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Crymson Report post Posted January 19, 2013 Cross off Edler now... There was nothing that could be done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bryguy 103 Report post Posted January 19, 2013 There was nothing that could be done. Indeed there wasnt, but beside him none of the UFA defensemen look appealing, maybe if Whitney has a comeback year. But other then that its a lot of 35+ dmen. So only way to land anything good is for Kenny to make a trade. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Axe Report post Posted January 19, 2013 Our D is mwdiocre, but its the young offensive punch/pressure that we lack. Better offense = better defense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.Low 1,011 Report post Posted January 19, 2013 Yeah, as much as I like Sammy and wish him well, Sammy in/Nyquist out is wrong on too many levels, but even at the most basic level: Does Sammy really give us a better chance to win than Nyquist? I'd have to give an emphatic f*** no! It's time to tell Nyquist what is expected of him, that he's got to carry some mail, and insert in the line up. There was nothing that could be done. Being 60 minutes south of Vancouver, I watch Edler a lot. I'm glad they took him and we ended up with Franzen. He'd do OK for the Wings, but...he's kinda vanilla. He's even more inconsistent than Mule, and more costly when he does screw up. Often looks even more lazy than Mule ever looks. I'm ok not getting Edler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carman 387 Report post Posted January 19, 2013 Yeah, as much as I like Sammy and wish him well, Sammy in/Nyquist out is wrong on too many levels, but even at the most basic level: Does Sammy really give us a better chance to win than Nyquist? I'd have to give an emphatic f*** no!It's time to tell Nyquist what is expected of him, that he's got to carry some mail, and insert in the line up. Samuelsson is a versatile forward that puts up over .50 point per game, which was better than Ryan Smyth, Latendresse, Hornqvist, and Derek Roy... Not to mention has chemistry with other forwards and Babcock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.Low 1,011 Report post Posted January 19, 2013 (edited) Samuelsson is a versatile forward that puts up over .50 point per game, which was better than Ryan Smyth, Latendresse, Hornqvist, and Derek Roy... Not to mention has chemistry with other forwards and Babcock. My understanding of that was implied in the phrase "As much as I like Sammy...". I think Nyquist can do better. Sammy makes some clutch plays, but we all know he also too often does a bit of a deer in the headlights glaze just before he passes the puck to the wrong sweater. My hope is that Sammy plays with a bit more of an edge than Nyquist, and that may be needed vs the Blues. Edited January 19, 2013 by T.Low Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canadian wings fan 305 Report post Posted January 19, 2013 Can't wait to see me a Samuelsson snipe tonight *bar down PING!* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marxx71 1 Report post Posted January 19, 2013 Bogosian would be a nice piece as he is a RH dman with great size, mobility, and youth. I think more realistically we should target a guy like gormley who is probably nhl ready but is on a team with a crowded blueline. I don't think we have the depth to trade for a current top tier dman, but we could try for a potential top tier guy in gormley. maybe even rundblad but people seem to dislike him. Rundblad would look great in a Red and White uniform! Love that kid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydangles 1,328 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 I don't want to make it seem like panic mode. but we need to add a top 4 guy to our group. its pretty evident through 2 periods that our d isn't just under performing, its just outmatched. quincey isn't who we thought he was and smith isn't jesus on skates. 1 Shaman reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy Pred 48 337 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 we get a top 10 pick this year for sure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
St. Michael (the Red Wing) 422 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 We might be looking for multiple d-men. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites