Kronwall IS a #1 Dman

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

Sorry but I disagree:

Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, Letang are elite. Kronwall is a great second pairing guy just like White but he is not and probably at the age of 30 will never be a number 1. The reason why the Wings urgently need a number 1 defenseman is simple; to create a top and a very solid second pairing, as of now this team doesn't have that.

Letang...really? I'd take Kronner over Letang and his short temper hissy fits any day of the week. Kronwall is also way better 2-way.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Letang...really? I'd take Kronner over Letang and his short temper hissy fits any day of the week. Kronwall is also way better 2-way.

agreed

[joesuffP 1,746]

Ericsson and Kronwall on the #1 pairing is one of the things I'm most excited to see this season. Ericsson could potentially take a huge step forward and become a real top pairing defensemen can you imagine that?

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Ericsson and Kronwall on the #1 pairing is one of the things I'm most excited to see this season. Ericsson could potentially take a huge step forward and become a real top pairing defensemen can you imagine that?

I think it's great for him, I honestly don't think he felt challenged enough before, which is why he kind of looked bored sometimes. With a more challenging role I think he could actually step it up big time and prove all the big rig haters wrong.

[Carman 387]

Sorry but I disagree:

Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, Letang are elite. Kronwall is a great second pairing guy just like White but he is not and probably at the age of 30 will never be a number 1. The reason why the Wings urgently need a number 1 defenseman is simple; to create a top and a very solid second pairing, as of now this team doesn't have that.

You do know that Kronwall has a much better career PPG than Suter, all while being much more physical, and dare I say it better defensively than Suter? Not to mention the difference in power play time considering first and second line defenseman, with Suter playing with Weber, and Kronwall usually on the second pairing behind Lidstrom.

Kronwall isn't elite Norris discussion, but he's a top 10-15 defenseman with a absolutely amazing skill that can change games unlike many point producing defensemen in the league.

Wings got hurt with the loss of Lidstrom, but they are still one of the better offensive defenses in the league. Compare

Doughty(36)/MItchell(24) Kronwall(36)/Smith(.50 PPG or around 38 points)

Voynov(20)/Greene(15) Quincey(26)/White(32)

Martinez(12)/Scuderi(9) to Colaiacovo(19) only 50 games on St. Louis/Ericsson(11)

Yea, Lidstrom helped Whites numbers, but he's put up similar numbers 26,30 etc in Toronto and Calgary as well. Colaiacovo only played 50 games, Quincey has put up 38 in the past. The Wings defense is also younger as a whole.Kronwall,Quincey, Ericsson are all physical. I don't see a great discrepancy, surely the Kings had Quick play extraordinarily well, but Howard's career numbers are very similar.

[Guest The Axe]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Euro_Twins" data-cid="2340916" data-time="1358444044"><p>

<br />

Ok you're right I will conceive to Bourque, also I bring Vladdy up because he was poised to be better than Lidstrom before the accident</p></blockquote>

Please do not get preggers with Ray Bourque. Ha!

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

You do know that Kronwall has a much better career PPG than Suter, all while being much more physical, and dare I say it better defensively than Suter? Not to mention the difference in power play time considering first and second line defenseman, with Suter playing with Weber, and Kronwall usually on the second pairing behind Lidstrom.

Kronwall isn't elite Norris discussion, but he's a top 10-15 defenseman with a absolutely amazing skill that can change games unlike many point producing defensemen in the league.

Wings got hurt with the loss of Lidstrom, but they are still one of the better offensive defenses in the league. Compare

Doughty(36)/MItchell(24) Kronwall(36)/Smith(.50 PPG or around 38 points)

Voynov(20)/Greene(15) Quincey(26)/White(32)

Martinez(12)/Scuderi(9) to Colaiacovo(19) only 50 games on St. Louis/Ericsson(11)

Yea, Lidstrom helped Whites numbers, but he's put up similar numbers 26,30 etc in Toronto and Calgary as well. Colaiacovo only played 50 games, Quincey has put up 38 in the past. The Wings defense is also younger as a whole.Kronwall,Quincey, Ericsson are all physical. I don't see a great discrepancy, surely the Kings had Quick play extraordinarily well, but Howard's career numbers are very similar.

I agreed with you oh so much until... Ericsson being physical? I love how far he has come and he is so much better now and so much smarter with the puck. Physical however is not a strength of his. It is however something we HAVE been pushing him to be for years now, he is a big guy and he needs to start playing a more physical game

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Euro_Twins" data-cid="2340916" data-time="1358444044"><p>

<br />

Ok you're right I will conceive to Bourque, also I bring Vladdy up because he was poised to be better than Lidstrom before the accident</p></blockquote>

Please do not get preggers with Ray Bourque. Ha!

lmao, sorry concede* and would that be such a bad thing? to give birth to a future ray bourque for the wings

[Guest fat guy in a maltby jersey]

You do know that Kronwall has a much better career PPG than Suter, all while being much more physical, and dare I say it better defensively than Suter?

LOL

[Carman 387]

I agreed with you oh so much until... Ericsson being physical? I love how far he has come and he is so much better now and so much smarter with the puck. Physical however is not a strength of his. It is however something we HAVE been pushing him to be for years now, he is a big guy and he needs to start playing a more physical game

He did have 128 hits last year(in 58 games), more than Douglas Murray for example. He needs to be more physical though I agree, but he also needs to block a ton more shots. That's the area he needs to improve in the most, we need him to be a force on the penalty kill, he's showing glimpses but he does have a way to go.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

He did have 128 hits last year(in 58 games), more than Douglas Murray for example. He needs to be more physical though I agree, but he also needs to block a ton more shots. That's the area he needs to improve in the most, we need him to be a force on the penalty kill, he's showing glimpses but he does have a way to go.

ya but that's like 2.2 hits per game. For a guy his size he should be easily 3-4 hits per game, and yes blocking shots is definitely a weak spot on his resume

[Carman 387]

LOL

Glad that's funny, would like to know the defensive area's Suter is better than Kronwall at. Kronwall is much better in the corners, blocking shots, being physical. Here's a good article backing up my claim that Suter, while a very good defenseman was helped tremendously by the play of Weber.

Here's a quick excerpt.

Let's take Suter, Weber's most common partner, as an example. When the two were paired up at 5-on-5 last season 49% of the shots that were attempted during those minutes were attempted by the Predators. When Suter was on the ice without Weber the Predators only attempted 43 percent of the shots.

GF% is simply the percentage of goals scored that belonged to the Predators. When Weber and Suter were out there together over 54 percent of the goals were scored by Nashville. When Suter played without Weber, only 43 percent of the goals were scored by Nashville.

Basically, Suter had a lot of problems when he wasn't paired up with Weber (and perhaps that's something to keep in mind if you're a Wild fan).

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/eye-on-hockey/19616275/nashvilles-defensive-struggles-when-shea-weber-wasnt-on-the-ice

Edited January 17, 2013 by Carman

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Glad that's funny, would like to know the defensive area's Suter is better than Kronwall at. Kronwall is much better in the corners, blocking shots, being physical. Here's a good article backing up my claim that Suter, while a very good defenseman was helped tremendously by the play of Weber.

Here's a quick excerpt.

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/eye-on-hockey/19616275/nashvilles-defensive-struggles-when-shea-weber-wasnt-on-the-ice

I want to know Webers stats without Suter. Lets look at kronwalls +/- in 2011/2012 he was a -2, suter was a +15, 2010/2011 kronwall +5, suter +20. I think you get the point, Offensively Suter may not have the advantage, but defensively, he does

[Carman 387]

I want to know Webers stats without Suter. Lets look at kronwalls +/- in 2011/2012 he was a -2, suter was a +15, 2010/2011 kronwall +5, suter +20. I think you get the point, Offensively Suter may not have the advantage, but defensively, he does

Sorry, I don't put much stock into +/-. But if you want to then you do realize Kronwall has a higher career +/-? But really +/- is a very misleading statistic in my eyes at least. I watch a lot of hockey, and look at all of stats and trends. That's how I come to my opinions. +/- can go beyond a player's control, like goaltending, and simple luck. I personally like noticing giveaways, takeaways, hits, decisions(pinching, commiting to a corner in the defensive zone, first passes etc.)

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/eye-on-hockey/20753045/dale-hunter-goes-away-from-plus-minus-for-scoring-chance-based-system

[Guest fat guy in a maltby jersey]

wait, you were serious? you actually believe that krownall is better defensively than suter?

i thought you were joking. "Carman made a very funny joke today".

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

wait, you were serious? you actually believe that krownall is better defensively than suter?

i thought you were joking. "Carman made a very funny joke today".

Please add a useful and insightful opinion to the conversation. And I would rather have Kronwall on the Wings than Suter. You're apparently one of those girls that always wants what you can't have...

[Guest fat guy in a maltby jersey]

I would rather have Kronwall on the Wings than Suter.

i suppose you are entitled to your opinion, even if it is absolutely insane.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

You do know that Kronwall has a much better career PPG than Suter, all while being much more physical, and dare I say it better defensively than Suter? Not to mention the difference in power play time considering first and second line defenseman, with Suter playing with Weber, and Kronwall usually on the second pairing behind Lidstrom.

Kronwall isn't elite Norris discussion, but he's a top 10-15 defenseman with a absolutely amazing skill that can change games unlike many point producing defensemen in the league.

Wings got hurt with the loss of Lidstrom, but they are still one of the better offensive defenses in the league. Compare

Doughty(36)/MItchell(24) Kronwall(36)/Smith(.50 PPG or around 38 points)

Voynov(20)/Greene(15) Quincey(26)/White(32)

Martinez(12)/Scuderi(9) to Colaiacovo(19) only 50 games on St. Louis/Ericsson(11)

Yea, Lidstrom helped Whites numbers, but he's put up similar numbers 26,30 etc in Toronto and Calgary as well. Colaiacovo only played 50 games, Quincey has put up 38 in the past. The Wings defense is also younger as a whole.Kronwall,Quincey, Ericsson are all physical. I don't see a great discrepancy, surely the Kings had Quick play extraordinarily well, but Howard's career numbers are very similar.

Nothing against Kronwall I really like him, but Suter is in another league, stats aren't everything. The defense as a whole will need to step up thats for sure. Even Weber himself admitted that he can do all the sexy offensive stuff because of Suter taking care of business.

Edited January 17, 2013 by frankgrimes

[Guest The Axe]

I dont understand why some dont see +/- as important over extended periods. I will agree that a 20 game stretch or even a season can sometimes not be an accurate representation of a player's ability to help the team. But over 5 seasons +, I think its a great stat. Lool at Bobby Otr and see if you think he was just an offensive guru. +120 one year!! Nope.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I dont understand why some dont see +/- as important over extended periods. I will agree that a 20 game stretch or even a season can sometimes not be an accurate representation of a player's ability to help the team. But over 5 seasons +, I think its a great stat. Lool at Bobby Otr and see if you think he was just an offensive guru. +120 one year!! Nope.

There's just too many variables for +/- to be that meaningful of a stat. If it has any use at all I think it's only when you use it to look at the extremes for players on the same team. If someone on the Wings is a -17 on the season and the next lowest guy is a -2, I think that's meaningful.

But over multiples seasons and across teams, I don't think it means much.

Rick Nash is a career -71. By that number you'd think he never crossed center ice to head back into his defensive zone. Patrick Kane on the other hand, who isn't exactly a strong backchecker, cherry picks a lot and is always the first guy headed up ice looking for a pass, is a career +23. So Nash is that much worse defensively than Kane? Not really.

[Euro_Twins 4,475]

Sorry, I don't put much stock into +/-. But if you want to then you do realize Kronwall has a higher career +/-? But really +/- is a very misleading statistic in my eyes at least. I watch a lot of hockey, and look at all of stats and trends. That's how I come to my opinions. +/- can go beyond a player's control, like goaltending, and simple luck. I personally like noticing giveaways, takeaways, hits, decisions(pinching, commiting to a corner in the defensive zone, first passes etc.)

http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/eye-on-hockey/20753045/dale-hunter-goes-away-from-plus-minus-for-scoring-chance-based-system

Oh ok, you want to go there? I was using +/- as something everyone can relate to and understand, and considering they ARE defensemen the +/- should matter. Kronwall is prone to making bad decisions, ie going for a big check which ends up causing a goal, rushing towards the oppositions net to get a loose puck just to have it stolen and now hes out of position causing an odd man rush, not having a good idea of a play that is about to happen etc... I am not saying Kronwall is bad, he plays a different game than suter. What I am saying is you're putting too much stock in what one reporter is saying about suter and not seeing clearly things kronwall does wrong.

[toby91_ca 620]

I dont understand why some dont see +/- as important over extended periods.

Because it is very close to a useless stat. It's much more a team stat than individual. Also, the more offensive guys are more likely to have a good stat in that area than a good defensive guy, yet people use it all the time to try and explain why someone is good defensively.

[Dabura 12,206]

Holland:

...I think Nik Kronwall is a really, really good defenceman. There’s no doubt he’s the face of our defence. It’s Nik Kronwall and then it’s a committee.

[canadian wings fan 305]

Kronwall's going to be sickkkkk this year. I expect a 40 point season out of him (10G,30A) and a +15

[Guest The Axe]

I agree that +/- is a very team influenced stat, but i think it holds a lot of value. Fedorov and Jagr were huge +/- guys in the playoffs and reg season from 1993-2003. And they were arguably the 2 best forwards during that decade.

[Carman 387]

I agree that +/- is a very team influenced stat, but i think it holds a lot of value. Fedorov and Jagr were huge +/- guys in the playoffs and reg season from 1993-2003. And they were arguably the 2 best forwards during that decade.

Franzen and Bertuzzi led the Red Wings in +/-, and they are definitely not two of the best forwards on the Red Wings.