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RedWingNation43

Wade Redden

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I agree with the shortened season part 100%, not as much with the salary cap part.

We could actually see more reclamation projects with the new CBA. Lets take Redden for an example. Lets imagine tt's a full season and Holland signs him up on a 1 year 2-way deal for $750k/$200k a year. Lets say he comes to camp and looks decent but not enough to unseat the seven other dmen. He can be waived, and if he passes go to GR. The difference now, is that the new CBA got rid of re-entry waivers, so we don't have to bury him in GR knowing that if we recall him and he gets claimed we lose him and have to add a $375k cap hit. Basically eliminating what happened to Meech in his last year with the organization. We had to send him to GR and leave him there since we would lose him on waivers and cough up half his salary against the cap if we tried to recall him.

Even though these reclaimation projects might not work out, they'll give teams more useable experienced depth for the farm.

The "come to camp" piece is critical. I mentioned this in another thread but basically if you bring Redden in now, his "try out" is during the regular season & done an the expense of another roster player. (either try to send Emmerton, Mursak, or Kindl to GR & lose them on waivers or move Smith down as he's still waiver exempt) In my opinion the Wings can't afford to burn regular season games to see if a guy who hasn't looked any good since 2007-08, shortened season or not, in a year where there are legitimate concerns that they may not make the playoffs. Edited by ogreslayer

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The "come to camp" piece is critical. I mentioned this in another thread but basically if you bring Redden in now, his "try out" is during the regular season & done an the expense of another roster player. (either try to send Emmerton, Mursak, or Kindl to GR & lose them on waivers or move Smith down as he's still waiver exempt) In my opinion the Wings can't afford to burn regular season games to see if a guy who hasn't looked any good since 2007-08, shortened season or not, in a year where there are legitimate concerns that they may not make the playoffs.

Who in their right mind would steal Kindl on waivers?

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<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Euro_Twins" data-cid="2340702" data-time="1358368076"><p>

<br />

Who in their right mind would steal Kindl on waivers?</p></blockquote>

A lot of teams who need a quick, big, puck moving defenseman. Is Kindl Chris Pronger? No. Is he young and actually developing? Yes. Give him some time, already.

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Kenny could put most Wings on waivers and Stevie would likely pick him up. He claimed Ritola for crying out loud. Wonder where he is now?

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As Crymson stated, I don't think there's a need for another puck mover. Talk about guys who play the same way? Kronwall, Colaiacovo, White, Quincey...and now Redden? We don't have a single guy on defense who has CONSISTENTLY shown that he can play defense in a shutdown capacity. Quincey arguably has the best track record as a defensive defenseman and that's saying something. No thanks on Redden. Find someone off the grid who can play good solid defense, and forget about his offensive contributions. Something like we did with Stuart in 2008.

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Kenny could put most Wings on waivers and Stevie would likely pick him up. He claimed Ritola for crying out loud. Wonder where he is now?

Truth. Even in a few years when we have new players that Yzerman didn't work with when he was here, he'll probably claim them. He knows the Wings have the best eyes for talent.

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Truth. Even in a few years when we have new players that Yzerman didn't work with when he was here, he'll probably claim them. He knows the Wings have the best eyes for talent.

what a dick lol

Dabura likes this

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The way teams were vastly overpaying for dmen this past summer, I'm sure Kindl wouldn't even last 1 second unclaimed on the waiver wire. Same thing happened with Ritola and Quincey, and they had barely proved they were NHL calibre players.

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I agree with your premise, but Quincey played solid in the playoffs for us in 08. I think he had proven himself, at least defensively, at the NHL level. But again you're right, Kindl would get claimed straight away.

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It was 07 that Quincey logged a chunk of playoff time for us. In my opinion, I think it was good for Quincey to leave anyway. If we would've waived Meech instead, he would've spent half of the season in the pressbox keeping Chelios company instead of making an imediate impact like he did with the Kings.

Edited by DSM

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It was 07 that Quincey logged a chunk of playoff time for us. In my opinion, I think it was good for Quincey to leave anyway. If we would've waived him instead of Meech, he would've spent half of the season in the pressbox keeping Chelios company instead of making an imediate impact like he did with the Kings.

Yeah I'm not mad about them waiving him, I'm just saying he was a more known quantity than is Kindl at present. And you're right, it was 07.

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No thanks to Redden. I hope he finds a team and can play in the league, but not for us. Let our defense play, if were going to contend then Ericsson, Smith, Quincey and Kronwall all need to step up. White and Colaiacovo need to play like there capable of, and I think we'll be fine. This isn't the star studded defense of old, but it's not some terrible Toronto Maple Leafs backline like fanboy bloggers like Ryan Lambert want people to believe. Lets get the season going, see what we got and go from there.

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Not a fan of this... I don't see how Redden-White is that much better than Colaiacovo-White. Not to mention we'd be moving Kindl for a 4-5th rounder, or even lose him for nothing. Don't see the point.

As a Wings fan you should bleed Redden-White.... :hysterical:

Anyhow, Kindl is a bust anyhow. I had that feeling from day 1 and he has done nothing to convince me otherwise....should have just drafted Yandle that year, then there would be no debate about how the hell we are going to acquire him.....Holland blew this 1st round pick, as he did also for trading last years #19 pick to Tampa...Holland is a great GM, but even he makes some glaring mistakes....

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Normally I would say no to this. But the fact that Colo is injury prone and Kindl has proved year after year he shouldn't be in the nhl, we need a third line dman to replace any injuries, our defensive coore really isn't that bad, but it is stretched thin, with only kindl to provide relief to any fatigued players, which again I do not like. I say sign him to a 2-way deal worth 800,000

There is no space in the roster for Redden, even with Nyquist starting in the AHL.

As a Wings fan you should bleed Redden-White.... :hysterical:

Anyhow, Kindl is a bust anyhow. I had that feeling from day 1 and he has done nothing to convince me otherwise....should have just drafted Yandle that year, then there would be no debate about how the hell we are going to acquire him.....Holland blew this 1st round pick, as he did also for trading last years #19 pick to Tampa...Holland is a great GM, but even he makes some glaring mistakes....

The team needed a D prospect, and he was one of the best available. He's not a lost cause yet.

As for the pick in the most recent draft: 2012's draft class was one of the weakest in recent memory.

Edited by Crymson

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As a Wings fan you should bleed Redden-White.... :hysterical:

Anyhow, Kindl is a bust anyhow. I had that feeling from day 1 and he has done nothing to convince me otherwise....should have just drafted Yandle that year, then there would be no debate about how the hell we are going to acquire him.....Holland blew this 1st round pick, as he did also for trading last years #19 pick to Tampa...Holland is a great GM, but even he makes some glaring mistakes....

I wouldn't call him a bust or a blown 1st rounder just yet. He's been a serviceable NHL dman and D-men don't usually enter their prime until they hit the late 20's anyway. And on paper he did improve over his first season. He still has some time to prove himself, although the clock is ticking in Detroit I'm sure. I'm betting if he got some more consistent playing time on a rebuilding team, he'd have a season like Quincey did in LA.

If you want to talk about busts or blown first rounders, make a thread about Thomas McCollum... :bag:

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this is what happens when a good player gets in a bad situation.

cleary didnt produce what the blackhawks expected from his "status"

cheechoo changed chemistry, production fell, return wasn't worth investment

gomez inflated value, chemistry/confidence changed...return not worth investment

chemistry / confidence

screw those up and most humans fold up shop.

i would even give yashin, krupp, dipietro a flyer when considering this. ( give me a chance to explain)

take osgood for example...put him in the rangers org. on draft day. would he be the same guy?

here is a solid goalie, albeit, not top level, but the chemistry, organization, helped him achieve what he is today.

rafalski wasnt drafted...spent his young years in europe. no one saw talent until the devils took a "chance"

most of us in our day to day lives, if given the chance, could change companies to find the right atmosphere, would see that the company you keep, changes everything.

point being, i would give redden a shot. for the price of $1 mil. or less, he would be another low risk , high reward.

at $6 mil....forget it pal. good player...not that good.

we all do it everyday....best car..lowest price, nice clothes, clearance rack...$.99 value meal

well....redden is on the clearance rack...$.99 i'd buy that.

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This guy is done. Dont need other team's TRASH at any price. Sammy and Tootoo already enough Trash. How many of us want to see Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, Andersson, Kindl, Ouelette, etc. develop instead of Bertuzzi, Sammy, Tootoo, Redden, Cleary, etc. suck? The saying is not "out with the new, in with the old". Should Nyquist be bumping Franzen or Helm out of playing time? Hell no. Bertuzzi and Samuelsson? Absolutely. No need for Trash. At any price.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything except the Tootoo part.

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One thing about Osgood- he was a winner no matter where he played. Cant say the Isles and Blues were great when Ozzie was in net for them. He still won.

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One thing about Osgood- he was a winner no matter where he played. Cant say the Isles and Blues were great when Ozzie was in net for them. He still won.

He won a lot less than he did with the Wings. He really didn't do much better with those teams than any of the other goalies on the team. That's why I've always seen Osgood as a guy who benefited a lot from his team. You can say the same thing about most goalies though.

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He won a lot less than he did with the Wings. He really didn't do much better with those teams than any of the other goalies on the team. That's why I've always seen Osgood as a guy who benefited a lot from his team. You can say the same thing about most goalies though.
Ozzy regualar season stats...

First run w/ Detroit 1993-2001:

GAA=2.40 Sv%=.908 Avg GP/yr=53 (minus the shortened 94-95 season)

Best year 1997-98= 64 GP 33W 20L 11T GAA 2.21 Sv% .913 (Won 1 more game in 98-99 with higher GAA & Sv%)

NYI/StL 2001-2004:

GAA=2.51 Sv%=.905 Avg GP/yr=60

Best year 2003-04 StL= 67GP 31W 25L 8T GAA 2.24 Sv% .91

Second Detroit run 2005-2011:

GAA=2.68 Sv%=.898 Avg GP/yr=29

Best year 2007-08= 43GP 26W 9L 4OTL GAA 2.09 Sv% .914

Looks like fairly consistent numbers performance-wise for Ozzy between his first stint on the Wings to the jump to the Islanders & Blues for a few years when you start to break it down. If anything, the additional workload might account for the slight differences in numbers more than the team in front of him. That's why the whole "The Wings just made Ozzy look good" argument hasn't held much water to me over the years. Was it maybe responsible for a win or two during a given year? Maybe, but from an individual performance standpoint between pre-lockout Detroit Ozzy & pre-lockout NYI/StL Ozzy, there wasn't that big of a difference.

Edited by ogreslayer

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this is what happens when a good player gets in a bad situation.

cleary didnt produce what the blackhawks expected from his "status"

cheechoo changed chemistry, production fell, return wasn't worth investment

gomez inflated value, chemistry/confidence changed...return not worth investment

chemistry / confidence

screw those up and most humans fold up shop.

i would even give yashin, krupp, dipietro a flyer when considering this. ( give me a chance to explain)

take osgood for example...put him in the rangers org. on draft day. would he be the same guy?

here is a solid goalie, albeit, not top level, but the chemistry, organization, helped him achieve what he is today.

rafalski wasnt drafted...spent his young years in europe. no one saw talent until the devils took a "chance"

most of us in our day to day lives, if given the chance, could change companies to find the right atmosphere, would see that the company you keep, changes everything.

point being, i would give redden a shot. for the price of $1 mil. or less, he would be another low risk , high reward.

at $6 mil....forget it pal. good player...not that good.

we all do it everyday....best car..lowest price, nice clothes, clearance rack...$.99 value meal

well....redden is on the clearance rack...$.99 i'd buy that.

None of the players you listed are applicable to your point. Cleary was young. Cheechoo had hernia surgery. Gomez went to crap, and he's one-dimensional and so had nothing to offer. Rafalski was young when he broke into the league. Osgood's stats stayed relatively constant across teams. And so on. Redden? He's a washed-up, past-his-prime player. He was very good five years ago, but now he can't even maintain a top-pairing spot on an AHL team. He was known for his offense, but he can no longer produce even at the minor-league level.

No thanks.

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