dirtydangles 1,328 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 There is like nothing available in free agency this offseason on D so it kinda means we have to make a deal unless we want to tank a couple seasons until our d prospects are ready... I just hope Holland makes a meaningful deal rather than a "reclamation" project that turns up like Quincey and under performs. We need actual help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 There is like nothing available in free agency this offseason on D so it kinda means we have to make a deal unless we want to tank a couple seasons until our d prospects are ready... I just hope Holland makes a meaningful deal rather than a "reclamation" project that turns up like Quincey and under performs. We need actual help. That's the thing that really worries me. Holland is so scared to make trades and hasn't been successful at making any descent signings in years. Unless some sort of dramatic paradigm shift occurs in Holland's brain, I just don't know what the hell is going to happen. I foolishly tried to optimistic about the D the last couple weeks, but the writing's all over the wall. It's beyond obvious. They won't be this bad every game, but they just do not have the guys to get the job done. They're not even close to having a solid defense right now. Not even a little bit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brandon27 111 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 After today, we better keep looking... long and hard. Our defense was terrible tonight. Especially Quincey. and he's a guy who's actually been playing hockey during the lockout.. against weaker talent as well. So, maybe he just needs some time to adjust again to NHL talent, but hel ooked awful. Just awful. The problem though... sure we're looking for a D-man... but we also have alot of old players up front, and weak younger players up front who arent good enough, to support trading some good looking prospects away, in order to get a D-man. its just going to be opening up one hole, to fill another temporarily. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydangles 1,328 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) After today, we better keep looking... long and hard. Our defense was terrible tonight. Especially Quincey. and he's a guy who's actually been playing hockey during the lockout.. against weaker talent as well. So, maybe he just needs some time to adjust again to NHL talent, but hel ooked awful. Just awful.The problem though... sure we're looking for a D-man... but we also have alot of old players up front, and weak younger players up front who arent good enough, to support trading some good looking prospects away, in order to get a D-man. its just going to be opening up one hole, to fill another temporarily. What I'm concerned of is that Holland will trade for a 5/6 dman and put a bandaid on it and call it fixed. I think we have the talent up front to lose some. Jarnkrok is ready, so is Nyquist, Tatar, Andersson, and even Sheahan could be called upon. The biggest hole is the D. I'd rather build our D back up and plug holes with rookies up front and lose games 6-0 for a year than keep what we have and lose in similar fashion for multiple years. EDIT: Also there is a lot of talent at forward in UFA next year. Holland should shore up the D so potential UFA targets would be more apt to sign here rather than thinking we are on the decline. There are guys like Perry and Getz, and Zajac that could be targets if we were to trade away bigger pieces of our forwards. Edited January 20, 2013 by dirtydangles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 I won't believe Holland is serious about improving this team until Franzen and Flip are gone. Franzen because he deserves the boot and Flip because they don't want to let him go. It'll take one or both of those guys to land someone descent on D considering Flip's in the final year of a contract. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brandon27 111 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 I won't believe Holland is serious about improving this team until Franzen and Flip are gone. Franzen because he deserves the boot and Flip because they don't want to let him go. It'll take one or both of those guys to land someone descent on D considering Flip's in the final year of a contract. Id let Franzen go in a heartbeat... for the right return. Flip on the other hand... I'd keep him. I dont want to give him up. He's good defensively, and offensively. Franzen at this point... is soft... lazy... and not much time left... let him go. 1 Z Winged Dangler reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 Id let Franzen go in a heartbeat... for the right return. Flip on the other hand... I'd keep him. I dont want to give him up. He's good defensively, and offensively. Franzen at this point... is soft... lazy... and not much time left... let him go. What other NHL-ready talent do we have that would help us land a top-pairing defenseman? Not only that, there's a very good chance that we might not even be able to afford Flip next year with the new cap if he wants a big raise and we're still in desperate need to improve the defense. 1 GoWings1905 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brandon27 111 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 What other NHL-ready talent do we have that would help us land a top-pairing defenseman? Not only that, there's a very good chance that we might not even be able to afford Flip next year with the new cap if he wants a big raise and we're still in desperate need to improve the defense. I think tatar, jurco, combined with a pick could land us top D. Theres alot of potential there. However, I think we can easily afford Filpulla. He hasnt done enough anywhere statistically for alot of teams to offer him a big money deal. Some may if they actually realize his talent, but I think he stays. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gcom007 1,465 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 I think tatar, jurco, combined with a pick could land us top D. Theres alot of potential there. However, I think we can easily afford Filpulla. He hasnt done enough anywhere statistically for alot of teams to offer him a big money deal. Some may if they actually realize his talent, but I think he stays. No way on the 1st. It's a nice idea, but just no way. Not even close to enough NHL experience. If a team is going to move a top-pairing guy, they're going to want someone who can come in and contribute right away, not a guy that hasn't played an NHL game and another with a handful. To get a real meaningful, impact player, I think Holland's going to have to ship out Franzen, Flip and a prospect, possibly a pick too. Don't forget the desperate position we're in either. No one's going to go out of their way to give us a great deal, hence why I and others have been hoping Holland would've been smarter about making adjustments the last four years so we wouldn't be stuck in this position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GoWings1905 2,694 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) I don't want to base everything off one game, but I feel pretty comfortable in saying that this defense has some major issues as many of us anticpated losing three top four d-men in two years. The Red Wings likely aren't a cup contender this season and the defense isn't going to get fixed through prospects already in the system. They also probably won't be as bad as tonight to receive a high draft pick and get an impact player right away. I mentioned it in the GDT and I believe the Red Wings need to call up the forwards (namely Nyquist and Tatar, maybe Andersson) that are NHL ready or close to it and see what they have now. The top-six is devoid of skill and players that can generate offense outside of Datsyuk and Zetterberg and opponents can take them away easier without worrying about secondary threats. There's too much old and slow up front on this roster. I appreciate what Cleary, Bertuzzi and Samuelsson have done as Red Wings, but their purposes were better served on a team that was competing for championships. Not to mention, age has caught up to all three lately. They don't have trade value, so they likely play out their expiring contracts or maybe get bought out. The only two forwards that might be attractive trade options at forward are Filppula and Franzen. I think now is the time Holland has to pursue and obtain a legitimate d-man. Striking out in free agency can happen as we've seen and the market is thin this summer anyways. A package centered around one or both of Filppula and Franzen (plus other prospects) gets you an extremely necessary piece on defense and provides the opportunity to assess the prospects at forward in those vacant spots. Nyquist and Tatar are blocked by a glut up front, yet the current crop of forwards in the top-six is aging and struggles to score goals when it matters. Holland has to take a risk since the Red Wings are in transition. It is a retool of sorts on the fly, while also providing an opportunity to build for the future. I don't think you can go forward with this group of d-men and expect to go deep in the playoffs again soon. Use an area of strength to fix a weakness, since solutions don't appear to be there internally. Smith is promising and maybe Quincey/Ericsson are adequate in lesser roles, but it's pretty clear the Red Wings have in no way replaced the departures of Lidstrom, Rafalski and Stuart. There needs to be serious exploring for a top pairing d-man by Holland very soon. Edited January 20, 2013 by GoWings1905 1 Serratoni reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ToMaToToWnWinGsFaN_24 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 i think if after tonights game was a sign of things to come, then yeah definately loook into some trading or release someone/sign free agents. but its just one game. if things continue to go back and the defense doesnt do well at all then yeah, its something defintately to look into. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mule 31 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 If the Wings stand pat we'll be well on our way to acquiring a replacement for Lidstrom... Seth Jones!!! 1 T.Low reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dominator2005 558 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 Title should be: Red Wings looking for 4 defensemen <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="mule" data-cid="2342564" data-time="1358686843"><p> If the Wings stand pat we'll be well on our way to acquiring a replacement for Lidstrom... Seth Jones!!!</p></blockquote> McKinnon or Jones? 1 LeftWinger reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mule 31 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 Title should be:Red Wings looking for 4 defensemen <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="mule" data-cid="2342564" data-time="1358686843"><p> If the Wings stand pat we'll be well on our way to acquiring a replacement for Lidstrom... Seth Jones!!!</p></blockquote> McKinnon or Jones? Well unless MacKinnon drastically changes his game and becomes a defenceman I don't think he could replace Lidstrom on the back end. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dominator2005 558 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 Dats is 35... I wasn't impressed with Jones play at WJ and MacKinnon is just too good to pass on. 1 Z Winged Dangler reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mule 31 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 Dats is 35... I wasn't impressed with Jones play at WJ and MacKinnon is just too good to pass on. I agree but I thought we were talking about the Wings needing defencemen in this thread and Lidstrom being replaced. Regardless, we both know there's no way the Wings end up with a top three pick so they won't be getting either of these players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,789 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 What's my boy Mathieu Dandenault up to lately? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dominator2005 558 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 He's TVA sports analyst... or maybe RDS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dominator2005 558 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 I can't believe I'm gonna say this: but even Komisarek would be huge upgrade on def at this point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hockeymom1960 5,107 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 Subban? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,205 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 Dats is 35... Is he really? Could've sworn he was 34. Oh well. Just that much meh-er. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dirtydangles 1,328 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) I'd like to move for a dman of the future. I'd see what we could do with Phoenix. They are the perfect trading partner at this point. They have a massively deep D and need some better forwards. I would try to get one of: Brandon Gormley David Rundblad Connor Murphy All these guys are pretty much like Smith in that they are ready for NHL but not much experience. I think one of these guys could become a big part of our blueline for the future rather than trading for an aging player. We AREN'T going to get a current top Dman - we don't have the assets. I think the Franzen/Flip kind of deal would work here. Or Tatar + High Pick would also work. I'd be very against trading our first rounder this early though. EDIT: Hell I'd even throw in a vet like Cleary or Bert on top of a fair deal if they wanted them to reduce the logjam at forward. This type of trade is the only thing that makes sense to me. We aren't one dman away from cup contender. Making this trade makes us better for the future, not today, but it would be a price that is affordable. Edited January 20, 2013 by dirtydangles 1 Serratoni reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,916 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 I am throwing my eggs in the rookie basket and acquiring Visnovsky Kronwall - Visnovsky Smith - White Ouellet - Sproul Cola Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Crazy 201 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 Subban? I was just thinking the same thing. Not much else on the market so why not throw an offer sheet at PK. Even if the Habs match, it sends a strong message to the Wings D that either you start to play or your gone. Holland has been way to loyal and players are too comfortable. A shake up is needed if things don't improve soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,205 Report post Posted January 20, 2013 Ken Holland? Offer sheet? WARNING! Reconciliation impossible. Catastrophic system error. 10101010. Commence self-implosion process now. Beep-bop-boop. BOOM. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites