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Kronwall IS a #1 Dman


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#21 fat guy in a maltby jersey

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:40 AM

pronger was definitely on lidstrom's level at one point, it was just brief compared to lidstrom being dominant for nearly 2 decades. anyone that claims otherwise is insane.

also, there's this guy called ray bourque you may have heard of.

lidstrom was the best defenseman in the league for over a decade, but let's not pretend the only other player near his level was konstantinov. that's homerism taken to a disgusting extent.

#22 GMRwings1983

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:44 AM

Nevermind.  

 

I linked the thread below that I wanted to refer to.  


Edited by GMRwings1983, 17 January 2013 - 11:55 AM.

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#23 toby91_ca

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:51 AM

As long as we can agree that comparing Letang to Lidstrom is a fricking joke.

Maybe I missed the comments, but I didn't think anyone compared Letang to Lidstrom (could have missread though).  I thought Letang's name came up when referring to who the elite dmen are in the league, that's about as far as it went.

 

That said though, at the same age as Letang, Lidstrom was about 5 years away from winning his first Norris trophy.  That said, yes, it would be a joke to even think about comparing him to Lidstrom.



I started a thread about this a year ago, and most people agreed that Kronwall was NOT a #1 defenseman, and that Holland would find someone else to fill that role, with Kronwall complementing them.

 

I wonder what's changed since then?  

What's changed is that they didn't get someone else to fit that role so we now have to convince ourselves that Kronwall will be the man.

 

Let's not kid ourselves, Management sure as hell tried to get someone.  I'm sure they hope the current guys step up, but there has to be some level of concern.



#24 GMRwings1983

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:54 AM

Maybe I missed the comments, but I didn't think anyone compared Letang to Lidstrom (could have missread though).  I thought Letang's name came up when referring to who the elite dmen are in the league, that's about as far as it went.

 

That said though, at the same age as Letang, Lidstrom was about 5 years away from winning his first Norris trophy.  That said, yes, it would be a joke to even think about comparing him to Lidstrom.



What's changed is that they didn't get someone else to fit that role so we now have to convince ourselves that Kronwall will be the man.

 

Let's not kid ourselves, Management sure as hell tried to get someone.  I'm sure they hope the current guys step up, but there has to be some level of concern.

 

Actually, I misstated myself.  Looks like reactions were mixed in the thread.  I've linked it below.  

 

Many people did think Kronwall could be #1, but they obviously didn't think he could fill Lidstrom's shoes.  I don't know if anyone could.  He's the toughest #1 to replace around the league.  

 

Here's the thread:

 

http://www.letsgowin...le/?hl=kronwall


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#25 Euro_Twins

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:34 PM

pronger was definitely on lidstrom's level at one point, it was just brief compared to lidstrom being dominant for nearly 2 decades. anyone that claims otherwise is insane.

also, there's this guy called ray bourque you may have heard of.

lidstrom was the best defenseman in the league for over a decade, but let's not pretend the only other player near his level was konstantinov. that's homerism taken to a disgusting extent.

 

Ok you're right I will conceive to Bourque, also I bring Vladdy up because he was poised to be better than Lidstrom before the accident



#26 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 01:30 PM

Sorry but I disagree:
 
Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, Letang are elite. Kronwall is a great second pairing guy just like White but he is not and probably at the age of 30 will never be a number 1. The reason why the Wings urgently need a number 1 defenseman is simple; to create a top and a very solid second pairing, as of now this team doesn't have that.
 
 

Letang...really? I'd take Kronner over Letang and his short temper hissy fits any day of the week. Kronwall is also way better 2-way.

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#27 Euro_Twins

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:51 PM

Letang...really? I'd take Kronner over Letang and his short temper hissy fits any day of the week. Kronwall is also way better 2-way.

agreed



#28 joesuffP

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 02:56 PM

Ericsson and Kronwall on the #1 pairing is one of the things I'm most excited to see this season. Ericsson could potentially take a huge step forward and become a real top pairing defensemen can you imagine that?



#29 Euro_Twins

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:10 PM

Ericsson and Kronwall on the #1 pairing is one of the things I'm most excited to see this season. Ericsson could potentially take a huge step forward and become a real top pairing defensemen can you imagine that?

 

I think it's great for him, I honestly don't think he felt challenged enough before, which is why he kind of looked bored sometimes. With a more challenging role I think he could actually step it up big time and prove all the big rig haters wrong.



#30 Carman

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:12 PM

Sorry but I disagree:

 

Weber, Suter, Pietrangelo, Letang are elite. Kronwall is a great second pairing guy just like White but he is not and probably at the age of 30 will never be a number 1. The reason why the Wings urgently need a number 1 defenseman is simple; to create a top and a very solid second pairing, as of now this team doesn't have that.

 

You do know that Kronwall has a much better career PPG than Suter, all while being much more physical, and dare I say it better defensively than Suter? Not to mention the difference in power play time considering first and second line defenseman, with Suter playing with Weber, and Kronwall usually on the second pairing behind Lidstrom.

 

Kronwall isn't elite Norris discussion, but he's a top 10-15 defenseman with a absolutely amazing skill that can change games unlike many point producing defensemen in the league.

 

Wings got hurt with the loss of Lidstrom, but they are still one of the better offensive defenses in the league. Compare

 

Doughty(36)/MItchell(24)        Kronwall(36)/Smith(.50 PPG or around 38 points)

Voynov(20)/Greene(15)          Quincey(26)/White(32)

Martinez(12)/Scuderi(9)  to       Colaiacovo(19) only 50 games on St. Louis/Ericsson(11)

 

Yea, Lidstrom helped Whites numbers, but he's put up similar numbers 26,30 etc in Toronto and Calgary as well. Colaiacovo only played 50 games, Quincey has put up 38 in the past. The Wings defense is also younger as a whole.Kronwall,Quincey, Ericsson are all physical. I don't see a great discrepancy, surely the Kings had Quick play extraordinarily well, but Howard's career numbers are very similar.



#31 The Axe

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:14 PM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Euro_Twins" data-cid="2340916" data-time="1358444044"><p>
 <br />
Ok you're right I will conceive to Bourque, also I bring Vladdy up because he was poised to be better than Lidstrom before the accident</p></blockquote>


Please do not get preggers with Ray Bourque. Ha!

#32 Euro_Twins

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:19 PM

You do know that Kronwall has a much better career PPG than Suter, all while being much more physical, and dare I say it better defensively than Suter? Not to mention the difference in power play time considering first and second line defenseman, with Suter playing with Weber, and Kronwall usually on the second pairing behind Lidstrom.

 

Kronwall isn't elite Norris discussion, but he's a top 10-15 defenseman with a absolutely amazing skill that can change games unlike many point producing defensemen in the league.

 

Wings got hurt with the loss of Lidstrom, but they are still one of the better offensive defenses in the league. Compare

 

Doughty(36)/MItchell(24)        Kronwall(36)/Smith(.50 PPG or around 38 points)

Voynov(20)/Greene(15)          Quincey(26)/White(32)

Martinez(12)/Scuderi(9)  to       Colaiacovo(19) only 50 games on St. Louis/Ericsson(11)

 

Yea, Lidstrom helped Whites numbers, but he's put up similar numbers 26,30 etc in Toronto and Calgary as well. Colaiacovo only played 50 games, Quincey has put up 38 in the past. The Wings defense is also younger as a whole.Kronwall,Quincey, Ericsson are all physical. I don't see a great discrepancy, surely the Kings had Quick play extraordinarily well, but Howard's career numbers are very similar.

 

I agreed with you oh so much until... Ericsson being physical? I love how far he has come and he is so much better now and so much smarter with the puck. Physical however is not a strength of his. It is however something we HAVE been pushing him to be for years now, he is a big guy and he needs to start playing a more physical game



<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Euro_Twins" data-cid="2340916" data-time="1358444044"><p>
 <br />
Ok you're right I will conceive to Bourque, also I bring Vladdy up because he was poised to be better than Lidstrom before the accident</p></blockquote>


Please do not get preggers with Ray Bourque. Ha!

lmao, sorry concede* and would that be such a bad thing? to give birth to a future ray bourque for the wings :P 



#33 fat guy in a maltby jersey

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:19 PM

 
You do know that Kronwall has a much better career PPG than Suter, all while being much more physical, and dare I say it better defensively than Suter?

LOL

#34 Carman

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:21 PM

I agreed with you oh so much until... Ericsson being physical? I love how far he has come and he is so much better now and so much smarter with the puck. Physical however is not a strength of his. It is however something we HAVE been pushing him to be for years now, he is a big guy and he needs to start playing a more physical game

 

He did have 128 hits last year(in 58 games), more than Douglas Murray for example. He needs to be more physical though I agree, but he also needs to block a ton more shots. That's the area he needs to improve in the most, we need him to be a force on the penalty kill, he's showing glimpses but he does have a way to go.



#35 Euro_Twins

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:25 PM

He did have 128 hits last year(in 58 games), more than Douglas Murray for example. He needs to be more physical though I agree, but he also needs to block a ton more shots. That's the area he needs to improve in the most, we need him to be a force on the penalty kill, he's showing glimpses but he does have a way to go.

 

ya but that's like 2.2 hits per game. For a guy his size he should be easily 3-4 hits per game, and yes blocking shots is definitely a weak spot on his resume



#36 Carman

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:29 PM

LOL

Glad that's funny, would like to know the defensive area's Suter is better than Kronwall at. Kronwall is much better in the corners, blocking shots, being physical. Here's a good article backing up my claim that Suter, while a very good defenseman was helped tremendously by the play of Weber.

 

Here's a quick excerpt.

Let's take Suter, Weber's most common partner, as an example. When the two were paired up at 5-on-5 last season 49% of the shots that were attempted during those minutes were attempted by the Predators. When Suter was on the ice without Weber the Predators only attempted 43 percent of the shots.

GF% is simply the percentage of goals scored that belonged to the Predators. When Weber and Suter were out there together over 54 percent of the goals were scored by Nashville. When Suter played without Weber, only 43 percent of the goals were scored by Nashville.

Basically, Suter had a lot of problems when he wasn't paired up with Weber (and perhaps that's something to keep in mind if you're a Wild fan).

 

 

http://www.cbssports...asnt-on-the-ice


Edited by Carman, 17 January 2013 - 03:31 PM.


#37 Euro_Twins

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:48 PM

Glad that's funny, would like to know the defensive area's Suter is better than Kronwall at. Kronwall is much better in the corners, blocking shots, being physical. Here's a good article backing up my claim that Suter, while a very good defenseman was helped tremendously by the play of Weber.

 

Here's a quick excerpt.

 

 

http://www.cbssports...asnt-on-the-ice

 

I want to know Webers stats without Suter. Lets look at kronwalls +/- in 2011/2012 he was a -2, suter was a +15, 2010/2011 kronwall +5, suter +20. I think you get the point, Offensively Suter may not have the advantage, but defensively, he does



#38 Carman

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 03:58 PM

I want to know Webers stats without Suter. Lets look at kronwalls +/- in 2011/2012 he was a -2, suter was a +15, 2010/2011 kronwall +5, suter +20. I think you get the point, Offensively Suter may not have the advantage, but defensively, he does

 

Sorry, I don't put much stock into +/-. But if you want to then you do realize Kronwall has a higher career +/-? But really +/- is a very misleading statistic in my eyes at least. I watch a lot of hockey, and look at all of stats and trends. That's how I come to my opinions. +/- can go beyond a player's control, like goaltending, and simple luck. I personally like noticing giveaways, takeaways, hits, decisions(pinching, commiting to a corner in the defensive zone, first passes etc.)

 

http://www.cbssports...ce-based-system



#39 fat guy in a maltby jersey

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:06 PM

wait, you were serious? you actually believe that krownall is better defensively than suter?

i thought you were joking. "Carman made a very funny joke today".

#40 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:22 PM

wait, you were serious? you actually believe that krownall is better defensively than suter?

i thought you were joking. "Carman made a very funny joke today".

Please add a useful and insightful opinion to the conversation. And I would rather have Kronwall on the Wings than Suter. You're apparently one of those girls that always wants what you can't have...

"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag

 

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